Question - Summoner It is time for some real Quan talk

[Haou Shoukou Ken]

@I GOT HANDS lmfao "no you muppet" hahhaha im stealing that

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I like how everyone is talking about nerfing Summoner, but bring up Sorcerer's top 8 placing at evo to prove how broken he is

Yo I think you kinda missed what transpired here brother, lol, look again who brought up Quan Chi at EVO, and who is using it at the basis of their argument lol

 

[The_Tile]

"People disagree with us so close the thread"

Or something more along the lines of, "People disagree with me and keep saying the same nonconstructive points over and over again without asking for help or bothering to lab any of his setups".

even other Quan Chi players have spoken out against these silly buffs.

So what exactly is the problem? Cause we've got people complaining about his damage, his low bat, his vortex, his unbreakable damage, even his B2 which is his only footsie tool. Also we have people moaning about the 6f D1 and the charged B2, despite it being a trivial buff.

If people actually made it clear what their problem is I'm sure more of us would come to an agreement. His buffs he got in the last patch were completely unnecessary with the removal of the block infinites, but we've got people saying ridiculous stuff like make low bat hit mid and stop B2 from being special cancellable, which would nuke all his variations and is just a stupid idea full stop.

 

[STRYKIE]

So if you do a safe string against quan, block. If he d1s, its -9, which is punishable by pretty much the entire cast

Just a PSA: Pokes leave you in a crouching state, you can not punish them with high jabs. You would need either a 9 frame special, or a 8 frame normal that hits mid or low.

And there's not a particularly huge list of those in this game.

Either way, I think a lot of people are still jumping the gun on this D1 buff, the notion seems to be that because it's 6 frames, it ticks all the same boxes as Kotal's D1, Shinnok's D1 etc. If anything, it probably helps the counterpoking game of Warlock more than anything. For Summoner, it's really just an insurance policy against potential block infinites.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

So what exactly is the problem? Cause we've got people complaining about his damage, his low bat, his vortex, his unbreakable damage, even his B2 which is his only footsie tool. Also we have people moaning about the 6f D1 and the charged B2, despite it being a trivial buff.

If people actually made it clear what their problem is I'm sure more of us would come to an agreement. His buffs he got in the last patch were completely unnecessary with the removal of the block infinites, but we've got people saying ridiculous stuff like make low bat hit mid and stop B2 from being special cancellable, which would nuke all his variations and is just a stupid idea full stop.

I don't know I only speak for myself, but I think he was fine before the patch aside from the Pseudo-unblockable but that's more of a global change to those things, and apparently Quan Chi players never use that anyway so I guess that's trivial. I don't think he should have been touched from that point, that being said I don't care if he gets changed back or not, I enjoy the challenge he provides, but these threads are too juicy not to participate in

@I GOT HANDS trolls the shit out of everyone (ha got @EGP Wonder_Chef this time)

Word, me posting well composed and highly reasoned out arguments with supporting logic fully provided = trolling right because it disagrees with you

GAV posting 30 memes in a row of crying babies = quality posting amirite




You have no bias I'm sure

 

[The_Tile]

I don't know I only speak for myself, but I think he was fine before the patch aside from the Pseudo-unblockable but that's more of a global change to those things, and apparently Quan Chi players never use that anyway so I guess that's trivial. I don't think he should have been touched from that point, that being said I don't care if he gets changed back or not, I enjoy the challenge he provides, but these threads are too juicy not to participate in

I actually do completely agree with you, he was fine pre-patch bar the pseudo-unblockable fixes which needs to be universal, not just Quan. Like you said, I only speak for myself, but I just don't want the character to get nuked into low tier. Which if NRS take any suggestions from these threads that's definitely gonna happen.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

I believe the best way to practically balance this game from where it stands is to both buff the bottom characters and nerf the top ones. Let's arbitrarily say this should be done for top 5 and bottom 5.

Following this logic, it doesn't matter how broken he is. If you agree that Quan is top 5, then he should be nerfed, regardless of whether he's "balanced, but top 5" or "stupid".

