Jade General Discussion Thread

[seanpon]

To quote another member of the community:



But yeah, it's definitely exciting seeing how she and her match ups evolve. I'm really just annoyed with all the rampant downplay.

Does she maybe need some tweaks? Sure. But the downplay literally drives people away from this community and needs to end (I've had several people in Twitch chat tell me they saw a number of posts here and made them think Jade was so broken she was not worth learning).

wow... so you take what people in twitch chat say seriously.... LOL

 

[xWildx]

To quote another member of the community:



But yeah, it's definitely exciting seeing how she and her match ups evolve. I'm really just annoyed with all the rampant downplay.

Does she maybe need some tweaks? Sure. But the downplay literally drives people away from this community and needs to end (I've had several people in Twitch chat tell me they saw a number of posts here and made them think Jade was so broken she was not worth learning).

You misunderstand, I actively think Jade is better than a number of supposed “bottom tier” characters in this game. I just don’t comment on it because I have not grinded her enough to have an informed enough opinion on it myself. That being said, she does have flaws, and I’m very interested to see how she does later in the tournament.

 

[Miasmata123]

You misunderstand, I actively think Jade is better than a number of supposed “bottom tier” characters in this game. I just don’t comment on it because I have not grinded her enough to have an informed enough opinion on it myself. That being said, she does have flaws, and I’m very interested to see how she does later in the tournament.

Sorry I'm on the defensive because I'm so proud of the work everyone did with Jade and these guys are like "flawless block tho!" Lol.

I need to stop getting worked up over it my b.

 

[xWildx]

Sorry I'm on the defensive because I'm so proud of the work everyone did with Jade and these guys are like "flawless block tho!" Lol.

I need to stop getting worked up over it my b.

Flawless block is so incredibly overhyped anyways. Any player worth their salt is going to get flawless blocked once and completely change their play style, and thus, the meta of the match.

Obviously, if people do nothing but spam b3434 Jade is going to get blown up. The MU goes much further than that lol

 

[Miasmata123]

Flawless block is so incredibly overhyped anyways. Any player worth their salt is going to get flawless blocked once and completely change their play style, and thus, the meta of the match.

Obviously, if people do nothing but spam b3434 Jade is going to get blown up. The MU goes much further than that lol

Yep! Semiij vs Kombat that exact thing happened. Granted kitana has no gap option on her gap string but Kombat tried to flawless block expecting the flawless blockable overhead and ate the rest of the string. The same thing can be done with a special cancel on Jade's b3434 string, though unsafe.

It's a huge risk and while the payoff can be massive, it's often much safer to just take the chip and move on. Especially in a bo3. But people are still stuck in the mindset of "I can just FB it so it must be unusable ina real match" that we had like week 1.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Well I can see you don't really play as jade or have versed her in many match ups... The end of her back 3 string is heavily televised. Its pretty obvious when you know she's about to do it, bc she literally turns around and does a spin kick, and thats your que to go for the flawless block. You can just hold block and wait for the que for her to input the final 4. The final 4 is very visible and thats your que to let go of block and do a flawless block. If you don't believe me, honeybee was grinding some sets with Big D, who also uses Jade. Look how easy it was for honeybee to get the flawless block while playing online... He did it multiple times without trouble

Are you intentionally ignoring the times he gets grabbed or staggered again because he’s trying for the flawless block?

That’s like saying Liu’s kick string is useless because you can flawless block the last hit. Obviously not.

 

[GLoRToR]

Are you intentionally ignoring the times he gets grabbed or staggered again because he’s trying for the flawless block?

That’s like saying Liu’s kick string is useless because you can flawless block the last hit. Obviously not.

Likening Jade's kick string to Liu's is like saying that a Cadillac is the same as a Ferrari because both have wheels.

Liu's F4 is arguably the best mid in the game at 9f and beats out every poke in the game either by speed or by range. It leads to a mixup situation with Low Fireball, a launch into MASSIVE damage and a parry into similarly huge damage Jade players can only dream of.

