Jade General Discussion Thread

[mundaney]

Jade seems to be at a level other characters should be balanced around

This is probably the most accurate description of Jade.

 

[AK Harold]

@GLoRToR
I'll take the bet but it has to be for the cost of the game because I don't want to invest in PC again.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Anyone else have trouble against Liu Kang?

 

[bones90]

Anyone else have trouble against Liu Kang?

Her parry is pretty good for interrupting that kick string that Liu players love to spam

 

[GLoRToR]

@GLoRToR
I'll take the bet but it has to be for the cost of the game because I don't want to invest in PC again.

Please, we both know you're the better player.
You have nothing to prove to me.

As much as I'd like to play you again, I understand that you don't want to buy the game for pc if you can afford to have a console.

And I'm in a third world country so I don't even have the cost of the game on my bank account in one at the end of the month.
Mouths to feed, bills to pay.
Else I'd just treat you to play with you again.
I need more good players to face instead of laggy random trash.

 

[deathstroke187]

is it just me or her corner combo after bf2 is way harder than in the beta ? i struggle to find the timing for a d1

 

[GLoRToR]

Sorry to further derail from the Jade strategy talk, but as a Scorpion player, I fully agree with this adjustment as well for the exact reasons described. Excellent post.

Appreciate this fully. I know several Scorp players who feel the same and would rather have better normals.
I feel the same way about Air Glaive, personally. Rather have a good kit than be justified by "but Air Glaive" all the time.
I don't like to jump around like an idiot.

 

[GLoRToR]

is it just me or her corner combo after bf2 is way harder than in the beta ? i struggle to find the timing for a d1

Yes, it's verified to be harder.

 

[mrapchem]

Appreciate this fully. I know several Scorp players who feel the same and would rather have better normals.
I feel the same way about Air Glaive, personally. Rather have a good kit than be justified by "but Air Glaive" all the time.
I don't like to jump around like an idiot.

I completely understand what you mean about the jumping around!

As for Scorpion, given that his teleport tracks, nullifies projectiles and leads to a full combo on hit, it should definitely have exploitable weaknesses just like everything else in the game. I've heard some folks give reasons as to why the tele should stay mid, which I won't dispute; but at the very least, the MB portion should not come out on block/whiff. As a matter fact, no advancing special moves should be amplifiable on block or whiff, no matter who the character is.

 

[BlaqandMild15]

Appreciate this fully. I know several Scorp players who feel the same and would rather have better normals.
I feel the same way about Air Glaive, personally. Rather have a good kit than be justified by "but Air Glaive" all the time.
I don't like to jump around like an idiot.

That's exactly how I feel. Honestly I would be fine if they toned down her strengths down a bit and tweaked her elsewhere. I don't like doing all the jump air glaiving the majority of the round neither even though it's really strong against a lot of characters.

 

[Arqwart]

Appreciate this fully. I know several Scorp players who feel the same and would rather have better normals.
I feel the same way about Air Glaive, personally. Rather have a good kit than be justified by "but Air Glaive" all the time.
I don't like to jump around like an idiot.

My issues with Jade's current balance boil down to this, though not quite as specific as just Air Glaive. Jade has a very small set of ridiculously potent tools at her disposal (D2, D4, Air Glaive, Glow) alongside some other decently strong tools (B343, B2, amp'd regular Glaive); but the rest of her kit is just varying levels of trash or HIGHLY situational. Her power budget is in what I feel to be a really shitty state right now. Too much of her kit literally should not be used ever against a competent opponent and that's awful. As I said way before, more of her tools being regularly usable would be a godsend in helping her. She should have more options to help in different situations, but she really doesn't right now. B1 to check aggressive people? Nope, too slow and unsafe. F21 for combo potential? GOD no, it's reactable and unsafe except at maximum range. Parrying button-happy people? lol no, it's 12f and has a very small active frame window. Glaive cancels for safety? Matchup knowledge will result in your death cause she doesn't jail the opponent into having to block them.

