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Match-Up Discussion - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage Matchup Thread

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
@Asodimazze you where saying you think his throw is plus 4 or 5 but I think it's only plus 2 possibly plus 3

But I need you HC plays try this set Shinnok to wake up Hellsparks and see if you can get F3 to beat it

The max I'm getting I'm getting is a trade I'll keep trying, Shinnoks Soarks are 9 frames in trading with 11 si 9-11 =+2, but maybe my execution is off, but I'm confident is not +5
 
What are some tips for the Kotal matchup with A-List? I thought for sure the matchup was in Kotal's favor, but most of you guys put it as 5-5. I always find myself running away throwing forceballs. War God is especially hard. Any tips would be appreciated
 

freerf245

11 11 11 11
What are some tips for the Kotal matchup with A-List? I thought for sure the matchup was in Kotal's favor, but most of you guys put it as 5-5. I always find myself running away throwing forceballs. War God is especially hard. Any tips would be appreciated
Agreed. I really struggle against war god. I'm outplayed in footsies and the ex overhead sword blows through all my pressure.
 

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
@Asodimazze you where saying you think his throw is plus 4 or 5 but I think it's only plus 2 possibly plus 3

But I need you HC plays try this set Shinnok to wake up Hellsparks and see if you can get F3 to beat it

The max I'm getting I'm getting is a trade I'll keep trying, Shinnoks Soarks are 9 frames in trading with 11 si 9-11 =+2, but maybe my execution is off, but I'm confident is not +5
You might be right and maybe I don't exactly remember how much he is plus, I tested it many months ago. I'll try it later
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
What do you guys think about the matchup Fisticuffs vs Tempest?
Today I fought a great Tempest Lao and I got mopped. I usually had not great problems vs Tempest, but this one used the string 11212 with a timing that destroys every single one of my armored wakeups in the corner, so I simply couldn't wake up 90% times.
I think KL outclasses FC at almost everything. Opinions/tips?
 
What are some tips for the Kotal matchup with A-List? I thought for sure the matchup was in Kotal's favor, but most of you guys put it as 5-5. I always find myself running away throwing forceballs. War God is especially hard. Any tips would be appreciated
kotal has a hard time dealing with zoning chars, i think this is one of the few match ups jc could zone out of. his sword throw can be low profiled by d4 (not sure about the ex). his db2 (low sword) and db1 (overhead sword) are both f3 punishable, db2 a little bit tight but either way you can reversal shadow kick. if he starts armoring out of your strings with ex overhead sword, you could stuff it with JC's 11 or 12 strings (even if your execution is not very crispy), provided you skrc'ed out of f3, 114, 333, 12,... basically almost every string except for 113. as for the overhead and low mixups, you should take note that the overhead is faster than the low sword, but easier said than done. thats all i got. hope this helps
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
@FireBreather @Asodimazze

Pretty sure throw is +5, I have it written down at home though so I can't be 100% sure at the moment as I don't remember exactly.
Did you check this because I only honestly can't beat Shinnok Hellsoarks with F3 I should have a 3 frame window to do so if it's +5 and j can't get it

I can get 1 frame links relatively easy but in 2 days of trying I should hit a 3 frame atleast once

But your execution is more on point than mine so maybe you should get it
 
Could somebody give me some tips on dealing with Takeda's ex kunai? I've been told that they can be backdashed, but every time I try it with JC, the kunai hit him during recovery, and the alterable timing makes things harder.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
I'm beginning to think Shaolin Kung Jin is a bad MU for SD

Since Kung Jin can throw that low anywhere on the screen without worrying about anything hitting him

He easily out Footsies cage, hit Cage with normals outside cages D4 F3 range

Forces Cage to jump and with KJs tons of AAs, A2As and Tripgaurds outs a read for Cage to jump

On okie KJ can be in the perfect 50/50 range where Ex nutpunch can't reach at all

Many more points too I'm missing too

Oh you can Rx SK his low disk toss because he stays low
 
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Dja_Homies

Kaz...... I'm already a Fiddle.
I'm beginning to think Shaolin Kung Jin is a bad MU for SD

Since Kung Jin can throw that low anywhere on the screen without worrying about anything hitting him

He easily out Footsies cage, hit Cage with normals outside cages D4 F3 range

Forces Cage to jump and with KJs tons of AAs, A2As and Tripgaurds outs a read for Cage to jump

On okie KJ can be in the perfect 50/50 range where Ex nutpunch can't reach at all