B3 is indeed Jade's best mid at 11f but she has no compelling pressure off of it and the stagger game is highly overshadowed by the fact that she has no decent special to cancel it into. Remember when EX Glaive got blown up every single time? There we go.

I understand that Waz makes her look more powerful than she really is.
I also understand that this website has this nerf-paranoia where everyone wants their main to be buffed, even if it's Erron, and then no other character to receive any fixes because Heavens Forbid someone's character might be stronger than theirs.

But let's be reasonable here. Waz is amazing with Jade. Jade is not as bad as D'Vorah, Frost, or the Kahns. But she does need a proper punish, preferably a way to launch reliably for some decent damage, and a special that makes her B3 game - her only decent mid into any decent scenario - just a bit better.
Not saying make b3 9f though that would be amazing.
Nobody wants Jade to become Brokentier, but you clearly don't understand the character's problems and you aren't willing to listen.

 

[Miasmata123]

Likening Jade's kick string to Liu's is like saying that a Cadillac is the same as a Ferrari because both have wheels.

Liu's F4 is arguably the best mid in the game at 9f and beats out every poke in the game either by speed or by range. It leads to a mixup situation with Low Fireball, a launch into MASSIVE damage and a parry into similarly huge damage Jade players can only dream of.

B3 is indeed Jade's best mid at 11f but she has no compelling pressure off of it and the stagger game is highly overshadowed by the fact that she has no decent special to cancel it into. Remember when EX Glaive got blown up every single time? There we go.

I understand that Waz makes her look more powerful than she really is.
I also understand that this website has this nerf-paranoia where everyone wants their main to be buffed, even if it's Erron, and then no other character to receive any fixes because Heavens Forbid someone's character might be stronger than theirs.

But let's be reasonable here. Waz is amazing with Jade. Jade is not as bad as D'Vorah, Frost, or the Kahns. But she does need a proper punish, preferably a way to launch reliably for some decent damage, and a special that makes her B3 game - her only decent mid into any decent scenario - just a bit better.
Not saying make b3 9f though that would be amazing.
Nobody wants Jade to become Brokentier, but you clearly don't understand the character's problems and you aren't willing to listen.

Why do you insist on insulting people you disagree with? I told you before you gotta stop taking such a condescending tone!

Also why are we comparing Jade's pressure string to the pressure string of a character literally designed around that one string? Like I told you before, context matters!

You just don't listen :/

Also not sure when you're referring to Jade's ex glaive getting blown up. Did you watch those games lol? Dragon's Cetrion actually got hit by the glaives of a b343 ex glaive cancel (so yes, Jade's stagger did convert to meaningful pressure). Mind you Jade had Cetrion in the corner for how long? Cetrion was completely unable to zone Waz's Jade and was stuck in the corner.

This is one of the top players in the world.

Honestly Jade with a proper punish would be pretty broken. But you dont understand the character's strengths or are unable to properly take advantage of them.

 

[TakeAChance]

Why do you insist on insulting people you disagree with? I told you before you gotta stop taking such a condescending tone!

Also why are we comparing Jade's pressure string to the pressure string of a character literally designed around that one string? Like I told you before, context matters!

You just don't listen :/

Also not sure when you're referring to Jade's ex glaive getting blown up. Did you watch those games lol? Dragon's Cetrion actually got hit by the glaives of a b343 ex glaive cancel (so yes, Jade's stagger did convert to meaningful pressure). Mind you Jade had Cetrion in the corner for how long? Cetrion was completely unable to zone Waz's Jade and was stuck in the corner.

This is one of the top players in the world.

Honestly Jade with a proper punish would be pretty broken. But you dont understand the character's strengths or are unable to properly take advantage of them.