This sort of stuff is why I exclusively play kasual matches now so that I can have access to custom variations, most notably for Delia's Dance (which I won't harp on for the billionth time). The ability to plug up holes in Jade's gameplay is vital for making her feel fun to use for me, and her tournament variations just do not offer that.

 

[GLoRToR]

My issues with Jade's current balance boil down to this, though not quite as specific as just Air Glaive. Jade has a very small set of ridiculously potent tools at her disposal (D2, D4, Air Glaive, Glow) alongside some other decently strong tools (B343, B2, amp'd regular Glaive); but the rest of her kit is just varying levels of trash or HIGHLY situational. Her power budget is in what I feel to be a really shitty state right now. Too much of her kit literally should not be used ever against a competent opponent and that's awful. As I said way before, more of her tools being regularly usable would be a godsend in helping her. She should have more options to help in different situations, but she really doesn't right now. B1 to check aggressive people? Nope, too slow and unsafe. F21 for combo potential? GOD no, it's reactable and unsafe except at maximum range. Parrying button-happy people? lol no, it's 12f and has a very small active frame window. Glaive cancels for safety? Matchup knowledge will result in your death cause she doesn't jail the opponent into having to block them.

This sort of stuff is why I exclusively play kasual matches now so that I can have access to custom variations, most notably for Delia's Dance (which I won't harp on for the billionth time). The ability to plug up holes in Jade's gameplay is vital for making her feel fun to use for me, and her tournament variations just do not offer that.

In a game of Liu's F4, Scorpion's teleport, Sonya, Geras etc. I feel like her kit should revolve around b3 staggers into a safe special that's, on MB unsafe and launches.
At the same time, I feel like it's rather those characters who should catch huge nerfs and the overall damage in the game, not pertaining to characters who deal very little, should be brought down to what we were promised.

I literally want advancing mids to be toned down, period.
Throws to be less potent.
D1s to be more + on hit and more - on block.
Subz and Scorpion to play mk11 not mkx.

I want this game to be what we were promised and I feel like Jade's Air Glaive is one of those things that stop it from being that game. I was hyped for her rushdown variation too and cancels are shit, and Vault gets blown up.

idk man. If you never played mk9 Jade or wasn't a loyalist like I was, you can't even imagine how stressed I am for Jade.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Her parry is pretty good for interrupting that kick string that Liu players love to spam

Not really the string. I can’t really air rang him because of his air fireball. He also has that flying kick KB from it.

 

[Miasmata123]

In a game of Liu's F4, Scorpion's teleport, Sonya, Geras etc. I feel like her kit should revolve around b3 staggers into a safe special that's, on MB unsafe and launches.
At the same time, I feel like it's rather those characters who should catch huge nerfs and the overall damage in the game, not pertaining to characters who deal very little, should be brought down to what we were promised.

I literally want advancing mids to be toned down, period.
Throws to be less potent.
D1s to be more + on hit and more - on block.
Subz and Scorpion to play mk11 not mkx.

I want this game to be what we were promised and I feel like Jade's Air Glaive is one of those things that stop it from being that game. I was hyped for her rushdown variation too and cancels are shit, and Vault gets blown up.

idk man. If you never played mk9 Jade or wasn't a loyalist like I was, you can't even imagine how stressed I am for Jade.

Idk if this is right but I think a lot of our problems with Jade is just that she's not what we hoped for after seeing her tools day 1, or perhaps in your experience from mk9.

After seeing her normals I was hoping for a character who exerts pressure through her long range, and looked for openings to pressure the opponent from her b2/b1/f2 range. But many of these normals are actually unusable (@Arqwart summarized it well) and she relies on a few extremely strong moves to distance herself from the opponent rather than properly pressure them.

She's very limited in her tools and though she is incredibly deep in the spacing department, raw gameplay does leave me wanting more. I dont think balance wise she is bad (as you know i think she is quite strong), I just think her playstyle is suiting me less and less every day.

