Jade General Discussion Thread

[DrZmmm]

To be fair, it's about air glaive rather than the low projectile. I personally dont think that air glaive is just "so-so". Its one of her best tools.

 

[Miasmata123]

I'm surprised. One of the things I see mentioned that would help her is a safe special, and V2 seems to have exactly that. Her low projectile "50/50" off f2 is a shitty gimmick anyway, they can fuzzyguard by blocking high then low. And the thing is just all around terrible. Since it travels on the fucking ground, anyone can jump it with ease. If you guys aren't using V2, I encourage you all to play with it. Maybe people have and it also sucks? Idk. Don't feel like reading through the whole thread. Seems solid though. Turns b2 into a 180dmg knockdown, or a -4 on block mid string.

And yeah, the 7f thing surprised me too. It being that much safer shouldn't be ignored, especially since not everyone has a low starter to blow her up with.

Yeah her f2 spark cancel is a gimmick and people learn to react pretty fast but I think her low spark is damn good on it's own against a lot of characters (Erron, Sub). Especially when you read the jump and catch them with an air glaive.

Can you cancel D4 into vault? Her d4 alone is so good I thought that would be asking for too much lol.

The thing I experienced with it is that pole vault on block leaves you directly adjacent to the opponent at -4 which is pretty dangerous cause you're exposed to a lot of character's tick throws and other shenanigans you might not want to be exposed to, but I haven't tried since the first few days and I actually know how to block most strings now XD

 

[GLoRToR]

To be fair, it's about air glaive rather than the low projectile. I personally dont think that air glaive is just "so-so". Its one of her best tools.

Definitely.
@Espio agreed that a better custom variation of hers is with Air Glaive, Vault and Delia's. Still nowhere near a Misery Blade Scorpion but it makes her feel less incomplete on the whole.

If her strings weren't hellishly negative she'd be so much better as a character.

 

[Wrath0594]

Yeah her f2 spark cancel is a gimmick and people learn to react pretty fast but I think her low spark is damn good on it's own against a lot of characters (Erron, Sub). Especially when you read the jump and catch them with an air glaive.

Can you cancel D4 into vault? Her d4 alone is so good I thought that would be asking for too much lol.

The thing I experienced with it is that pole vault on block leaves you directly adjacent to the opponent at -4 which is pretty dangerous cause you're exposed to a lot of character's tick throws and other shenanigans you might not want to be exposed to, but I haven't tried since the first few days and I actually know how to block most strings now XD

It's more dangerous than being -10 or -13? And her best normals are close ranged. You should be able to d4 pole vault. It's not a combo, nothing from d4 is, but if they don't hold block, they'll get hit.

 

[AK Harold]

So @THTB busts his ass and makes it to a grand finals with notable players in it and the fact that he loses to a really good player invalidates Jade's viability? Come the fuck on and get over yourselves. I didn't know competitive meant you had to win every tournament you enter. The dude did work with Jade and it's clear she is good enough to compete. I'm going to go ahead and say it lmao Jade down players.

@THTB and others that want to actually progress with this character with match up knowledge dm me.

 

[GLoRToR]

@THTB and others that want to actually progress with this character with match up knowledge dm me.

I talk to THTB regularly and I know he's good. Anyway, matchup knowledge is always welcome.

 

[mercureXI]

if you're going to cite a video please watch it first. Reo puts Jade in a tier he calls A- as a reflection of how balanced he thinks the game is, and it's a tier he thinks is the balanced tier who lack the bullshit of the upper tiers. It's a much more positive take than "Jade is C tier".

Dude, arent you the one talking about people having a condescending tone earlier ? I suggest you read again your whole post and think about the tone YOU use here.

Of course I watched the video. . . . . .

Jade being "balanced" is a problem when so many characters are unbalanced and have so many BS in their toolkit.

She's fair in a game that uses BS as fuel ...

Being in the last 10 characters of a 25 characters' tier list with the first 10 being so dominant and so strong, is indeed a problem.

Its not about being positive or negative here.

I've like 500 matches offline/online matches with Jade.

Watched Brady's fuzzy options for Subzero.

Did my homework and trained every day with friends to learn matchups.

And I can tell you (but you can watch that Geras vs Jade vid, same conclusion) : this character has zero chance to compete against high tier characters as it is now.

It's way easier to win using a 2days Subzero or a 5days Skarley at this point. WAY easier. And Skarlet is not even that good. Her kit just "works" : zone, if you cant, get in and play the good old "high/low/stagger/throw" game ... with safe options and huge range (her sweep is amazing) while recovering health !

