Tech Joker Tech! 5 Teeth set up, Corner 33/33/33, Background bounces and more!

[StevoSuprem0]

Working on it right now actually. Here's what I have so far:


It's kind of gimmicky, but off of the corner combo that ends in the fast restand into teeth, you can do a B2 that hits them right into the teeth.


However, we can do a better 50/50 reset off of this setup with the other overhead, F21.
They instant restand into teeth, and F2 jails them. Now they have to guess whether we go F21 (Overhead hits first then goes into teeth, so ES style block required) or if we do F2>teeth (teeth are not thrown), in which case the low hits 1st and we get a full combo off of both. Also both are safe if they manage to block.
You can also do F2>BF3 in that setup to have ES like timings that change which hits 1st and full combos, but this one doesn't have as much frame advantage.
If you are absolutely certain that they won't see a F2 cancel coming and are going to try to block high/low, F2>MB High Laughing Gas is an incredibly stylish reset. Not yet sure what the optimal combo off of this would be, but you can probably get a lot off of this.

Now there is one way out of this setup: You can jump out.
This seems to suck, except that to jump out, you have to input the jump as soon as the instant restand happens, meaning that if you ended the restand with D2>MB RLG or D2>MB BF3, they get caught and have to eat a full combo. With the MB RLG, you even have so much frame advantage that even if you guessed wrong you can still continue pressuring them in the corner.


EDIT:

Notez, seriously, thank you for this. You did in fact show some ridiculous options and I am finding some stupid shit off of these setups.

Every Joker player needs to start messing with these instant restand unblockables. Between what Notez here showed and some of the stuff I am finding off this (Instant restand ambiguous unblockables midscreen might be possible?! WTF?!), it's starting to look like our corner BS can be applied to the entire stage.

I'm in no way trying to de-value what Notez showed here, but we HAVE had the fast restand stuff in the discussion thread and the new combo thread for a while now using teeth setups into overheads for a reset. What I think is really awesome and totally new (to me, at least) is the mixup of using MB RLG and Crowbar instead of a teeth setup. That is really interesting me because I hadn't considered at all the fact that the fast restand is actually so fast that we can reset them while CANCELLING off of it. Not gonna lie, that kinda blew my mind... kudos Notez. Really smart stuff.

 

[Notez4]

Thank you. Btw! Canceling the d2 into the crowbar requires training. you have to wait till the last second before they fall or else the crowbar will wiff. it took me a lil while to master it

 

[Amplified$hotz]

into

Thank you. Btw! Canceling the d2 into the crowbar requires training. you have to wait till the last second before they fall or else the crowbar will wiff. it took me a lil while to master it

into the stuff wakeups setup where they have to block, then the trouble begins unless they push block of course. Joker has good corner setups mid screen is still a work in progress I think.

 

[Fromundaman]

Thank you. Btw! Canceling the d2 into the crowbar requires training. you have to wait till the last second before they fall or else the crowbar will wiff. it took me a lil while to master it

Yeah I'm having issues with that.


And yeah Steve0, I know we've thrown the idea around, but I've also watched every active Joker on the forums play, and NONE of us have ever incorporated this into our games, much less to this extent.
Canceling off of the D2 into MB laughing gas and crowbar forces them to respect everything after the restand, which makes the ideas we had previously tossed around with D2 into teeth and mixing them up from there so much more dangerous than ever before.

It doesn't matter how long we've known about certain things; it's time to incorporate them into our games. If you've known we were the most ridiculous vortex character of all time for months and didn't work it into your game, shame on you.


This shit motivated me to spend an ungodly amount of time in training mode over the last 2 days. Time to make Joker shine.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Yeah I'm having issues with that.


And yeah Steve0, I know we've thrown the idea around, but I've also watched every active Joker on the forums play, and NONE of us have ever incorporated this into our games, much less to this extent.
Canceling off of the D2 into MB laughing gas and crowbar forces them to respect everything after the restand, which makes the ideas we had previously tossed around with D2 into teeth and mixing them up from there so much more dangerous than ever before.

It doesn't matter how long we've known about certain things; it's time to incorporate them into our games. If you've known we were the most ridiculous vortex character of all time for months and didn't work it into your game, shame on you.


This shit motivated me to spend an ungodly amount of time in training mode over the last 2 days. Time to make Joker shine.

Since a lot of jokers play differently how do you play him mid screen?