I've looked around for characters that fit that sort of playstyle better and I'm finding Kabal and Kollector to match it much better. They have the whole long range normals bit but don't necessarily want to or can't zone all day.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Well.... Well.. well... Look who was right! Told you Jade wasn't bad to handle if you know the match up. And by the way, literally Big D flawless blocked every single B3434... Your argument is totally invalid... @Pan1cMode @Miasmata123
He literally flawless blocked that EVERY SINGLE TIME on reaction...
Maybe you can try to write me another essay why i'm wrong LOLOL

I just watched that match that entire match had one flawless blocked b3434

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]

Her parry is pretty good for interrupting that kick string that Liu players love to spam

And Error Blacks F4

 

[seanpon]

I just watched that match that entire match had one flawless blocked b3434

He did it 1/1 times on Waz when waz tried it, but he did it multiple times to Kitana prime. Your referring to Waz's match, not against KP

 

[Arqwart]

idk man. If you never played mk9 Jade or wasn't a loyalist like I was, you can't even imagine how stressed I am for Jade.

We don't get anywhere acting like the sky is falling, though. Let's take a step away from the cliff and not pull an MK4 Jarek here. Jade has a VERY solid base in just those tools I mentioned which means we aren't in an MK9 situation where Jade is just abysmal. If NRS decides to touch her balance directly (instead of just indirectly through balance of other characters and game systems), all they'd really need to do is even out her power budget. Air Glaive being an 11/10 tool while others are just unusable is a clear sign that she needs to have her power redistributed.

I think Jade would be absolutely perfect if NRS just rebalanced all KB requirements + damages and played around with redistributing her kit's power so more things are usable in more situations while making the top things not as oppressive (and let's be fair, Air Glaive is genuinely oppressive with its chip and safety).

EDIT: Imagine how much nicer Jade would be if B1, B12, Parry, F21, and F343 were regularly usable against even competent opponents, and you regularly found yourself landing Parry KB and Nitro Kick KB in matches? Suddenly her damage output has the potential for some crazy spikes AND she has more tools for more matchups / situations.

 

[GLoRToR]

We don't get anywhere acting like the sky is falling, though. Let's take a step away from the cliff and not pull an MK4 Jarek here. Jade has a VERY solid base in just those tools I mentioned which means we aren't in an MK9 situation where Jade is just abysmal. If NRS decides to touch her balance directly (instead of just indirectly through balance of other characters and game systems), all they'd really need to do is even out her power budget. Air Glaive being an 11/10 tool while others are just unusable is a clear sign that she needs to have her power redistributed.

I think Jade would be absolutely perfect if NRS just rebalanced all KB requirements + damages and played around with redistributing her kit's power so more things are usable in more situations while making the top things not as oppressive (and let's be fair, Air Glaive is genuinely oppressive with its chip and safety).

A good elaboration of what I mean when I say things like "I think she could use some help and I trust NRS to deliver."
Maybe this brings others closer to my point of view so that those who see more optimistically will think of me less as the villain and more as the person who's been advocating a better overall frame data for her and less air glaive.

Idk if this is right but I think a lot of our problems with Jade is just that she's not what we hoped for after seeing her tools day 1, or perhaps in your experience from mk9.

After seeing her normals I was hoping for a character who exerts pressure through her long range, and looked for openings to pressure the opponent from her b2/b1/f2 range. But many of these normals are actually unusable (@Arqwart summarized it well) and she relies on a few extremely strong moves to distance herself from the opponent rather than properly pressure them.

She's very limited in her tools and though she is incredibly deep in the spacing department, raw gameplay does leave me wanting more. I dont think balance wise she is bad (as you know i think she is quite strong), I just think her playstyle is suiting me less and less every day.

I've looked around for characters that fit that sort of playstyle better and I'm finding Kabal and Kollector to match it much better. They have the whole long range normals bit but don't necessarily want to or can't zone all day.

I was exactly thrilled that we'd get a powerful pressure based character who can lock down zoners and go toe to toe with Liu, Lao, Sonya etc by pushing them back out and forcing them to take risks getting in.

