Jade General Discussion Thread

[Rpgz]

Characters who have to win by time out against CETRION and SONYA are not top tier dude sry, but no!

 

[Miasmata123]

Characters who have to win by time out against CETRION and SONYA are not top tier dude sry, but no!

First off I dont think anyone is suggesting this automatically makes her "top tier". But it proves she is at a minimum tournament viable, and more likely actually decent.

Second, time out is a zone's major tool. This is why concepts like "life lead" are so important. The person being zoned major impetus to reach a zoner is in big part because of the threat of time out.

Does it often reach time out? No not usually, but it is a major force even if you're not constantly aware of it.

 

[Rpgz]

First off I dont think anyone is suggesting this automatically makes her "top tier". But it proves she is at a minimum tournament viable, and more likely actually decent.

Second, time out is a zone's major tool. This is why concepts like "life lead" are so important. The person being zoned major impetus to reach a zoner is in big part because of the threat of time out.

Does it often reach time out? No not usually, but it is a major force even if you're not constantly aware of it.

Once this match up is figured out Jade will get caught HAVE NO GOOD OPTIONS AND SHE WILL BE DROPPED...or u are right and we will find out tomorrow

 

[Arqwart]

Characters who have to win by time out against CETRION and SONYA are not top tier dude sry, but no!

Gotta agree with Miasmata in full. Jade's ability to keep out and take advantage of time outs is a genuine strength of hers, not a factor against her viability. Jade's opponents have to make it past Jade's neutral game which consists of multiple different tactics, all the while they are getting chipped down and taking random hits. If Jade has to get the W by time out, that's perfectly fine for her as that means fewer risks to take as she lets that clock hit 0.

 

[Rpgz]

we will see how effective that is in Top 24 idc if you aggree results are what matters...

 

[THTB]

There's a lot of suggestion that people don't know the matchup, despite having people like MIT, Waz, VMan, and KP here and playing them in casuals. Even me, to a lesser extent.

I think she needs some stuff worked on, but she's not an unusable mess that people make her out to be. The only time I felt out of options vs was Dragon. It's Dragon lmao. And a Jade put him in losers.

 

[Arqwart]

There's a lot of suggestion that people don't know the matchup, despite having people like MIT, Waz, VMan, and KP here and playing them in casuals. Even me, to a lesser extent.

I think she needs some stuff worked on, but she's not an unusable mess that people make her out to be. The only time I felt out of options vs was Dragon. It's Dragon lmao. And a Jade put him in losers.

Everything I've seen today has shown that Jade is basically like every other character in this game: a few tools sit on the spectrum of "Good" to "Superb" while everything else sits on the spectrum of "Mediocre" to "Downright useless." The only notable difference outside of this is a lack of an amplified launcher. That's... that's really it. She has her core strengths and weaknesses just as everyone else.

I think that really shows a lot of people are overthinking it with her to a large degree.

This right here is what I think my biggest issue with her has been. I need to change my mindset to focusing solely on what works naturally with her instead of trying to force mediocre, bad, or extremely situational shit to work. More D4, anti-air 2, B2, B343, grabs, zoning, air razor-rangs, ending strings in amplified razor-rang for stupid plus frames; less parry baiting, fishing for nitro kick KBs, F21, Butterfly corner carrying, meter burning nitro kick just for damage, edenian spark mixup attempts, etc.

I've got a lot to go over and learn from the showings put on by KP and Waz today, and I am greatly looking forward to their future showings.

 

[AK Harold]

So done lol good luck.

 

[seanpon]

Y'all on suicide watch yet? Two Jades in top 24. Your character is very good.

Two Kano's also made it into top 24, does that make Kano top tier now?

 

[Pan1cMode]

Y'all on suicide watch yet? Two Jades in top 24. Your character is very good.

No, that can’t be right. Jade is a low tier struggle character who is in desperate need of buffs.

The only reason multiple Jade’s are winning matches is because their opponents don’t know the matchup; despite the Jades offering multiple casual sets.

It couldn’t possibly be that people aren’t playing her right, aren’t willing to time the opponent out, aren’t willing to play super lame. No; it’s the character that’s wrong.

 

[Rpgz]

Can you time out a top 24 player? tune in tomorrow to see if the strat is viable! hate to be waz right now if thats all he has...

 

[Miasmata123]

I think she needs some stuff worked on, but she's not an unusable mess that people make her out to be. The only time I felt out of options vs was Dragon. It's Dragon lmao. And a Jade put him in losers.

You did great THTB! My roommate and I were rooting for you, and I'm sure most people here were as well.

 

[Miasmata123]

Everything I've seen today has shown that Jade is basically like every other character in this game: a few tools sit on the spectrum of "Good" to "Superb" while everything else sits on the spectrum of "Mediocre" to "Downright useless." The only notable difference outside of this is a lack of an amplified launcher. That's... that's really it. She has her core strengths and weaknesses just as everyone else.

