Match-Up Discussion - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage Matchup Thread

[Wigy]

Anybody have any tips for flame fist liu kang? I honestly believe it may be Johnny's worst matchup in the game

Christ tell me about it.

Only mu knowledge i figured is if you crouch wmp he cant special cancel from it and you can check him with a d4 although i think hes plus here for some unknown reason.

 

[Asodimazze]

Christ tell me about it.

Only mu knowledge i figured is if you crouch wmp he cant special cancel from it and you can check him with a d4 although i think hes plus here for some unknown reason.

From my test he is around +4...not a good situation really

 

[Wigy]

From my test he is around +4...not a good situation really

yeah b12 blows up literally everything after that. So So Stupid.

So better to crouch until the last hit and take the special i guess. Liu is unbelievably braindead in this variation. Very aggravating.

 

[mrKrucifix]

Anybody have any tips for flame fist liu kang? I honestly believe it may be Johnny's worst matchup in the game

Here's a set i did vs a FF LK main a while ago. It's not perfect gameplay, but you can see some of the options you have in the match up:

D4 beats or evades all of LK's wake up options. Beats fireballs and parry, and goes under the back fist and the flying kick.

After the rapid punch you have to guess. If LK cancels into fireball or low fireball, you have to block, but you get a free F3 punish. If he Dragon's Roar (backfist) is safe on block, but you can either jump over it, or D4 under it. Same for the parry.

The real trick is to condition them with the low enough so that they feel the parry isn't a good option for them. Once you know they're going to respect your D3 or D4, you can attempt more traditional JC overhead/pressure stuff.

JC can only win the zoning war at full screen. All LK has to do is take a step in, and then he can time his fireballs to go under Johnny's. This is a match up you want to try to play at the mid - close range if you can help it.

 

[crosstalk]

Where do you guys think Cage's bad matchups stand in MKXL?

 

[Scott The Scot]

Where do you guys think Cage's bad matchups stand in MKXL?

I've heard some more well-known players say that A-List loses to Piercing.

 

[Wigy]

Where do you guys think Cage's bad matchups stand in MKXL?

I honestly find cage struggles against goro.

Piercing definitely seems to be bad if anything. Zoning and b12 really make me struggle.

A list seems to do worse than sd against d'vora for me also, she can shut down run in's badly and you cant land any projectiles eveeer. She has total air control, basically complete neutral control unless you're in her face as f3 and her f1 are pretty much the same for range and hitbox, (though her hurtbox is better) but her pokes, jump in, zoning, and oki are way better.

You could make a strong case for cutthroat beating cage too. He can totally check zoning, has safe 6frame armoured reversal to shut down pressure or his combo starting ball. His d4 shuts down your f3/d4 and he can whiff punish d4 with his f4 with ease. He has total air control and his corner game is a nightmare.

Any character with a strong fast poke gives cage issues cause his pokes are slow or dodgy.

 

[jaylee777]

Cage definitely loses to goro imo.
Goro, Flame fist liu, and sub are probably his toughest matchups

I think boneshaper shinnok does well vs cage.
The fact that dvorah can run under forceball makes the matchup kinda difficult

Also a lot of the characters with the d4 that looks like they're doing a half split (like kano's, sub's, kotals, cassie's, etc) seem to give cage some trouble.

Oh yeah, probably mystic Ermac too

 

[Wigy]

Forgot about flamefist, that matchup is total fucking ass.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Forgot about flamefist, that matchup is total fucking ass.

Lol yeah I played Orangutan today. I need to hit the lab for that one lol.

 

[crosstalk]

Ronin seems like a disadvantaged MU.

How about F/T vs. Cage? Lackey can be annoying.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Ronin seems like a disadvantaged MU.

How about F/T vs. Cage? Lackey can be annoying.

I don't find many Ronins so I couldn't tell you about Ronin.

F/T feels like a winning MU but barely a 6-4. SD Mimics going through Ferra toss and such helps Cage in this MU.

 

[kelevra]

I got bopped badly by @DOCK yesterday evening. Never got destroyed this bad by a Ronin/SR and im kinda curious what you guys usually do against the SR unblockables? Sometimes i landed a NJP or a EXSK on a read but i didnt really find a solid way out, let alone an option to "just take a hit without guaranteeing my opponent a combo"
Ofc it wasnt all on that, i got outplayed big like 90% of the time and his defense was incredible aswell.
Ronin on the other hand is something else, have just no idea what to do with those nasty strings and +frames the variation has.

 

[Asodimazze]

I got bopped badly by @DOCK yesterday evening. Never got destroyed this bad by a Ronin/SR and im kinda curious what you guys usually do against the SR unblockables? Sometimes i landed a NJP or a EXSK on a read but i didnt really find a solid way out, let alone an option to "just take a hit without guaranteeing my opponent a combo"
Ofc it wasnt all on that, i got outplayed big like 90% of the time and his defense was incredible aswell.
Ronin on the other hand is something else, have just no idea what to do with those nasty strings and +frames the variation has.