I'll say what I and many others have echoed... Give her a SLIGHTLY better mid screen punish, and no one would complain about her. I hope she makes it to top 8 or even wins, but I'll reserve judgement until she faces characters that can take 30-40 off a 50/50 and see how she reacts to having to go in.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I'll say what I and many others have echoed... Give her a SLIGHTLY better mid screen punish, and no one would complain about her. I hope she makes it to top 8 or even wins, but I'll reserve judgement until she faces characters that can take 30-40 off a 50/50 and see how she reacts to having to go in.

Waz beat Coosco. Jade v Sonya

 

[Geoffmeister]

Coosco didn't play the MU and tilted, let's see Scar

I'll say this though... Waz and KP are doing stuff nobody is thinking about... PLAYING THE FIGHTING GAME, and ya'll can't wait to point fingers on who's right or wrong..
Great awareness by them so far, they deserve a lil more respect...
Could we at least... wait until... after the first major before we set our infallible conclusions in stone?

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

I'm still on the opinion that good players wouldn't even touch her if she was as bad as people suggest.
No one's implying that her (or Kano for that matter) are top tier. I just think this tourney showed that the downplay is very real.
I think it's dishonest at this point to even imply she's at the same level of D'Vorah, Frost, Kollector or Kotal after seeing how those characters quickly crumbled when they were used (or didn't get used at all). I'm not placing her anywhere on the tier list, but anything below low-mid is laughable imo.
EDIT: besides, it has never been as good to be a mid tier character in an NRS game as it is right now.

 

[GLoRToR]

I'm still on the opinion that good players wouldn't even touch her if she was as bad as people suggest.
No one's implying that her (or Kano for that matter) are top tier. I just think this tourney showed that the downplay is very real.
I think it's dishonest at this point to even imply she's at the same level of D'Vorah, Frost, Kollector or Kotal after seeing how those characters quickly crumbled when they were used (or didn't get used at all). I'm not placing her anywhere on the tier list, but anything below low-mid is laughable imo.
EDIT: besides, it has never been as good to be a mid tier character in an NRS game as it is right now.

Above D'Vorah, Frost, Kotal and Shao that's already low-mid.
But again, it's early, we don't know.

At the same time, I'm seeing a lot of cases where Jade is getting away with murder because people don't know her frames.

Which is not to discredit the players themselves.
Glow is 12 frames of startup and then 44 frames before she can move.
Butterfly is -13 on block.
People just need to lab her instead of calling me, or anyone who says she needs some changes the worst evil in the world.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Glow is 12 frames of startup and then 44 frames before she can move.

Glow’s startup and recovery frames are irrelevant since it is done on reaction to a projectile or after plus frames. It’s not thrown out randomly in the neutral.

Butterfly is -13 on block.

This is irrelevant because you should never be using this on block unless it’s for the chip out.

People just need to lab her instead of calling me, or anyone who says she needs some changes the worst evil in the world

I don’t think you’re evil; just severely misinformed or wilfully ignorant. If you think Jade is bad it’s you who has the issue. She is perfectly fine and has all the tools to compete at the highest level. If you don’t wanna have to play the extremely lame run away and time out game; fine. Pick another character.

As it stands giving a character who nullifies zoning with glow, has an insane neutral and has amazing screen control any buffs sounds questionable.

 

[GLoRToR]

Glow’s startup and recovery frames are irrelevant since it is done on reaction to a projectile or after plus frames. It’s not thrown out randomly in the neutral.


This is irrelevant because you should never be using this on block unless it’s for the chip out.


I don’t think you’re evil; just severely misinformed or wilfully ignorant. If you think Jade is bad it’s you who has the issue. She is perfectly fine and has all the tools to compete at the highest level. If you don’t wanna have to play the extremely lame run away and time out game; fine. Pick another character.

As it stands giving a character who nullifies zoning with glow, has an insane neutral and has amazing screen control any buffs sounds questionable.