 

[Notez4]

The way i figure ... If you play joker well, then your opponents no longer wake up against you. joker is very anti wake up. Now its time we capitalize on this fact.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

The way i figure ... If you play joker well, then your opponents no longer wake up against you. joker is very anti wake up. Now its time we capitalize on this fact.

Yeah but the thing is finding a way to beat people who know the matchup well. That's the goal right?

 

[Notez4]

yes i agree. im not so in tune with matchups though. i just go in and do my thing, find ways around my opponent no matter who they play. so. knowing the matchup against joker... how do you play against a good joker?

 

[Amplified$hotz]

yes i agree. im not so in tune with matchups though. i just go in and do my thing, find ways around my opponent no matter who they play. so. knowing the matchup against joker... how do you play against a good joker?

wakeup all the time unless they're baiting it, zone, block the frame traps, recognize the otg setups, push block like a mad man.

 

[Notez4]

Are you on XBL? I do Fight some who know the matchup, but would like some more exp. and i gotta admit. Whenever i see another mr j player, my blood boils to fight them lol.

 

[Fromundaman]

Sooooo.... Just found a way to make your corner reset even stupider assuming you have meter...

ji2>32>MB RLG>D2>j1 (or J2, but I find j1 easier to connect)>teeth>21>teeth>D2>Bounce cancel F3.

This makes you instant restand on top of teeth about to explode while joker has armor and an overhead. Depending on if you hold it, the teeth can be made to hit 1st or second. Also due to that MB F3/B3 glitch, the teeth also do more damage in this setup.




EDIT:
Amplified$hotz
Also midscreen it depends on who my opponent is, since it's easier to get in against some characters than others, but unless I can make them approach me, my main goal is always the same: Get in, then reset them over and over again. Absolutely never let them breath.

I just started seeing this differently yesterday actually, but I try to think of Joker now in the neutral game as a character who shuts out zones of play.
What I mean by this is he just shuts down as many options as he can with traps and long as fuck hitboxes (Sheeit, I mean just throw far teeth and do either a J3 or D2 and just look at how much of the screen you just shut down), then continuously change the areas you are covering, since Joker has the tools to cover every part of the screen pretty much in hitboxes (Except that corner of the screen where Hawkgirl is flying, throwing those damn maces, or people who crouch while shooting shit, like GA), just not all at the same time.

Basically, I want to make you play "I want to be the boshi" every time I start putting pressure on you, and if you don't know the exact spot to be the constantly moving "fuck you zone", then I get a setup, which now looks like it is going to pretty much always turns into a reset.

The real issue shows up when characters are able to stop him from getting started, but when he does, he will hunt you down.


I think we've been accidentally downplaying this character hard.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Are you on XBL? I do Fight some who know the matchup, but would like some more exp. and i gotta admit. Whenever i see another mr j player, my blood boils to fight them lol.

Yeah but my connection is just random so I don't know. Plus my joker isn't that good I just abuse the fact that online no one knows his tricks so I haven't really incorporated anything advanced in my game. I just use cheap tricks lol.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Sooooo.... Just found a way to make your corner reset even stupider assuming you have meter...

ji2>32>MB RLG>D2>j1 (or J2, but I find j1 easier to connect)>teeth>21>teeth>D2>Bounce cancel F3.

This makes you instant restand on top of teeth about to explode while joker has armor and an overhead. Depending on if you hold it, the teeth can be made to hit 1st or second. Also due to that MB F3/B3 glitch, the teeth also do more damage in this setup.




EDIT:
Amplified$hotz
Also midscreen it depends on who my opponent is, since it's easier to get in against some characters than others, but unless I can make them approach me, my main goal is always the same: Get in, then reset them over and over again. Absolutely never let them breath.

I just started seeing this differently yesterday actually, but I try to think of Joker now in the neutral game as a character who shuts out zones of play.
What I mean by this is he just shuts down as many options as he can with traps and long as fuck hitboxes (Sheeit, I mean just throw far teeth and do either a J3 or D2 and just look at how much of the screen you just shut down), then continuously change the areas you are covering, since Joker has the tools to cover every part of the screen pretty much in hitboxes (Except that corner of the screen where Hawkgirl is flying, throwing those damn maces, or people who crouch while shooting shit, like GA), just not all at the same time.

Basically, I want to make you play "I want to be the boshi" every time I start putting pressure on you, and if you don't know the exact spot to be the constantly moving "fuck you zone", then I get a setup, which now looks like it is going to pretty much always turns into a reset.

The real issue shows up when characters are able to stop him from getting started, but when he does, he will hunt you down.


I think we've been accidentally downplaying this character hard.