Once this chore is done, they can then do the same thing except for variations instead of just characters. There will always be tiers, but the goal should be to close the gap in these tiers as much as possible.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I actually do completely agree with you, he was fine pre-patch bar the pseudo-unblockable fixes which needs to be universal, not just Quan. Like you said, I only speak for myself, but I just don't want the character to get nuked into low tier. Which if NRS take any suggestions from these threads that's definitely gonna happen.

I feel much the same. The agenda pushing biased idiots in here might accuse me of trolling, or hating Quan, or saying he was OP back during EVO or whatever other ridiculous shit they come up with to divert the discussions or the conversation (I've noticed they LOVE to attack the person and not the argument lol) but heres what I said about Quan BEFORE the latest patch:

If anything changes than a fix to the 1 frame block links, and a fix to his bugs, it'll be a poor change. QC does not need nerfs at this point.

 

[legion666]

I don't know I only speak for myself, but I think he was fine before the patch aside from the Pseudo-unblockable but that's more of a global change to those things, and apparently Quan Chi players never use that anyway so I guess that's trivial. I don't think he should have been touched from that point, that being said I don't care if he gets changed back or not, I enjoy the challenge he provides, but these threads are too juicy not to participate in




Word, me posting well composed and highly reasoned out arguments with supporting logic fully provided = trolling right because it disagrees with you

GAV posting 30 memes in a row of crying babies = quality posting amirite




You have no bias I'm sure

In every Nerf Quan thread (this is the 4th now by the way) you post so much! Who is that awesome Quan player that gives you so much MU experience in offline sets against the character to make you believe you understand the character?!?
And every time you reply to someone, it eventually turns into you offending people personally in one way or the other. That is why I consider it trolling.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

In every Nerf Quan thread (this is the 4th now by the way) you post so much! Who is that awesome Quan player that gives you so much MU experience in offline sets against the character to make you believe you understand the character?!?
And every time you reply to someone, it eventually turns into you offending people personally in one way or the other. That is why I consider it trolling.

WonderChef quoted me and started questioning what I had to say not the other way around. But yeah nevermind that, it's just me trolling him right. You have no idea

I've made like 3-4 posts in here on my own, the rest is me responding to people directing arguments at me. Also, you've posted a lot in each of those QC threads too dude, so kinda (massively) hypocritical

But that's ok, it's a public forum. Not really sure what the issue is, people wanna speak their opinions on MKX this the site for it breh

I'm tryna get my postcount up and I get a shitload of likes for posting the truth in these threads, plus they are juicy as hell and I like laughing at the downplay

 

[legion666]

WonderChef quoted me and started questioning what I had to say not the other way around. But yeah nevermind that, it's just me trolling him right. You have no idea

I've made like 3-4 posts in here on my own, the rest is me responding to people directing arguments at me. Also, you've posted a lot in each of those QC threads too dude, so kinda (massively) hypocritical

But that's ok, it's a public forum. Not really sure what the issue is, people wanna speak their opinions on MKX this the site for it breh

I'm tryna get my postcount up and I get a shitload of likes for posting the truth in these threads, plus they are juicy as hell and I like laughing at the downplay

Man, I play the character since launch as my secondary, I play a lot of good players offline who main the character. I actually take time to study all the tech the character has got. I think I have some understanding of the character at least, that is why I post in Quan forums. That is why I asked you about the experience of playing Quan or playing against a competent Quan player offline. I don't see any hypocrisy in that. The issue is you always getting off topic and taking everything personal and even offending people.
And you know that I agree with Quan being top 5 and have nothing against buffing the universal unblockable protection in mkx. The rest of his tools are really good and top tier, but they aren't more broken then what other top 5 have. Both Summoner and Sorcerer still get pressured hard by heavy rushdown, their defense is still one of the worst in the game.
If anything all the people who whine about Quan were able to accomplish by saying nonsense in Dink's thread that suggested giving Quan a 6 frame poke was NRS hearing out the better player and giving him the suggested buff)) So keep up the good work guys!!
@STB Shujinkydink could you please create a thread suggesting Ex Rune becoming unblockable?!) all the haters are going to blow this up so much that I think NRS will give us even that)