This right here is what I think my biggest issue with her has been. I need to change my mindset to focusing solely on what works naturally with her instead of trying to force mediocre, bad, or extremely situational shit to work. More D4, anti-air 2, B2, B343, grabs, zoning, air razor-rangs, ending strings in amplified razor-rang for stupid plus frames; less parry baiting, fishing for nitro kick KBs, F21, Butterfly corner carrying, meter burning nitro kick just for damage, edenian spark mixup attempts, etc.

I've got a lot to go over and learn from the showings put on by KP and Waz today, and I am greatly looking forward to their future showings.

I love this analysis of how the best Jades do things. Definitely a list I'm going to save for things I need to work on.

 

[seanpon]

No, that can’t be right. Jade is a low tier struggle character who is in desperate need of buffs.

The only reason multiple Jade’s are winning matches is because their opponents don’t know the matchup; despite the Jades offering multiple casual sets.

It couldn’t possibly be that people aren’t playing her right, aren’t willing to time the opponent out, aren’t willing to play super lame. No; it’s the character that’s wrong.

So there are also two kano's in top 24.... ? Is kano this mixup machine with 50/50's that steamrolls past most of his opponents? Or is Kano now considered top tier? what are you trying to say... The game is only a month old, people are still learning the match up's. No one has even mastered flawless block, do you know how many times different Jade players let B343 rock and it not even being flawless blocked... that shit is even doable online.

 

[Espio]

Can we all just be happy our character is getting great representation offline? It's not match up ignorance that is propelling them to success. Waz played near flawlessly, KP has played extremely well among others. If you can watch these players do that kind of work and your take away is them winning from match up inexperience, that's just......naive.

It's really lame to try to diminish the success of Jade players. What will be said if they continue doing well with her six months from now? People won't own anything and that's the problem.

I like seeing Jade do well and I wish we all wouldn't devolve into juvenile antics every time someone does or doesn't do well.

 

[Miasmata123]

So there are also two kano's in top 24.... ? Is kano this mixup machine with 50/50's that steamrolls past most of his opponents? Or is Kano now considered top tier? what are you trying to say... The game is only a month old, people are still learning the match up's. No one has even mastered flawless block, do you know how many times different Jade players let B343 rock and it not even being flawless blocked... that shit is even doable online. I'm sorry in Australia Wazminator steamrollled your ass so many times you have to talk shiit in here...

No one is saying top 24=top tier mix up gods. We're saying top 24 probably indicates the character is damn solid though.

Yes, even two Kanos in the top 24 to me indicates that he is probably not as bad as everyone says he is, and probably doesnt need as much help as people are crying for.

Also if you need someone to explain to you the flawless block mix up potential and risk/reward payoff I can do so but I don't feel like writing an essay.

 

[seanpon]

No one is saying top 24=top tier mix up gods. We're saying top 24 probably indicates the character is damn solid though.

Yes, even two Kanos in the top 24 to me indicates that he is probably not as bad as everyone says he is, and probably doesnt need as much help as people are crying for.

Also if you need someone to explain to you the flawless block mix up potential and risk/reward payoff I can do so but I don't feel like writing an essay.

When you get hit with the end of jade's B343 you barely take any damage and neutral gets reset... When you flawless block her telegraphed kick at the end you get a full combo punish for 300-400... That explains it in under 50 words

 

[Shale101]

Have to say watching combo breaker footage I was Happy to see Jade played but also Sad......Some top level people playing her and I'm mainly seeing Jumping back/ keep away. I understand that people say jade has the "tools" and the "range" so therefor she must forfeit combos/damage/ recovery.......but it just kind of sucks to watch........ AIR GLAIVE AIR GLAIVE LOW SPARK GLAIVE GLAIVE.....with some combos in-between. I didn't see anyone playing the pole vault version......which is understandable because it's just not very good right now. I played Kitana exclusively in MKX including Mournful which is why I play Jade and Kitana now. After really giving the game a chance I have to say I'm disappointed in the way this game plays. It feels like a step backwards to me. It just doesn't feel as fun to me ......hopefully that will change in time but im not holding my breath. Kitana feels awful to me compared to what she was previously.

 

[Pan1cMode]

When you get hit with the end of jade's B343 you barely take any damage and neutral gets reset... When you flawless block her telegraphed kick at the end you get a full combo punish for 300-400... That explains it in under 50 words

Except if you’re sitting there waiting for the flawless block, you get hit with the ex rangs which have different block timing. Or you eat the stagger and continue to block. Flawless block against b3434 is a read. It’s not an instant counter.

 

[Miasmata123]

When you get hit with the end of jade's B343 you barely take any damage and neutral gets reset... When you flawless block her telegraphed kick at the end you get a full combo punish for 300-400... That explains it in under 50 words

Lol if you think I'm referring to the possibility of them messing up a Flawless Block I can see that you really dont have a great understanding of the game. I'll try to help you out .

These guys can easily Flawless Block the b3434. That's not a question here.