Sure her overhead doesnt lead to combos ... not the point : you can mixup efficiently ... people wont block it easily, meaning you can mount an offense and condition them for the low launcher (corner) to finally come.

Jade cant do that with her overhead. Its way too slow. At this point, the only time I manage to hit my friend with it, is when I guess right on his wakeup option. How sad is that ?

Again : I get that making it faster would potentially make her "too good" ... then why not let her have her popup on 124 instead ?

That would give her some punish options on par with most characters, you can slow down the initial hit a bit if needed (212 is 7f anyway).

Her overhead can now go back to beta state : no popup... but make it 20f ... so that you can use it to condition and use her low string after that.

Many ways to make her better without breaking her. And while still remaining a "fair" character.

I've mained her all MK9 and I mained characters like Hugo in 3S or Zwei in SCV ... I know when a character doesnt get to play the same game as high tier characters do.

Jade is in this category. Not garbage of course. But she enters the ring with some serious handicap... a few rounds against a good Geras/Subz/etc can teach you that

Just want a few buff ... not any nerf to current good characters, though.

 

[mercureXI]

I'm surprised. One of the things I see mentioned that would help her is a safe special, and V2 seems to have exactly that. Her low projectile "50/50" off f2 is a shitty gimmick anyway, they can fuzzyguard by blocking high then low. And the thing is just all around terrible. Since it travels on the fucking ground, anyone can jump it with ease. If you guys aren't using V2, I encourage you all to play with it. Maybe people have and it also sucks? Idk. Don't feel like reading through the whole thread. Seems solid though. Turns b2 into a 180dmg knockdown, or a -4 on block mid string.

And yeah, the 7f thing surprised me too. It being that much safer shouldn't be ignored, especially since not everyone has a low starter to blow her up with.

Not worth losing air rang. Thats the only thing that lets her compete in many matchups.

Jade doesnt want to be reallllly close and -4 against most of the cast. Her kit works only at range.

 

[Miasmata123]

Dude, arent you the one talking about people having a condescending tone earlier ? I suggest you read again your whole post and think about the tone YOU use here.

I took that tone intentionally. As I've said before it's because i think someone throwing that crap out there with "reo thinks Jade is C tier" is just disgraceful to his analysis of her. The spirit of that tier is what reo thinks should be the goal for NRS balance team not that they are bad. It's a mid tier and that's really nothing to be alarmist over in my opinion.

And I can tell you (but you can watch that Geras vs Jade vid, same conclusion) : this character has zero chance to compete against high tier characters as it is now.

Dafuq did we watch the same video? Dude does work and goes 2/3 and 1/3 with some insanely close matches against a character everyone is calling broken, makes it to the grand finals with some notable players and you say she cant compete? He comes out stating the match up is 5/5 and your only takeaway is "Jade cant compete"?

Just want a few buff ... not any nerf to current good characters, though.

This is where our major disagreement lies and that's fine. While I think it's more appropriate to nerf outliers than buff the "balanced" characters, you think the other way. I think Jade could see some love or some changes but more on the minor side than having a 20f overhead midscreen launcher (or 21f low midscreen launcher like you propose for her 124).

 

[HeavyNorse]

YAAAASS!!!

ToT with Jade's Honored Tradition skin as a reward is up NOW and I just got it!

 

[Geoffmeister]

@Wrath0594 honestly didn't give Jaded much of a chance.. but from what I gathered so far..

• None of her cancels are plus... her pressure game isn't something to be exploited anyway..
• Any situation where pole vault is a good idea... it can lose to d2 by reaction. I had a thought on how her Pole Vault Amped would still suck with i-frames/armor
• She can use this to bait moves.. on paper.. in reality she cancels way too slow to really bait something out that won't kill her first
• She loses her main offense tool
• She loses her ability to bait jumps, low projectile does offer some more space control...
• .. and more!

Basically, she could have this in base set, and I don't think I'd use it much anyway. If something gets done with this variation, I will be very surprised.