 

[The_Tile]

Man, I play the character since launch as my secondary, I play a lot of good players offline who main the character. I actually take time to study all the tech the character has got. I think I have some understanding of the character at least, that is why I post in Quan forums. That is why I asked you about the experience of playing Quan or playing against a competent Quan player offline. I don't see any hypocrisy in that. The issue is you always getting off topic and taking everything personal and even offending people.
And you know that I agree with Quan being top 5 and have nothing against buffing the universal unblockable protection in mkx. The rest of his tools are really good and top tier, but they aren't more broken then what other top 5 have. Both Summoner and Sorcerer still get pressured hard by heavy rushdown, their defense is still one of the worst in the game.
If anything all the people who whine about Quan were able to accomplish by saying nonsense in Dink's thread that suggested giving Quan a 6 frame poke was NRS hearing out the better player and giving him the suggested buff)) So keep up the good work guys!!
@STB Shujinkydink could you please create a thread suggesting Ex Rune becoming unblockable?!) all the haters are going to blow this up so much that I think NRS will give us even that)

Omg an unblockable MK9-like ExRune which could be combo'd from like the Puggles Fireball while they're still standing would make me be like:

But I digress...

 

[Insuperable]

 

[The_Tile]

As soon as I saw the words "Insuperable replied to the thread...", I knew a bucket load of sensible debate was coming the haters' way.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I didn't say Quan being in top 8 at Evo shouldn't hold a lot of weight. Obviously Quan is super good.

The point of this thread is people saying Quan is TOO good though and needs to be nerfed.

Well by that logic, is every character that made top 8 at Evo TOO good?

I'm pretty sure your logic is weaker than mine in that regard.

i think the best answer to your question is Cyrax

 

[NEONiCONJUNiOR]

Am I the only one that thinks if Quan is so broken he should be winning tournaments? Lol.
Could just be my thoughts, he's in top 8 a lot but I wouldn't consider him this god tier when he's not blowing through winners brackets

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

It's really hard to have a debate about Quan Chi.

Quans think the struggle is real because all they can do is 50 50/unblockable people to death.

Non Quans think the struggle is real because they're all getting unblockabled and 5050'd to death.

It's kinda hard to argue that there's skill in playing Quan, in the same way that it's kinda hard to argue that there's a skill in fighting against/defending against Quan.

HOWEVER, there are only 2 Quan players that I personally would consider a threat in the NRS tournament scene. Both Ketchup and Michaelangelo clearly. Nobody else comes close.

I suppose it's a pretty common concept for many characters, for example, you could probably count on one hand the true reps for each character. Most you won't even make to 5.

As a community we are pretty whack at our own game.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

It's really hard to have a debate about Quan Chi.

Quans think the struggle is real because all they can do is 50 50/unblockable people to death.

Non Quans think the struggle is real because they're all getting unblockabled and 5050'd to death.

It's kinda hard to argue that there's skill in playing Quan, in the same way that it's kinda hard to argue that there's a skill in fighting against/defending against Quan.

It's like I've said many times, he's a very oddly designed character because of this factor.

He's an all or nothing character that just has to go all in the second he lands a hit. When you steamroll someone due to that Quan feels way too good, but when he struggles to deal with what happens once he finally gets hit, it feels like your character is over exaggerated.

Finding the middle ground about Quan is almost impossible. Unless you take Warlock into account which requires meter for absolutely everything.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

The question was immediately answered by someone else

You are the only person using tourney results as proof or logic to make any conclusions at all, if you want my thoughts on the matter:

I didn't make any statements involving the logic of his placing at EVO, other than the fact that logically it disproves the argument that Quan Chi needs those buffs because he can't place at tourneys, the insinuation that you were making to begin with. So let's move past this silly myth that tourney results are what we should be balancing characters on.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

It's really hard to have a debate about Quan Chi.

