Is Scorpion bottom 10?

[sub_on_dubs]

Yes. Anyone who worships Powder should be dead last. Face it Scorpion, your people were defeated by an inferior clan called the Lin Kuei and Powder(Quan Chessy) isn't gonna bring them back. Your people are free.

 

[Flagg]

Enenra, Why is Noob the worst though?

Im not disagreeing with you, but I think NS has way more set ups. At the end of the day, Scorpion has a vortex which he hopes he can get going if he lands a spear. I think there may be more to Scorpion, I just think he is played at the moment by people in a bit of a gimmicky manner.

 

[quandaghost]

As a scorpion main, imma be honest. Yes he does have some issues. No he doesnt have footsies. No he doesn't have a frame trap. i almost never lose a match b/c i can't figure out a way to get in or because i cant vortex someone. Hell your scorpion if you play him correctly why just rely on the vortex to just get your damage. Why not have vortex set-ups. Why not try to be prepared for your opponents reactions. My least worry is "If I can get a vortex". You should know that you are gonna get a vortex set-up off of any combo you do. You should have a void combo that happens off of your vortex combo. You should be able to anti air. all of those things which lead into a max of like 36% combos some 42%.

Most scorpions go for the obligatory b2 or f4 after the f2,1 teleport they forget about the f3, they forget after every teleport you get a free hellfire. Now why do those set-ups? They put you at neutral? yes they put you at neutral. Yes your opponent can do something, but isn't the fact that THEY have to do something whether its a punishable move, a d1, f3, or a x-ray either way you are forcing someone to commit to an action.

so what options do you have at neutral hmmm? you could dash back b2 them if they jump forward for a full combo back into a vortex, into a void, ect. you could njp them into a full combo back into a vortex void, if your confident they wont do anything use one his safe strings. In the corner in stead of just doing the easy 2,1 2,1 2,12 string after your ex teleport, why not do 2,1 3,3 teleport, 1,1 spear for a another void attempt that does 42 to 47 percent easy one bar, that gives you the option to f4 or d3 I mean i know im saying D3 like its good ( and i know Its not), but it the fact that you have a chance to start a guessing game that your opponent is either gonna react to, or not do anything at all because they may fear getting punished for it.

or instead of when you land a f4 on your vortex why not 2,1+2 xx spear them? I mean you get a void attempt, you can f4 again, you can b2, you can d3, you can d1. the point im trying to make here is scorpion has options. He has things that the opponent has to consider. Scorpion to me is a character that requires good reads, knowing how to bait, and knowing how to punish effectively.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

scorp bottom 10? man just don't pay attention to tier list at all. Until people actually have played all the top lvl scorps, they can't just say he's bottom 10. Tbh, tier list don't mean nothing, it's all about the player. For example, cd jr/ tyrant with jax, denzell with sub, me and slips with scorp, curbo with cage, etc. A skilled player can make a character who seems trash, excellent.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

LOL no... not even close.

The vortex and void save him from that fate.

 

[Enenra]

Enenra, Why is Noob the worst though?

Im not disagreeing with you, but I think NS has way more set ups. At the end of the day, Scorpion has a vortex which he hopes he can get going if he lands a spear. I think there may be more to Scorpion, I just think he is played at the moment by people in a bit of a gimmicky manner.

As a has been Noob main, his lack of damage and therefore comeback factor midscreen, coupled with the insane recovery on his projectiles are a character breaking thing.

What Noob is good at is winning trades. He can outzone all the other zoners (except Smoke). However, he sucks against the zoners that can get in,characters with solid pressure, and any cast members with teleports or fast advancing specials. If a character even guesses right and jumps a clone, put down the controller and enjoy your kombo.

If Noob loses the life lead, GG. No comeback factor besides Xray, which you need to use that meter for breakers, so you are screwed.

Scorpion has top 3 comeback potential, nice kombos and punishment, decent pressure, and nice counter zoning (armored spear). He is extremely unsafe (which is balanced) but what really cripples him is his ass footsies. That's why I can never find success with Scorp, I use way too many footsies.

They both are good, but I think Scorpion's ability to come back, pressure, and do more than just be a counter pick for Kenshi takes the cake.

I would LOVE if Noob got an extra 5% damage on his BnBs, faster recovery, etc so that instead of being a utility char he could be a team leader. And then get respect and tournament use. But alas, I doubt he will so I learned other characters.

IMO all Scorpion would ever need is solid footsies and that mofucker is set. If you gave him Sub's D4, then he is top 10. D4 into 50/50 would destroy.