I play Dock quite often, he knows the matchup perfectly...definetely a tough opponent.
Against Ronin I just try to bait him into mistakes using fullscreen forceballs and playing him out of his best range. I stay very close to him or extremely far...when cornered the only escape against his b11 block pressure is ex shadowkick, if you don't have a bar just stay there and block until the pushback gives you some space.

I never played Cage against his Shiray Ryu, but there is no safe way to escape the unblockable setups anyway. You got to guess the timing at which he will detonate the kunais and either jump away or just stay there and block. Against some setups a good ex wake up can also save you.

 

[Saltea Mike]

I've played SR takeda a bit.

If you think that takeda is going for an HTB setup (ex kunai into JIK/f2 or whatever else) you can try NJP/NJK or instant JI4 since it has this strange hitbox which hits him immidiately. Unless he's going to explode his kunais instantly there are options to run from it.

Problem begins if he's just going for safe pressure exploding his ex kunais instantly and being +32 on block from it. Definite true blockstring.

Altough when you playing A-list get SR takeda in the corner - game over. He has NO MEANS of escaping a good JC pressure in the corner. Tries to wakeup armor? Make sure to break his armor canceling 12(1). Mix it up with d4, throws, f2, 113 - he's a goner.

 

[OwtQue]

I need somebody to explain how to do this. I can do it but I can NOT do it twice with one stamina bar. I feel like I'm pressing the buttons as fast as I can, lol. Is there an alternate way to buffer the inputs or make it easier? I understand this is pretty much the key to A-List so it does me no good if I can't do it fast/tight enough. Thanks in advance!

 

[Scott The Scot]

Hmmm you're probably running too much lol. Maybe try thinking of the it like one well timed motion. [F,F+BLK,1]14... If that makes sense to you

Speed isn't the key, too fast and you just mess up. When you do it all smoothly like a hot knife in butter then you'll get dem crispy cancels.

 

[Asodimazze]

I need somebody to explain how to do this. I can do it but I can NOT do it twice with one stamina bar. I feel like I'm pressing the buttons as fast as I can, lol. Is there an alternate way to buffer the inputs or make it easier? I understand this is pretty much the key to A-List so it does me no good if I can't do it fast/tight enough. Thanks in advance!

There is no particular trick really...just try to input SKRC motion at the very end of the buffer window (which is different for each string), doing this should make it easier for you to save some stamina.

Practice makes perfect, A-List requires a lot of work but it's rewarding

 

[IrishMantis]

Hmmmm I see a lot of people here say Goro but I don't really see it but I have also never played a super good Goro but I am interested in finding out

 

[Rager Da Prince]

I'm starting to think Kano beats cage 6-4.

 

[Malices' World]

I honestly find cage struggles against goro.

Piercing definitely seems to be bad if anything. Zoning and b12 really make me struggle.

A list seems to do worse than sd against d'vora for me also, she can shut down run in's badly and you cant land any projectiles eveeer. She has total air control, basically complete neutral control unless you're in her face as f3 and her f1 are pretty much the same for range and hitbox, (though her hurtbox is better) but her pokes, jump in, zoning, and oki are way better.

You could make a strong case for cutthroat beating cage too. He can totally check zoning, has safe 6frame armoured reversal to shut down pressure or his combo starting ball. His d4 shuts down your f3/d4 and he can whiff punish d4 with his f4 with ease. He has total air control and his corner game is a nightmare.

Any character with a strong fast poke gives cage issues cause his pokes are slow or dodgy.

I just cried a little by reading this ._. it's hurts watching kano check you w/ a d4 or d3 all we want is too just get a little pressure happy. ^_^ but nooo we no longer live that world anymore. (At least against kano and D'avorah that is)

 

[xSamuel]

Having some trouble with Impostor Shinnok. Don't know when I can AA his TP or when I have to read it and NJP. Any tips?

 

[Saltea Mike]

Having some trouble with Impostor Shinnok. Don't know when I can AA his TP or when I have to read it and NJP. Any tips?

Standing 1 or 1,1 on reaction as an anti-air when you see him port. You can even try to ex nutpunch on reaction aswell. Quite frankly it's all about reacting to it.

After you get hit with his trans - if he doesn't have bar it's more likely he'll go overhead since it launches.

 

[IrishMantis]

Having some trouble with Impostor Shinnok. Don't know when I can AA his TP or when I have to read it and NJP. Any tips?

If he does it instantly S1

If he dies from a high ground D2 (as S1 whiffs)

 

[Udun]

I have the feeling that A-List vs Goro is a 5:5 MU. Do you really think Goro is in advantage?