@AK Harold
Dude... it's the first month, expect people not to know everything about 'underdog' variations.. never to be seen again.... THTB is performing magic tricks with Jade because he's a good player, the way I see it, had he wanted to play any of the top tiers, he'd probably have taken that tournament.
What invalidates Jades viability is how clear her options compare to characters with the same gameplan/toolkit. As it stands, you'd be a fool to pick her right now and expect results, let alone majors.
So instead of fitting these claims to something it's not.. dispute this. Why pick Jade over Sub, Liu or Kabal.... or Kitana!?
Go over the list...
Distance closer, full-screen threat, oki, close mids, ranged mids, (whiff) punish potential, air threat, low/high profiling options, pressure, mixups, normal safety, special safety, defensive options, wall carry, hitconfirm potential... etc etc... I can name better tools for each of those characters in comparison to Jades'.

I feel like I shouldn't be able to do that? When others have a similar experience, maybe they're not all downplaying? It's like I write this stuff in detail for nobody lol..

So you get to work harder and get less reward for doing the same thing.. If that's a conscious design choice, then I like it to be clear that anyone playing her competitively is gimping him/herself. and on top of using a fundamentally crippled character.

Prove me wrong, Harold. Prove me wrong. ps: i'd play you, put my money where my mouth is, but I'm EU and connection is terrible

Also, on a last note, balance in MK11 is substantially better than previous titles...so none of this is as dramatic as it sounds... but yeah prove me wrongf!

 

[THTB]

Watching THTB take minimal risks and losing against BV is enough proof for anyone.
Tay is a seriously good player and look at how little effort Geras takes in deleting Jade's healthbar even when the players are equally high level.

I lost because of a lot of my own errors. I can beat Burrito...we are training partners. He's bodied me in tournament then 5 days later, it's the polar opposite. Burrito was having his own issues with the matchup and has a lot of the same thoughts I do on the matchup, even if he won. If I can take it to game 5, final round, imagine what someone who was better could do. Or even what I can do with just cleaner play? There were things I could have been doing better myself. Who knows how that could have gone...especially since the only thing changing that whole Winners Finals was me admittedly trying too hard for a poke war bait into fatal blow lol? Woulda had more time to adjust had I been in winners. I only figured out the glow options in Grand Finals.

This is only 2 weeks in. We'll have plenty of future matches to evaluate.

 

[Arqwart]

The more I play Jade in certain matchups (Liu, Erron, Jax, Jacqui, Sub), the more I want Nitro Kick to go further than it does. I fully understand that its distance is designed to be limited as a small extension on her midrange shenanigans, but it feels really bad watching characters like Liu span most of the screen and punish a full screen Glow for free just by taking a couple steps and kicking.

Small rant over. Thanks for your time.

 

[Wrath0594]

Not worth losing air rang. Thats the only thing that lets her compete in many matchups.

Jade doesnt want to be reallllly close and -4 against most of the cast. Her kit works only at range.

Are people really just getting demolished by air rangs that badly? I could see it if it were fullscreen or something. Then it would force an approach and give you an edge stuffing them on the way in. I need to see it in some high level play before I can view it as essential.

I also don't see how -4 is a big deal. B2 is -13. That means the entire cast can punish it with reversal special. People with fast reaching starters like Cassie can net a full combo. B2 on it's own is 85 dmg. Cancelling it into pole vault makes it a 185 dmg knockdown that's now safe on block. Same thing happens with f2 if you want a safe OH poke. Or b1 if you want a safe mid. B343 is -7, and it's arguably her best move. Obviously there's the threat of the last hit, but you should see my point. If -7 were that bad, no one would ever use b343. Or use Liu Kang's f43 for that matter, but they do.

And I feel like the V2 nitro kick is undervalued. In V1 you almost never get anyone into a corner, because every time you convert for meaningful damage, you push them back to midscreen when you amp the nitro kick. Being able to push people into the corner is HUGE when you have extended combos in the corner using deadly butterfly that you don't have anywhere else.

I feel like it's worth exploring is all, and I haven't seen V2 mentioned much.

My 2 cents.

.

What tourney was it? Any footage up?

stuff... how do you @ people? I legit don't know.

Have you tried recording pole vault off block strings? My d2 is inconsistently trading with it if I mash. It doesn't seem reactable to me.

 

[AK Harold]

Listing just a few items because I know it's wasted breath.

Sub
Weaker d2
No projectile immunity
Worse walk speed
No air projectile amp OR no mid projectile
Gets out footsie by Jade
Has a walk control in slide then loses mid projectile
Weaker staggers then Jade
No counter

Kabal
Worse walk speed
Weaker d2
No projectile immunity
No walk control move
Either has useful air projectile or low projectile

Liu
No air projectile diagonal
Short limbs lack of space control
No projectile immunity

The others lose a lot to gain a lot. If you favor the other tools that are more apparent then that is your value system. They all have higher controlled damage with their crushing blows. Don't declare that this character is invalid for it. There is a large difference from saying that Jade is not top tier and that Jade is not competitive.