 

[MagicMan357]

NO

end thread

 

[RTM2004]

He's probably bottom 10 yea. 16 Bit pretty hit the nail on the head. Not having a fast advancing safe move, not having the normal frame advantage everyone else gets with d4 on hit, having an essentially non-existent d3, and not having a decent special move to buffer these pokes into is pretty devastating in the footsie game.

Does Scorpion at least have a 6-4 match up where he can beat up characters worst than him badly perhaps like Kano, Jade, Sheeva or Baraka in general? I can tell you a Scorpion player (beginner or high level) that sits full screen using Hellfire is extremely annoying and they get to Teleport/Spear when their opponent jumps XD

 

[quandaghost]

Does Scorpion at least have a 6-4 match up where he can beat up characters worst than him badly perhaps like Kano, Jade, Sheeva or Baraka in general? I can tell you a Scorpion player (beginner or high level) that sits full screen using Hellfire is extremely annoying and they get to Teleport/Spear when their opponent jumps XD

not to mention we can double hellfire some characters and if you want triple hellfire with meter

 

[Saint]

I dont see why 334 should end in overhead, I'm more for giving 33 a little more range though. This way you can punish blocked d+1's and stuff a lot better. Giving advantage on scorpions d+4 would be insane because essentially he would get a free 50/50 off any connected d+4. Advantage on d+4 could make him a top character.

As for 3, forget the range and drop it down to 9 (maybe even 8 frames? wishful thinking). That'd help him combat close pressure much better

D3 and d4 should at the very least be neutral on hit, positive could be too big of a jump I agree.

His hellfire isn't discussed too much but I'm not sure if I agree on the enhanced version being neutral on hit. There should be a slight advantage to it in my opinion.

 

[THTB]

LOL no... not even close.

The vortex and void save him from that fate.

You need more than comeback factor to save yourself.

Fundamentals are becoming too large of a factor to ignore.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

You need more than comeback factor to save yourself.

Fundamentals are becoming too large of a factor to ignore.

Right, but when you can get someone into the 50/50 of the vortex from the ground or from the air... you can do some big damage quick. I wouldn't call that bad.

But I don't play scorpion...

 

[quandaghost]

Right, but when you can get someone into the 50/50 of the vortex from the ground or from the air... you can do some big damage quick. I wouldn't call that bad.

But I don't play scorpion...

the vortex is a small part of it. Its still a great tool. You really need to be able to understand what it takes for scorpion to get in, stay in, and avoid things. Like i like using the vortex just to make sure you're not going anywhere when i have the life lead, if i have to try something then im using the vortex to force reactions or, or to reset. scorpion can change a match in a second, but he has to risk way too much for it sometimes.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

the vortex is a small part of it. Its still a great tool. You really need to be able to understand what it takes for scorpion to get in, stay in, and avoid things. Like i like using the vortex just to make sure you're not going anywhere when i have the life lead, if i have to try something then im using the vortex to force reactions or, or to reset. scorpion can change a match in a second, but he has to risk way too much for it sometimes.

You have a teleport... I don't wanna hear about getting in...

*looks at Sub and cries*

 

[quandaghost]

You have a teleport... I don't wanna hear about getting in...

*looks at Sub and cries*

man scorpions teleport is ass, don't let that fool you. Maybe i just think its ass. Idk but to be safe I think its ass

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

man scorpions teleport is ass, don't let that fool you. Maybe i just think its ass. Idk but to be safe I think its ass

Yeah, it's not very good... but at least you have two ways of trying to get in. Your choice of how you want to be blown up...

 

[quandaghost]

Yeah, it's not very good... but at least you have two ways of trying to get in. Your choice of how you want to be blown up...

reed you seen me play i get in b/c i hit someone into a vortex until then im just looking at you, and doing strings

 

[GrandMasterson]

Scorpion is my favorite MK character; I've mained him since MK1, but I'm so close to setting him aside as a novelty character in MK9.

You can't rely on the vortex. A 50/50 is a terrible primary strategy. His footsies are laughable, his normals are just okay, nearly all of his strings are unsafe, his wake-up game is too situational to be advantageous, and he simply requires too many reads to be effective. Basically, I'm tired of gambling my way through the entire match. Scorpion almost ALWAYS has to play the opponent's game, where the only game Scorpion has is hellfire/teleport mixups, the vortex, and D1 anti-air, all of which are incredibly risky.

I only wish for 2 Scorpion buffs: for hellfire to have advantage on hit, and for 3 and 3, 3 to have less recovery frames. That's all. D4 and D3 can stay shitty if I was given those tools.

How do you place a slot machine in a tier list?

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

reed you seen me play i get in b/c i hit someone into a vortex until then im just looking at you, and doing strings

I know! You're an amazing scorpion...