I think you're the one who's willfully ignorant as I've said it countless times that I don't think she's a bad character, just others are much better and she has glaring issues.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I think you're the one who's willfully ignorant as I've said it countless times that I don't think she's a bad character, just others are much better and she has glaring issues.

The things you think are issues, aren’t issues.

I’ve never heard Waz complain about his “low tier” character. Even he agreees she’s really good.

 

[seanpon]

Well.... Well.. well... Look who was right! Told you Jade wasn't bad to handle if you know the match up. And by the way, literally Big D flawless blocked every single B3434... Your argument is totally invalid... @Pan1cMode @Miasmata123
He literally flawless blocked that EVERY SINGLE TIME on reaction...
Maybe you can try to write me another essay why i'm wrong LOLOL

 

[Rpgz]

No essay needed proof is in the pudding...Waz is still GAWDLIKE!

 

[seanpon]

No essay needed proof is in the pudding...Waz is still GAWDLIKE!

Of course Waz is godlike! The dude travelled all the way from Australia and put in so much work with the character we love to play and believe in. But I still think its hilarious tweedle dum and tweedle dee above are still saying jade is a good character. It was clear she has flaws, and Big D, the character that actually plays Jade easily exploited those flaws against two Jade players. Why couldn't Dragon do the same? I think its safe to assume Dragon is a better player than Big D, after all Dragon has won an Evo! Its simply because dragon didn't know the match up as well as Big D did.... Thats why you kept seeing those perfectly timed flawless blocks and he literally just far teleported in the corner and jade couldn't do anything to catch up

 

[GLoRToR]

The things you think are issues, aren’t issues.

I’ve never heard Waz complain about his “low tier” character. Even he agreees she’s really good.

As you have seen, glow taking 56 frames indeed IS an issue. As is her lack of a proper punish AND her lack of a safe cancel. Once she gets these things, she'll be so much better for it.

F2 being the worst normal in the game is whatever, she has other, more useful buttons.

 

[wsj515]

The mental gymnastics going on in this community is incredible

 

[MKF30]

Jade's fun, but leaves something to be desired.

 

[Rpgz]

Jade's fun, but leaves something to be desired.

BUFF JADE? MORE HYPE

 

[MKF30]

BUFF JADE? MORE HYPE

It's ok I've double posted too haha. Was about to tell you but you noticed lol. Yeah, I'd be down for a buff for her, Raiden and a few others. We'll see what happens though.

 

[Arqwart]

The mental gymnastics going on in this community is incredible

This toxic shit flinging on both sides needs to stop. While I don't agree with many talking points on either side, we should at least all have fucking discussions instead of generalizing, strawmanning, and throwing out useless ad hominems.

Jade has issues. Half her kit is useless or VERY situational. The other half of her kit is quite strong. She has her issues like every character, but it's that much more noticeable when she cant cash out on damage like 99% of the rest of the cast.

Does she need buffs? I dont believe she "needs" them, but a few more tools being regularly usable would be nice in my opinion.
Is she a bad character? No; and contrary to popular belief, very few people here have recently argued that she's "bad." It's more the issues I've stated above and a few others.
Is she a good character? Yes.
Is she a great character? I'd argue no as her short list of usable tools gets even smaller against knowledgable opponents. See: BigD vs. Waz.

Let's drop the condescending tones and shitty attacks. It helps nothing and gets us nowhere. We're here to talk about Jade, not act like chimps in a zoo.

EDIT: first sentence was unnecessary.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Even with teleport cancel nerfs, Scorpion will still be a difficult matchup for Jade. Players will just pick his Searing Rage variation, which is better than Reborn IMO.

Teleport still controls the pace of the MU. She has to play his game & he hits harder in that variation. Furthermore, Teleport shuts down her zoning and air game completely.

Teleport cancels costing 1 bar of offense & defense would ruin the variation. TP hitting high & not being able to AMP on block/whiff would suffice.