Many more points too I'm missing too

Oh you can Rx SK his low disk toss because he stays low
So far what I have played the shaolin mu. I played slayer for a few games at wnf so I'm mainly basing it off that and what I remember. I think that mu is 5-5 atm
If he keeps that distance for a good 50/50 you can wake up mimic kick since it has a seperate hitbox and will hit them before they touch you.
The low takes patience and a well thought out mimic kick or ex shadowkick for Johnny to knock him down and get in.
Jumping really isn't an option against jinn so I agree that if you're forced to jump you are playing jinns game.
Some strings to ex low chakrum have a gap on return so you can delay ex nutpunch to absorb the hit and continue your combo. It takes timing though.
string into Reloads are quite good since his armor doesn't get him much while you get two more shadows for the neutral.
Be wary of sky drop into d1 ex low chakrum. I've only seen slayer use it but its so good to bait counterpokes but of course there's a gap.
All in all my opinion on this mu is 5-5 at the moment. Stunt double has good counterzoning options and jinns armor options don't lead to much besides knocking down Johnny. Any further points you have? I enjoy discussing mus with you.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
So far what I have played the shaolin mu. I played slayer for a few games at wnf so I'm mainly basing it off that and what I remember. I think that mu is 5-5 atm
If he keeps that distance for a good 50/50 you can wake up mimic kick since it has a seperate hitbox and will hit them before they touch you.
The low takes patience and a well thought out mimic kick or ex shadowkick for Johnny to knock him down and get in.
Jumping really isn't an option against jinn so I agree that if you're forced to jump you are playing jinns game.
Some strings to ex low chakrum have a gap on return so you can delay ex nutpunch to absorb the hit and continue your combo. It takes timing though.
string into Reloads are quite good since his armor doesn't get him much while you get two more shadows for the neutral.
Be wary of sky drop into d1 ex low chakrum. I've only seen slayer use it but its so good to bait counterpokes but of course there's a gap.
All in all my opinion on this mu is 5-5 at the moment. Stunt double has good counterzoning options and jinns armor options don't lead to much besides knocking down Johnny. Any further points you have? I enjoy discussing mus with you.
When I was talking about wake ups I meant when I had no mimics

But I'll take your word man, I just feel really uncomfortable not being to abuse my Footsies
 
Could somebody give me some tips on dealing with Takeda's ex kunai? I've been told that they can be backdashed, but every time I try it with JC, the kunai hit him during recovery, and the alterable timing makes things harder.
you could jump over him or jump back, sometimes you can outright exshadowkick him if you read his delayed ex kunai (it travels fast so it will just absorb 1 hit).
 

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
Excuse me if this matchup has already been but I want to know how SD and A-list Johnny fares in the matchup with Erron Black. I want to know what my options are and tech specifically for this matchup if any. I would greatly appreciate the advice.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Matchups i have an issue with

Df Liu (zoning) (fireballs all day and b2 to stop jump ins or lowblocking his fireballs)

Goro

Kotal war god

If anyone has some tips it would be appreciated.
 
Matchups i have an issue with

Df Liu (zoning) (fireballs all day and b2 to stop jump ins or lowblocking his fireballs)

Goro

Kotal war god

If anyone has some tips it would be appreciated.
Kotal can be zoned easily and because of 1,2 he cannot wake up. The only thing you really have to worry about is his pokes and if you are on point with your cancels you don't even have to worry about those.

I think the irony of goro being a rough matchup for cage is hilarious.
 

Kompetitor

Johnny Cage Specialist
Matchups i have an issue with

Df Liu (zoning) (fireballs all day and b2 to stop jump ins or lowblocking his fireballs)

Goro

Kotal war god

If anyone has some tips it would be appreciated.
Those are my worst mu problems too, add in Special Forces sonya to that, she outzones me baaaad. For kotal, i just watch out for ex overhead sword, then make my move cause that destroys anything i try to do. For liu, i just save my meter for well timed ex shadow kicks to get in and stay on top of him, dont wanna let him get his pressure started. Goro...i have no answers for because i get mopped by him
 

EGP Awesomo

R.T.S.D
So Im getting rocked by my buddies Mournful Kitana, anybody have tips for the MU? I tried to counter with SD, but it feels like it's even worse. Tips?
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
So Im getting rocked by my buddies Mournful Kitana, anybody have tips for the MU? I tried to counter with SD, but it feels like it's even worse. Tips?
I also have a friend starting to use her and it's a pain in the ass.

The diagonal projectile she throws while jumping is not very damaging, but really annoying.
Don't try to jump it, it can work but most of the times you are going to get hit. Find the correct timing and run towards her to go under it and full punish.
I think the ex version can't be crouched as tanya's ex tonfa, so if she throws it correctly you have to take her pressure/throw :/
Also take into account that you can neutralize all her wake-up game low profiling, so when you get in, go ham. Watch out for her shadowkick, it's extremely fast and safe. Your d4 is your friend here.
 

Kompetitor

Johnny Cage Specialist
So Im getting rocked by my buddies Mournful Kitana, anybody have tips for the MU? I tried to counter with SD, but it feels like it's even worse. Tips?
I fight her like regular kitana, play patient and wait to ex shadowkick your way in. I prefer fighting mournful because you dont have to worry about the trade vs your forceballs, and you can jump at her without worrying about getting full combo'd (only eat about 5%)
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Okay since the beta changed I am having a tell if tougher time with Mileena than I did before with SD

Before I thought it was 5-5 maybe edged to SD

But man I'm really feeling a struggle of doing all 3 factors

Getting out clones safely
Getting pass her Zoning
Getting in F3 range

I know her buffs are only early but Its feeling an indicator of an new bad MU for SD
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Okay since the beta changed I am having a tell if tougher time with Mileena than I did before with SD

Before I thought it was 5-5 maybe edged to SD

But man I'm really feeling a struggle of doing all 3 factors

Getting out clones safely
Getting pass her Zoning
Getting in F3 range

I know her buffs are only early but Its feeling an indicator of an new bad MU for SD
I have a Mileena training partner and the matchup is quite tough for Fisticuffs.
With the new Mileena even worse. She wins from distance, has very good footsie game with b12, and now up close she has less problems thanks to her new 6f d1.