I was making a joke, hence the little "" face. lol

Anyway, I still don't think scorpion is bottom 10. You've got a move that will get them moving/jumping and after they get moving they are on their way into the vortex which can cause big damage. Get the damage and get out b/c you don't have great pokes.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

As long as scorp has a vortex, which can be made safe if u play scorp like me, then he is good. Same thing with quans rune trap and cyrax resets. tbh while some players say scorp trash, have they even fought a high lvl scorp or just some random trash scorp?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Perfect example of a character being proven to be good was big d at FR with nightwolf. Now before FR ppl were saying he was bottom 5. All of a sudden big d get top 8 with just wolf basically. Proving my point that it is the player that matters, not some opinionated list.

 

[Scoot Magee]

You're talking about the low damage safe version of the vortex right? Like f4 takedown, 111 pressure and ect. Those are good options but scorpions main problems are what he has when he doesn't have you in the vortex. He really doesn't have much outside of hellfire and good anti airs. His down four is acceptable but really how does he deal with a character who has a superior ground game (most of the cast)?

 

[quandaghost]

You're talking about the low damage safe version of the vortex right? Like f4 takedown, 111 pressure and ect. Those are good options but scorpions main problems are what he has when he doesn't have you in the vortex. He really doesn't have much outside of hellfire and good anti airs. His down four is acceptable but really how does he deal with a character who has a superior ground game (most of the cast)?

Yes the safe versions, including some others i have some success with. My sentiments exactly on the ground game though, but that's why i think we need to find more ways to keep our opponents playing our game. To me the vortex is a tool to hold the opponent in place so that you may set-up another vortex, or make the opponent react and do something unsafe.

I usually do well with air-to -air jp into vortex, or dash back b2 if i predict a jump. My vortex uses void, and things like the f3, hellfire, or 2,1. Not to contnue the vortex, but to pressure my opponent sometimes, or make them do something punishable, make them panic. i think we get caught up on the vortex and the resets rather than the vortex and the options. ex. 1,1 xx spear, jip f2,1 xx teleport hellfire with that you are at neutral and most people will jump or block idk why, but you can njp to stop the jip and vortex, grab if you think they will sit there, d1 3,3,4, (his random advantage string) i mean he has options that can make the vortex more than just a reset it makes it an important part of his overall game.

One of the set-ups i have success with 1,1 xx spear, 2, 1+2 xx spear, f4 (void) xx spear, jip, f2,1 teleport, f3 if blocked you wont be punished, its neutral leaving you room to d1, 3,3,4 if you can, or grab if you think they wont do anything. If i trade with projectiles I try to teach them not to throw them by double hellfiring them thats and inescapable 16 percent. triple if you wanna use 1 bar.

or I will instead of going for vortex use 1,1 xx spear, njp, (short dash) b2, jik xx teleport, dash, 3 xx teleport, teleport because you end up on the other side of your opponent, crossing up their inputs, if they did a wake-up attack you could block it for a vortex combo of your choice. you can b2 some peoples wake-up like noobs with this set-up if you use it and if you predict an uppercut you can d3, 3,34.

I just think that scorpion has things that people aren't using or b/c the vortex has this or the void has that, and now its predictable cause everyone only does 2 or maybe 3 things. they don't find ways to make the opponent guess or, they just use vortex and no void. you should never know what scorpion is doing when he vortex's you it should always be a guess a guess you have to commit to. I mean correct me if im wrong, i'm not trying to belittle anyone or saying anything condescending. I just want to know why is he bottom besides that he doesn't have footsies and is high risk b/c you can play safe.

 

[cgerrr]

He's probably bottom 10 yea. 16 Bit pretty hit the nail on the head. Not having a fast advancing safe move, not having the normal frame advantage everyone else gets with d4 on hit, having an essentially non-existent d3, and not having a decent special move to buffer these pokes into is pretty devastating in the footsie game.

I got to play Death for the first time last night, who clearly plays better footsies than I do. But at the same time it felt like even if I was on his level in the footsie department it would be hard. And yes the whacky armor happenings where the moves go right through people is just icing on the cake.

Oh the divine retribution: I still remember the time when Slips ridiculed me for saying that Scorp is not really tournament viable. And now he admitted it himself. Ah the sweet "see, I told you so"...

 

[Slips]

Oh the divine retribution: I still remember the time when Slips ridiculed me for saying that Scorp is not really tournament viable. And now he admitted it himself. Ah the sweet "see, I told you so"...

You were right but for the wrong reasons. Don't act like your some kind of prophet saying the world will end in 2012 because the ice caps will melt when a meteor strike happens instead.