Instead we have an Air Glaive dispenser jumpmachine that's okay at the keeping out but bad at everything else.

As for finding another character, by all means.
I'll be maining Jade no matter what.
I mean, if she gets turned into useless garbage again I'll likely just uninstall the game.
So almost no matter what.

 

[Miasmata123]

A good elaboration of what I mean when I say things like "I think she could use some help and I trust NRS to deliver."
Maybe this brings others closer to my point of view so that those who see more optimistically will think of me less as the villain and more as the person who's been advocating a better overall frame data for her and less air glaive.


I was exactly thrilled that we'd get a powerful pressure based character who can lock down zoners and go toe to toe with Liu, Lao, Sonya etc by pushing them back out and forcing them to take risks getting in.

Instead we have an Air Glaive dispenser jumpmachine that's okay at the keeping out but bad at everything else.

As for finding another character, by all means.
I'll be maining Jade no matter what.
I mean, if she gets turned into useless garbage again I'll likely just uninstall the game.
So almost no matter what.

Right, but I'm sure there's some people who love that air glaive dispensing/b2 or d4 when they get close and repeat playstyle.

I do believe @Arqwart is correct in stating she has a power distribution problem in the ED variation and it really shows in the PV variation. But if the character can function at a high level to some degree is she really in need of an overhaul because her primary fanbase doesn't particularly enjoy her one-dimensional gameplay?

I don't know the answer to that question and I don't think there's a right answer.

As has been pointed out before, the answer probably lies in the pole vault variation and hopefully NRS works to fix the issues with it and expand tournament variations overall. I'm just concerned it'll be be put on the back burner because with one arguably powerful spec I can't see them prioritizing it.

Maybe some Jade will come around and show us some secret tech to use her in a more aggressive manner. Who knows!

 

[GLoRToR]

Right, but I'm sure there's some people who love that air glaive dispensing/b2 or d4 when they get close and repeat playstyle.

I do believe @Arqwart is correct in stating she has a power distribution problem in the ED variation and it really shows in the PV variation. But if the character can function at a high level to some degree is she really in need of an overhaul because her primary fanbase doesn't particularly enjoy her one-dimensional gameplay?

I don't know the answer to that question and I don't think there's a right answer.

As has been pointed out before, the answer probably lies in the pole vault variation and hopefully NRS works to fix the issues with it and expand tournament variations overall. I'm just concerned it'll be be put on the back burner because with one arguably powerful spec I can't see them prioritizing it.

Maybe some Jade will come around and show us some secret tech to use her in a more aggressive manner. Who knows!

Pole vault is "fine" too just less "fine" than when you have Air Glaive. Giving it Air Glaive or Delia instead of Amp SK would make it much more viable. As well as fixing the issues with vault and possibly making cancels better.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Is there a list of all projectiles that gets beat by Glow? Just got blown up by Frost & her bombs lol.

 

[GLoRToR]

Is there a list of all projectiles that gets beat by Glow? Just got blown up by Frost & her bombs lol.

I made a thread, check the Jade forum. I haven't updated the list in a while but the posts under it contain some good intel. Also I think Mortar is a high so just neutral duck it

 

[seanpon]

Anyone else have trouble against Liu Kang?

Check out THTB playing against a good Liu Kang player, he also plays him towards the ending as well, he does very well.

 

[Phazael]

Glow already has instant start up... You probably mean casting with defensive bar to reduce recovery frames... Tbh i think that would be a little cheap, its just as cheap as all the far teleports that some characters in this game have like cetrion and skarlet. Whats the point of walking these characters to the corner and then having them teleporting and having to do the same. Some characters have no option against that.

Again speaking from an online perspective, would instant glow be any less cheap then the current air Boomerang situation is against normal characters? But I can definitely see the argument. And honestly I think it's it's a choice between being broken in the air and broken on the ground I'd rather be broken on the ground to normalize the strategies. Against the rest of the cast that is.