I would like to see her get more fun crushing blows etc. But y'all are asking for her to gain too much without losing anything.

 

[AK Harold]

@Geoffmeister just come meet me at Evo we can mm

 

[GLoRToR]

I lost because of a lot of my own errors. I can beat Burrito...we are training partners. He's bodied me in tournament then 5 days later, it's the polar opposite. Burrito was having his own issues with the matchup and has a lot of the same thoughts I do on the matchup, even if he won. If I can take it to game 5, final round, imagine what someone who was better could do. Or even what I can do with just cleaner play? There were things I could have been doing better myself. Who knows how that could have gone...especially since the only thing changing that whole Winners Finals was me admittedly trying too hard for a poke war bait into fatal blow lol? Woulda had more time to adjust had I been in winners. I only figured out the glow options in Grand Finals.

This is only 2 weeks in. We'll have plenty of future matches to evaluate.

I saw that, but I'm not going to criticise you, especially not on an open forum.
I don't give people advice who can dunk my ass, I'm not some random dude online that thinks he's the shit and nobody else could possibly be right.

The argument here is not whether Jade can win matches, the argument is people saying she could be and needs to be so much better.
Our random rants about what COULD be better are just wild guesses and is something you, yourself solve with "let's wait and keep trying" in our private conversations which is perfectly fine as an opinion.

I just don't want her obvious issues to get dismissed on "But THTB won with her".
People who think I'm the enemy for wanting Jade to be good will go out of their way to see her crash and burn just to see me wrong.

I labbed Geras vs Jade.
I know what's going on in that matchup.
You have a good Geras to LIVE it with, I'm sure there won't be much conflict in our opinions.
I'll poke you on Datcord in a bit.

 

[HeavyNorse]

I don't give people advice who can dunk my ass, I'm not some random dude online that thinks he's the shit and nobody else could possibly be right.

He obviously picked the wrong costume colour.

 

[GLoRToR]

Listing just a few items because I know it's wasted breath.

Sub
Weaker d2 - Factually Incorrect. Sub's D2 is perfectly fine for its purpose. It's an anti-air with which he'll anti-air jump-ins perfectly fine. Jade's D2 has more reach forwards but it's not going to be a reason to pick her over Sub.
No projectile immunity - Doesn't need it. He trades favourably with Jade, and likely with most people, but he doesn't NEED to play the range game.
Worse walk speed - Again walk speed is rarely a reason to pick a character over another unless the difference affects the matchup drastically.
No air projectile amp OR no mid projectile - No, just a safe mixup.
Gets out footsie by Jade - Arguably. All Jade has to do is read an iceball or a mixup wrong and she'll lose more hp in one hit than she can come back from in 3 hits.
Has a walk control in slide then loses mid projectile - Again, not a zoner. And slide blows up Glow almost anywhere on screen.
Weaker staggers then Jade - Staggers might be weaker but that's because he has a safe mixup.
No counter - No counter to what?

Kabal
Worse walk speed - See above
Weaker d2 - See above
No projectile immunity - No, just a restand, superior combo damage, similar air projectile, and a FB that literally stops people from moving when they don't have a significant life lead. Among other things.
No walk control move
Either has useful air projectile or low projectile

Liu
No air projectile diagonal - His air projectile is straight ahead and can blow up Jade's on reaction.
Short limbs lack of space control - His low Blockstring literally beats out d4s and his fireballs control an insane amount of space while he clearly doesn't need to worry about teleporters either.
No projectile immunity

None of your arguments bring any facts to the table that would make anyone pick Jade in a money match over Liu, Kabal or Sub. Yes, she has tools that these characters don't have. But you omit the fact that they don't need those tools because their tools are better.

The others lose a lot to gain a lot. If you favor the other tools that are more apparent then that is your value system. They all have higher controlled damage with their crushing blows. Don't declare that this character is invalid for it. There is a large difference from saying that Jade is not top tier and that Jade is not competitive.

Jade literally struggles against Liu, Sub, Scorp, Erron, Sonya, to name a few. Saying she's not competitive might be a slight exaggeration on my part, because as we have seen THTB play her against Geras (who's a 5-5 btw, classic keepout vs get-in) she can put up a bit of a fight, but this doesn't cover the fact that she DOES have issues and she DOES need fixes.

