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Match-up Discussion Joker Matchup Discussion

Fromundaman

I write too much.
I definitely agree on lifelead Joker being ridiculously good defensively (I've mentioned this before). Joker has a moveset that is extremely well suited for playing defensively, but without the lifelead there is very little reason for most characters to allow you to play defensively.

EDIT:

Steve0, what do you mean Zod has 50/50s? He has no standing overheads, so blocking low in close range makes it all reactable. The 50/50s only exist when trait is out, but they are dirty as hell (Or the crossup shenanigans with Zod balls, but those are moree gimmicky than anything.).
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I definitely agree on lifelead Joker being ridiculously good defensively (I've mentioned this before). Joker has a moveset that is extremely well suited for playing defensively, but without the lifelead there is very little reason for most characters to allow you to play defensively.

EDIT:

Steve0, what do you mean Zod has 50/50s? He has no standing overheads, so blocking low in close range makes it all reactable. The 50/50s only exist when trait is out, but they are dirty as hell (Or the crossup shenanigans with Zod balls, but those are moree gimmicky than anything.).
Yeah, I was referring to when he has trait out and is in your face. Pretty much everything I was saying refers to trait being out. That said, he does have several overheads without trait, but I don't think any of them are starters. Definitely has some in the middle/end of a few strings though.
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
Just wondering here,but is their gonna be a time where all the match-up info for each chars is gonna be compile together and put up in the spoilers on the first page?
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
That will probably necessitate making a new thread.
The other matchup/video thread has more information throughout, though again, not in the OP.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Oh ok cool, you know its a lot easier on everyone if it was in the OP.
Yup. I've been considering making a new one and doing it myself, but I can't change anything on these pre-existing ones. One is by Cat, who was banned from the site I believe, and I'm unsure how active Karried is, who is the OP on this one.
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
Yup. I've been considering making a new one and doing it myself, but I can't change anything on these pre-existing ones. One is by Cat, who was banned from the site I believe, and I'm unsure how active Karried is, who is the OP on this one.
Wow Cat got ban that sucks and was gonna tag Karried and see if he'll do it,but I don't know if he will respond.
 

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Lol I am so late to the party but I didn't realize you can parry Bane's MB Venom Uppercut (The Drop Kick Follow-Up). I always assumed you couldn't since it looks like an airborne attack so I never tried it.
Guess NRS forgot to change the properties since they pretty much took his b3 and f2d3 animation lol.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Lol I am so late to the party but I didn't realize you can parry Bane's MB Venom Uppercut (The Drop Kick Follow-Up). I always assumed you couldn't since it looks like an airborne attack so I never tried it.
Guess NRS forgot to change the properties since they pretty much took his b3 and f2d3 animation lol.
Well the hitbox does start while he is grounded, so it's not a complete oversight. Makes to option select parry a decent option when you are trying to stand up against him though, since it covers that and double punch, and if you connect it eats some decent Venum time.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Damn, I didn't think to try to use parry to wake up against Bane. I may have to do that to make him at least SOMEWHAT respect my wakeup...
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Damn, I didn't think to try to use parry to wake up against Bane. I may have to do that to make him at least SOMEWHAT respect my wakeup...
Don't wake up with parry, just block. You can't parry the command grab anyway.

The only time you'd wanna wakeup against bane is when he's on debuff or he you have a good lifelead and he's almost done with his first lifebar or at his second, I sometimes wakeup time after time with flower so I can basically trade 7% double punch for 9% flower on lvl 1 in order to start the next round with an advantage.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Don't wake up with parry, just block. You can't parry the command grab anyway.

The only time you'd wanna wakeup against bane is when he's on debuff or he you have a good lifelead and he's almost done with his first lifebar or at his second, I sometimes wakeup time after time with flower so I can basically trade 7% double punch for 9% flower on lvl 1 in order to start the next round with an advantage.
Huh, didn't know flower did better damage.

This is useful stuff to know since we don't have a Bane player here to practice against.
A few more questions:

What do you do against armored D2>command grab on wakeup though?
Can you backdash any of his anti-wakeup tech?
Any tips to waste out his venom time?
Is his only invincible wakeup the jump thing, and is it punishable on block/whiff without being MBed?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Huh, didn't know flower did better damage.

