General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[Wrath0594]

D4!!!

 

[Rodney Quillz]

D4!!!

I'm telling you when you try that against the likes of jax,sub zero,kotal Kahn and Shinnok you are going to have a sad day.

 

[kelevra]

Have any of you looked into the difference between f3-bf4RC and f3[4]RC?
It seems that with f3-bf4RC it cancels into the run cancel earlier and gives more frame advantage or is that just a false impression?

 

[Wrath0594]

I'm telling you when you try that against the likes of jax,sub zero,kotal Kahn and Shinnok you are going to have a sad day.

What makes them any different? I've anti aired everyone with that move easily.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Have any of you looked into the difference between f3-bf4RC and f3[4]RC?
It seems that with f3-bf4RC it cancels into the run cancel earlier and gives more frame advantage or is that just a false impression?

For starters F3SKRC gains meter for canceling out of Shadow Kick so there's that. I'll look into F3SKRC, post about it later on.

 

[Phosferrax]

Guys s2 is a great anti air vs jumping punches offline. In SD if you have a shadow do s2 rising shadow and in A-List do s2 delayed nutpunch. He cant really get anything off it in Fisticuffs though

Fisticuffs is gdlk, my favourite variation. B121 staggers are amazing with the buff active. Having a mid hitting, armour breaking stagger string is so good and it just farms meter.

I'm currently stuck between only using the shadows on block confirms (mostly) or using them for damage. They are so useful as a pressure tool instead of raw damage because you get loads of chip and meter from them. I will never use a bar of meter and shadows in a combo unless it will kill.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Sooooo @kelevra it tuns out F3SKRC is pretty godlike. You can still cancel on whiff while buffering the SKRC and now it grants enough frame advantage on block so F24 jails on block. So yeah, enough incentive for a anyone that picks up A List to grind out these cancels.

 

[Phosferrax]

@BoricuaHeat does f3skrc use more stamina then f34 rc?

 

[BoricuaHeat]

@BoricuaHeat does f3skrc use more stamina then f34 rc?

Same amount spent if your execution is perfect.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

What makes them any different? I've anti aired everyone with that move easily.

The angle on their jumping punches allows them to hit you

 

[kelevra]

Sooooo @kelevra it tuns out F3SKRC is pretty godlike. You can still cancel on whiff while buffering the SKRC and now it grants enough frame advantage on block so F24 jails on block. So yeah, enough incentive for a anyone that picks up A List to grind out these cancels.

Damn, sure as hell gonna unlearn the Muscle Memory with the f34RC.
Thanks for doing the work in the lab.

//edit:
did some testing myself and even kung lao's ex spin set to reversal doesnt get through this
some further testing shows that this actually combos into f4 on hit by just dashcanceling instead of running.
pretty usefull for situations where you backdashed a jumpin and are going for the f3 whiffpunish on your opponents string so you get a solid 26% out of it.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Damn, sure as hell gonna unlearn the Muscle Memory with the f34RC.
Thanks for doing the work in the lab.

//edit:
did some testing myself and even kung lao's ex spin set to reversal doesnt get through this
some further testing shows that this actually combos into f4 on hit by just dashcanceling instead of running.
pretty usefull for situations where you backdashed a jumpin and are going for the f3 whiffpunish on your opponents string so you get a solid 26% out of it.

Just a little reminder from when your testing if a string jails after a cancel. It won't matter which armor move you use for testing as long as the armor kicks in on the very first start up frame if your checking to see if a string jails.

333SKRC also jails into F3 so that's pretty cool.

 

[Devin Thorn]

Can someone breakdown the advantages fisticuffs offers at the moment? I play a couple mid to top tier character variations and this just seems like a fun one that not many people use in comparison to SD and A-List. Plus the knuckle dusters are dope and I'm a sucker for aesthetics

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Fisticuffs is just for fun, you trade the pressure that comes with A List and the damage from SD for chip damage (which you have to set up sadly). Not much reason to use it over the other two.

 

[Devin Thorn]

Fisticuffs is just for fun, you trade the pressure that comes with A List and the damage from SD for chip damage (which you have to set up sadly). Not much reason to use it over the other two.

Aww sad. Well I suppose I'm not a tourney player and only play semi serious guess it can't hurt having one character I use just for the lolz! Maybe they'll buff fisticuffs I saw someone suggesting make the chip damage buff a permanent thug and then make fist bump do something different. That makes sense and would be cool. What are some tips to using A-List?

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Aww sad. Well I suppose I'm not a tourney player and only play semi serious guess it can't hurt having one character I use just for the lolz! Maybe they'll buff fisticuffs I saw someone suggesting make the chip damage buff a permanent thug and then make fist bump do something different. That makes sense and would be cool. What are some tips to using A-List?

I can see that change to Fisticuffs happening and the fist bump giving would just be a damage boost.