Quans think the struggle is real because all they can do is 50 50/unblockable people to death.

Non Quans think the struggle is real because they're all getting unblockabled and 5050'd to death.

It's kinda hard to argue that there's skill in playing Quan, in the same way that it's kinda hard to argue that there's a skill in fighting against/defending against Quan.

HOWEVER, there are only 2 Quan players that I personally would consider a threat in the NRS tournament scene. Both Ketchup and Michaelangelo clearly. Nobody else comes close.

I suppose it's a pretty common concept for many characters, for example, you could probably count on one hand the true reps for each character. Most you won't even make to 5.

As a community we are pretty whack at our own game.

Absolutely spot on. There's just a very clear distinction between how it feels to play Quan compared to how it is to use Quan. I think most people will be surprised to find that playing Quan doesn't mean you automatically get to 50/50 everyone to death. There's a stronger emphasis on correct spacing, patient play and a very strong awareness of meter and health for both players when playing Quan than there is for many characters in this game (at least for me, or this might just be due to the fact that my gameplan is more refined with Quan than anyone else).

 

[wsj515]

I also love how nonames imply that Michaelangelo, Yams, Shujinkydink and others are scrubs for not placing that much with an absolutely broken ass character. And who do we have complaining here again?!?!? Oh yeah! People who don't even go to tournaments.

I 100% stand by what I said. Just because I am a "no name" doesn't mean it isn't true. I never called them scrubs, I just said that they aren't strong enough players to properly represent the character in major tournaments, where the competition is sonic fox, DJT, etc. Doesn't mean they are bad players, in fact they are great, they just aren't able to compete with the caliber of player I listed earlier.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I believe the best way to practically balance this game from where it stands is to both buff the bottom characters and nerf the top ones. Let's arbitrarily say this should be done for top 5 and bottom 5.

Following this logic, it doesn't matter how broken he is. If you agree that Quan is top 5, then he should be nerfed, regardless of whether he's "balanced, but top 5" or "stupid".

Once this chore is done, they can then do the same thing except for variations instead of just characters. There will always be tiers, but the goal should be to close the gap in these tiers as much as possible.

yeah but this will never be done if noone can agree on a top5 or bottom placement?

 

[GAV]

There's a poll up the top keeping track of who's "winning". As far as discussion goes, your last 20 posts have all been bad memes and pictures of babies crying and shit. QC players are asking for the thread shut down because they don't like what's being said about their character, while people not drinking the QuanKoolaide aren't asking for shit lol, and even other Quan Chi players have spoken out against these silly buffs. Only a direct denial of reality is the only way I could see anyone genuinely thinking Quan players "won" this thread, but whatever lol, I don't see it as a war anyway, just a discussion, just one being constantly dragged down by people's moronic self-serving agendas, as well as idiotic pictures and memes that everyone just ignored. You personally deliberately trashed this thread by spamming it up as much as you could FROM THE OPENING PAGES ONWARD so don't complain that "it's a mess and should be closed" when you went out of your way to make it the mess it became, so that you could get the thread closed because you don't want the discussion/poll you guys are overwhelmingly losing to happen at all lol.

I tried playing Quan, but I'm not very good with him - so I have no dog in this fight - other than the side of right.

This thread is a landslide.

Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[GAV]

I don't know I only speak for myself, but I think he was fine before the patch aside from the Pseudo-unblockable but that's more of a global change to those things, and apparently Quan Chi players never use that anyway so I guess that's trivial. I don't think he should have been touched from that point, that being said I don't care if he gets changed back or not, I enjoy the challenge he provides, but these threads are too juicy not to participate in




Word, me posting well composed and highly reasoned out arguments with supporting logic fully provided = trolling right because it disagrees with you

GAV posting 30 memes in a row of crying babies = quality posting amirite




You have no bias I'm sure

No bias at all. I'm just pointing out what's right in a fun way.

No one has proven Quan Chi to be overpowered. No one has even provided any plausible evidence to say that he could be.

 

[GAV]

TYM needs a New Post Cat...