This is useful stuff to know since we don't have a Bane player here to practice against.
A few more questions:

What do you do against armored D2>command grab on wakeup though?
Can you backdash any of his anti-wakeup tech?
Any tips to waste out his venom time?
Is his only invincible wakeup the jump thing, and is it punishable on block/whiff without being MBed?
D2 command grab can be jumped on reaction, you need to practice learning to identify and react to the animation.

Anti wakeup tech?

Use teeth a lot and mb crowbar, make sure you're not forced to block a charge because after that his double punch is at max range and you need to move or block it. Pushblock him once or twice when he reaches lvl 2-3, punish whiffed moves with D2, use far teeth from afar and closer ones as he gets closer. His VU is invincible but it doesn't matter since he will always have venom, on withdrawal it is invincible I believe, full combo on block if not mbed, d1 crowbar as a punish if you block the MB one from up close.

You can also backdash the dropkick and punish with a J2 combo I think, I need to test this and see if they just use the normal one, if it'l still punish or it's risky going for the max damage one.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Awesome thanks!

And sorry, by anti-wakeup tech I meant the wakeup guessing game with the armored uppercut and armored grab he can do to you after a knockdown.
Is it just a guess right thing, or can I backdash out of this?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Awesome thanks!

And sorry, by anti-wakeup tech I meant the wakeup guessing game with the armored uppercut and armored grab he can do to you after a knockdown.
Is it just a guess right thing, or can I backdash out of this?
Guess right, the command grab can be neutral jumped on wakeup so it's a risk to him as well.

I'd rather be hit by a double punch then tech roll and J3 backwards depending on how the bane player plays.
 

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
16 bit baits the uppercut mb an does a mb b3 an waits for bane to land an gets full combo punish, our backdash isn't as good as catwomans but the same concept should apply we just may have to try this from a bit farther away
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
16 bit baits the uppercut mb an does a mb b3 an waits for bane to land an gets full combo punish, our backdash isn't as good as catwomans but the same concept should apply we just may have to try this from a bit farther away
Yeah I was just thinking about this the other day. Seems like a good way to punish him.
And I think utilizing option select parry at times is a good move though. You're not risking losing out on damage since a bunch of Bane's options are safe, if you mess it up (parry late) you just block anyways, you're vulnerable to all of the same things on block and parry, and you get to eat some time off his clock if you land it and get the pressure off you.
 
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Fromundaman

I write too much.
16 bit baits the uppercut mb an does a mb b3 an waits for bane to land an gets full combo punish, our backdash isn't as good as catwomans but the same concept should apply we just may have to try this from a bit farther away
Can Bane go to level 3 to get through the armor as the kick falls?

Either way this seems like a good option.



On a side note, since we're sharing general matchup tips:

Against Shazam, you can punish the elbow drop string with 11>RLG unless he cancels it after the 1st hit.
You can punish atlas torpedo with B1.
If you knock him down under a TV/any other suspended object you can put a bomb on, placing teeth on the ground then blowing up the interactible covers all of Shazam's wakeup options.
 

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
True but I think he doesn't actually have any gaps. Even though it deceptively looks like it sometimes. He has a shit ton of advantage on almost all of his hits. B21 is parryable and b23 is backdashable, most likely parryable but with backdash you run the risk of getting double punched
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Can Bane go to level 3 to get through the armor as the kick falls?

Either way this seems like a good option.



On a side note, since we're sharing general matchup tips:

Against Shazam, you can punish the elbow drop string with 11>RLG unless he cancels it after the 1st hit.
You can punish atlas torpedo with B1.
If you knock him down under a TV/any other suspended object you can put a bomb on, placing teeth on the ground then blowing up the interactible covers all of Shazam's wakeup options.
The armor will have worn off after the kick. Also, armor level 3 is only any different in that he is immune to projectiles during his specials, correct? So it wouldn't matter anyways if he tried to pump up, other than reducing damage.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
The armor will have worn off after the kick. Also, armor level 3 is only any different in that he is immune to projectiles during his specials, correct? So it wouldn't matter anyways if he tried to pump up, other than reducing damage.
No it also breaks armor, even when you're blocking with said armor on (Only really applies to Lex). This is why I hate that MU as Lex.