For A List I would suggest learning how to properly use F3. Learn how to run cancel it on hit, block and whiff whenever possible as it is your best tool in A List for whiff punishing and overall using it as a poke to then close the gap for going into pressure. Also use D4 along with F3 as it is another essential tool in neutral due to it's range and recovery. For pressure just stick to the basics at first such as going for 11 pressure. Don't even worry about learning cancels until you learn the basics.

 

[M.D.]

Fisticuffs is great for chip damage and it does a lot, but you can't pressure anyone with more than 3 hits since you can't have anything + on block except ex forceball in this variation. No + F3 cancels and no + SD shadow kick.
So basically after you set up the chip situation, all you can do is do a string into ex fb and that's it. Pretty lame actually.

 

[Phosferrax]

I feel like Fisticuffs is very misunderstood at the minute. The pressure doesn't come from plus strings, it comes from good use of b121, and the knowledge that if you block you can easily lose 10% from a blockstring. If it had the same kind of pressure as the other 2 variations it would be ridiculous.

 

[M.D.]

Yes but how can you setup the buff while still being close to them and at an advantage?

Unless you're in the corner it's very hard to do so.

 

[Phosferrax]

Yes but how can you setup the buff while still being close to them and at an advantage?

Unless you're in the corner it's very hard to do so.

Any forceball at mid range on hit into buff. You can end combos in f24~buff which is a hard knockdown. F3~EX FB when you have the buff is like 7% chip advantage. One hit allows you your b1 game. After a throw I do the buff and just throw projectiles as they do 4% on block.

Each variation gives him a different way to cover up the base characters holes. SD and A-List give different means to gain meterless block advantage at the cost of either clone or stamina in order to continue pressure, and a way to cover up the holes of 11 staggers into 113 or f2 which can become a bit predictable when you're trying to open them up.

Fisticuffs doesn't have a meterless way to gain block advantage but it covers that weakness up with the ability to do incredible amounts of block damage to people, so you trade one type of block pressure for another. It coves up the weakness of 11 staggers with b1 staggers which hit mid and coupled with the chip buff make it very tricky to deal with.

You don't need to rushdown as much in Fisticuffs because his projectile already does above average damage on hit which means most of the cast can't outzone him, forcing them to come in, and with the chip buff you're projectile now does far more damage on block then theirs does.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Anyone noticed that when you get countered , let's say, with Liu Kang's parry, the clones GO AWAY?

Welcome to DAY 1 BANE TIER for fucks sake NRS.

I came here looking for an answer on this and found nothing. This HAS to be a glitch. As SD Johnny, this makes a bunch of matchups just a bit harder. Has anyone tried bringing this up with someone from NRS?

 

[rafaw]

Look DJT playing Fistcuffs JC, so much fun lol!

 

[Frosted 57]

Yea the b121 string got a buff, b1 is now 9 frame start up and you can only armor out or back dash after the 2 hits; for instance b12(armor out)12(armor out)12(armor out). The push back also seems less.
Since the change I've been using f24, b12, rc, 12, f3xxbd3 for 25% as my midscreen bnb since it is really easy to do. I've had trouble getting these higher damage ones consistently; f24 12 12 f3xxbd3 & f24 d1 f24 d1 f3xxbd3.

Ideally they will alter Fist Bump so that it either also increases damage on hit by some amount or has a more reasonable start up, something closer Sub-Zeros frozen aura(which can give sub +frames off f4 on block), since that just negates fist bump all together.

Fisticuffs is still his worst variation imo, since it has no real way to continue pressure. The only way to make f3 safe is to burn meter with Ex Forceballs, but that on block pushes you out of range of b1 and 1.
Maybe is they made f34 safer on block that would help out fisticuffs in this area, but i'm not that good with buff theory so idk.

*But I feel what hurts most about f3 is the recovery time, it is so long that the opp knows the 4 isn't coming out.

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

What do you call it when you hit someone BELOW the belt? A Nutshot.

If Jonny's signature move registered as a low, he would be completely viable against all of the cast. Right now the only thing CLOSE to a 50/50 he has is 114 {High,Mid,Low} (completely unsafe if blocked=full combo punish) or 11 PAUSE F2,4 {High, Mid, PAUSE, Overhead, Mid} (You can armor through=full combo punish or poke=Cage's pressure is over)

Now if we just make ONE change to this character and the Nutshot hits as a low, he will have a real 50/50 and good mixups. "This will be too OP!" Then make it to where you can only cancel the final hit in a combo string with the Nutshot, this will ensure that he is completely viable against all characters and won't over buff him.

Thoughts?

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

this would be nice, but you don't need 50/50s to be competitively viable.

johnny is a bit more of a technical character than others. might be a while before we see him bloom in competitive play because of this. additionally, as we move forward a lot of tweaks will be implemented to the "high tier" characters that tone down moves/strings that aren't working as designed, and so other characters will become more prevalent

honestly don't think he should be touched, except maybe giving shadows armor.