Characters that take away his jump 2 like Green Lantern or Aquaman are bad. But did you know that if you duck death strokes quick fire you can punish with gunshot. I learned it from playing with AI on very hard.LOL.

 

[Fromundaman]

Characters that take away his jump 2 like Green Lantern or Aquaman are bad. But did you know that if you duck death strokes quick fire you can punish with gunshot. I learned it from playing with AI on very hard.LOL.

I actually disagree. I don't have enough experience to say for aquaman, but GL is exactly the same as anyone else. You just have to be careful getting in, but you can set yourself up with D2 cancels, which lets you start your pressure. Lift is good for taking away jump ins, but we have some great ground tools as well, and it makes him guess whether we're going to jump or not. If he guesses wrong or even just blocks, we're in and the pressure/guessing games start.

On top of that his wakeup isn't that good (Assuming wakeups matter in light of this recent tech, or recent for me anyway), so you can loop him over and over without even doing fancy traps like this.


Now admittedly, he does do a better job of keeping us out (Although we have limited counter-zoning abilities), and he too has 50/50s on wakeup, but damn ours are so much better. We actually have a chance of eventually guessing right. GL, on the other hand, needs to be played by a minor deity to escape our traps.

Not saying we rape him or anything, but I definitely don't see GL as a bad MU at all.




I sadly don't know the Deathstroke matchup well, so I can't say much.

 

[rehti]

@Fromundaman you should contact @Catnip_Her0 so he can record what you have to show because while I do understand your strings, it's always better when we can visualize them.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I can do any recording that's needed as well.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Have

I actually disagree. I don't have enough experience to say for aquaman, but GL is exactly the same as anyone else. You just have to be careful getting in, but you can set yourself up with D2 cancels, which lets you start your pressure. Lift is good for taking away jump ins, but we have some great ground tools as well, and it makes him guess whether we're going to jump or not. If he guesses wrong or even just blocks, we're in and the pressure/guessing games start.

On top of that his wakeup isn't that good (Assuming wakeups matter in light of this recent tech, or recent for me anyway), so you can loop him over and over without even doing fancy traps like this.


Now admittedly, he does do a better job of keeping us out (Although we have limited counter-zoning abilities), and he too has 50/50s on wakeup, but damn ours are so much better. We actually have a chance of eventually guessing right. GL, on the other hand, needs to be played by a minor deity to escape our traps.

Not saying we rape him or anything, but I definitely don't see GL as a bad MU at all.




I sadly don't know the Deathstroke matchup well, so I can't say much.

Joker relies on a lot of thinking. Zoning is what kind of hurts the character IMO.

 

[Fromundaman]

Aight Steve0, I'll try to send you whatever I have. There's no way to send training mode recordings via PSN is there?

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Just wondering what does this character need to move him up the tier list? An infinite, a glitch, more unblock able setups?What?

 

[Fromundaman]

Just wondering what does this character need to move him up the tier list? An infinite, a glitch, more unblock able setups?What?

I think he just got what he needed. Now he needs representation.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

I think he just got what he needed. Now he needs representation.

Yeah. Joker players shouldn't be afraid to have high expectations with their character. Because ya never know.

 

[Notez4]

i never downplay joker. btw Fromundaman i know that set up too, i just dont like using 2 meters at a time

 

[Notez4]

Amplified$hotz thats cool man i dont necessarily want to fight your joker, i just want to fight some one knowledgeable of the matchup

 

[Fromundaman]

Understandable.

That said it could be worth it, and definitely another retarded tool to add.
I'm trying to see if I can't get it to work midscreen, because if so it would be a lot more worth it there.


Also, just found what looks like a glitch, but I'm not yet sure if I can do anything off of it.

That said, if midscreen you do j2>32(1st hit)>MB RLG>D2>far teeth>j1>far teeth>21(1st hit)>far teeth>F23>flower with just the right timing, the game can't seem to figure out what to do with it. The enemy stays suspended in mid air for a second doing the animation for getting hit with the flower but don't drop right away.
On auto block, the training CPU is able to block a ji3 or D3 from this, but it really looks like I should be able to hit them right before they hit the ground. I'm going to keep messing with this.

 

[Catnip_Her0]

yes OPTIONS. Thats what my video was all about. i just wanted to give some jokers out there more options other than standing reset after standing reset. Thanks for the feed back guys and Catnip_Her0 i might hit you up for that. i have more things out there that i just didnt how in the vid.

yea hit me up whenever so we can get your magic out there.