B3434 is a good stagger. If you watch Waz vs Dragon you'll notice in the beginning he only ever does b343. He's conditioning Dragon to believe he's not going to complete the string while also making Dragon hesitate enough to get another b343 in on Dragon the first time he does it (around 2:05 in the YouTube video).

This also allows Waz, when he does complete the string, to make Dragon not be quite ready enough to Flawless Block, and best case he hopes Dragon actually drops block completely after the b343. Around 4:50 this actually happens, as Waz cancels into ex Glaive which Kounters Dragon who expected Waz's turn to be over.

Now there's potentially even more mindgames at play. Say Dragon reads that Waz is going to actually finish the string, and Dragon went to flawless block. But Waz read the attempt to flawless block and cancels into Deadly Butterfly. Now Dragon gets the tables turned on him and takes the full damage.

At the end of the day only 3 games isnt enough to get a clear understanding of the opponent's patterns and makes attempting flawless block very dangerous, whereas you can just block and take some chip and move on with your life.

 

[seanpon]

Lol if you think I'm referring to the possibility of them messing up a Flawless Block I can see that you really dont have a great understanding of the game. I'll try to help you out .

These guys can easily Flawless Block the b3434. That's not a question here.

B3434 is a good stagger. If you watch Waz vs Dragon you'll notice in the beginning he only ever does b343. He's conditioning Dragon to believe he's not going to complete the string while also making Dragon hesitate enough to get another b343 in on Dragon the first time he does it (around 2:05 in the YouTube video).

This also allows Waz, when he does complete the string, to make Dragon not be quite ready enough to Flawless Block, and best case he hopes Dragon actually drops block completely after the b343. Around 4:50 this actually happens, as Waz cancels into ex Glaive which Kounters Dragon who expected Waz's turn to be over.

Now there's potentially even more mindgames at play. Say Dragon reads that Waz is going to actually finish the string, and Dragon went to flawless block. But Waz read the attempt to flawless block and cancels into Deadly Butterfly. Now Dragon gets the tables turned on him and takes the full damage.

At the end of the day only 3 games isnt enough to get a clear understanding of the opponent's patterns and makes attempting flawless block very dangerous, whereas you can just block and take some chip and move on with your life.

Well I can see you don't really play as jade or have versed her in many match ups... The end of her back 3 string is heavily televised. Its pretty obvious when you know she's about to do it, bc she literally turns around and does a spin kick, and thats your que to go for the flawless block. You can just hold block and wait for the que for her to input the final 4. The final 4 is very visible and thats your que to let go of block and do a flawless block. If you don't believe me, honeybee was grinding some sets with Big D, who also uses Jade. Look how easy it was for honeybee to get the flawless block while playing online... He did it multiple times without trouble

 

[Miasmata123]

Well I can see you don't really play as jade or have versed her in many match ups... The end of her back 3 string is heavily televised. Its pretty obvious when you know she's about to do it, bc she literally turns around and does a spin kick, and thats your que to go for the flawless block. You can just hold block and wait for the que for her to input the final 4. The final 4 is very visible and thats your que to let go of block and do a flawless block. If you don't believe me, honeybee was grinding some sets with Big D, who also uses Jade. Look how easy it was for honeybee to get the flawless block while playing online... He did it multiple times without trouble

Lol you're not flawless blocking that on reaction and neither is Honeybee.

 

[xWildx]

“Do not confuse unfamiliarity with viability.” Words uttered by a rather well known member of this community. That being said, since Jade shuts down zoning, not knowing how to approach her on the ground could 100% cost you the match.

It’s great to see Jade getting some solid representation at CB, but I’m very interested to see how she fares at the higher levels of play.

 

[seanpon]

Lol you're not flawless blocking that on reaction and neither is Honeybee.

Honeybee literally does it multiple times in the video LOL. You can see that final 4 of her string coming and you get plenty of time to react with a flawless block, and guess what, if you time it you don't even need to input up 2, you get a full combo punish without having to spend the offensive and defensive bar for the launcher bc jade is literally right in front of you when you FB that string. and if you mess up the timing and take the hit... neutral is reset and thats it...

 

[Miasmata123]

“Do not confuse unfamiliarity with viability.” Words uttered by a rather well known member of this community. That being said, since Jade shuts down zoning, not knowing how to approach her on the ground could 100% cost you the match.

It’s great to see Jade getting some solid representation at CB, but I’m very interested to see how she fares at the higher levels of play.

To quote another member of the community:

There's a lot of suggestion that people don't know the matchup, despite having people like MIT, Waz, VMan, and KP here and playing them in casuals. Even me, to a lesser extent.

But yeah, it's definitely exciting seeing how she and her match ups evolve. I'm really just annoyed with all the rampant downplay.

Does she maybe need some tweaks? Sure. But the downplay literally drives people away from this community and needs to end (I've had several people in Twitch chat tell me they saw a number of posts here and made them think Jade was so broken she was not worth learning).