I would like to see her get more fun crushing blows etc. But y'all are asking for her to gain too much without losing anything.
You misunderstand. I don't have any definitive wants other than that I want her to be the equal of those who are her betters now.
I want her to be great and stay great.

Everything else is just guesswork and pointing out problems I see.

 

[THTB]

I saw that, but I'm not going to criticise you, especially not on an open forum.
I don't give people advice who can dunk my ass, I'm not some random dude online that thinks he's the shit and nobody else could possibly be right.

The argument here is not whether Jade can win matches, the argument is people saying she could be and needs to be so much better.
Our random rants about what COULD be better are just wild guesses and is something you, yourself solve with "let's wait and keep trying" in our private conversations which is perfectly fine as an opinion.

I just don't want her obvious issues to get dismissed on "But THTB won with her".
People who think I'm the enemy for wanting Jade to be good will go out of their way to see her crash and burn just to see me wrong.

I labbed Geras vs Jade.
I know what's going on in that matchup.
You have a good Geras to LIVE it with, I'm sure there won't be much conflict in our opinions.
I'll poke you on Datcord in a bit.

Jade has her shortcomings. No one here is unaware of that. Not myself, Harold, Espio, etc. The thing is, though, we can't ask for buffs for things in a game we are barely beginning to learn. We don't know what she truly needs. That's not to say anyone is wrong at this point on the subject of Jade, because, at this point, no one truly knows this game to a T yet. We could be sitting on a gold mine of a character, we could be sitting on a dud.

Let's just learn.

 

[GLoRToR]

Jade has her shortcomings. No one here is unaware of that. Not myself, Harold, Espio, etc. The thing is, though, we can't ask for buffs for things in a game we are barely beginning to learn. We don't know what she truly needs. That's not to say anyone is wrong at this point on the subject of Jade, because, at this point, no one truly knows this game to a T yet. We could be sitting on a gold mine of a character, we could be sitting on a dud.

Let's just learn.

I think there is this misconception that, for example, saying f2 is trash is some sort of condemnation which makes me ultimately right.
I said this before but I don't think I know what exactly she needs changed other than that her risk reward is not in her favour right now.
The rest is me going to the lab and trying things after, for example, getting curbstomped by a Sub-Zero or Liu or Scorp online and shaking my head.

 

[DrZmmm]

I would like to see those top tier/bs characters recieve nerfs. For the most part, Jade is exactly how an MK11 character should be imo. Hell, most of the roster is actually. Bring the top tiers down to the level where the majority of the roster seems to be at.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

I´ve entered into Jade´s world because I unlocked one of my favorites brutalities of the game, the pole vault one...AWESOME.

I really like this char(the vault variation), I come from Skarlet so I appreciate SPACING:
midscreen: B2-vault all day.
mid-long: F21/124 is a decent oh/low mixup
close pole vault makes everything safe, aldo B343 is ...+5 on block? that´s pressure. F34 is a low starter.
long distance: proyectile inmune,then, shadow kick with KB option, vault pressure,

Combos:? easy 200-250 solid online combos without meter is not bad.

I think people complain about not having 350 1 bar combos,they want to jump into a char with a youtube combo video and thats all. They need to play more MK11

 

[Miasmata123]

I´ve entered into Jade´s world because I unlocked one of my favorites brutalities of the game, the pole vault one...AWESOME.

I really like this char(the vault variation), I come from Skarlet so I appreciate SPACING:
midscreen: B2-vault all day.
mid-long: F21/124 is a decent oh/low mixup
close pole vault makes everything safe, aldo B343 is ...+5 on block? that´s pressure. F34 is a low starter.
long distance: proyectile inmune,then, shadow kick with KB option, vault pressure,

Combos:? easy 200-250 solid online combos without meter is not bad.

I think people complain about not having 350 1 bar combos,they want to jump into a char with a youtube combo video and thats all. They need to play more MK11

I find Jade's toolkit so diverse and unique just in her normals and that's why I love her. Most characters you learn their advancing string, their OH/low options, and some basic combos and you can see a ton of success. Most characters I'm also left wondering why the hell they even have half the strings they do, like Sonya has a million strings and half just seem to be various punches or kicks I never see people use.

But Jade you gotta learn the proper spacing of all her normals and how to use them properly. B2, 124, f21 are like specials with how unique they are. I think that's pretty cool.

 

[haketh]

The fact “Faster walkspeed isn’t a consideration for picking a character” was said speaks volumes