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Is Scorpion bottom 10?

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
Scorpion...well. Scorpion sucks with how the game has advanced in the footsie department. Can you win with him? Possibly; but it's a lot of work.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Scorpion...well. Scorpion sucks with how the game has advanced in the footsie department. Can you win with him? Possibly; but it's a lot of work.
Why is everyone talking footsies all of a sudden?

Only about 20% of the community can give an accurate definition of footsies​
Less than 10% of us can play mediocre footsies​
Just a quick question, can you tell me what makes Scorpion's footsies lack?
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Why is everyone talking footsies all of a sudden?

Only about 20% of the community can give an accurate definition of footsies​
Less than 10% of us can play mediocre footsies​
Just a quick question, can you tell me what makes Scorpion's footsies lack?
-Bad frame data on generic lows.
-Slow advancing normals.
-General lack of range on basically anything physical.

These three things fuck up Scorpion's footsies heavily.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
-Bad frame data on generic lows.
-Slow advancing normals.
-General lack of range on basically anything physical.

These three things fuck up Scorpion's footsies heavily.
Dammit THTB the question was rhetorical! lol
I wanted to see if he knew.
Most players on the boards just spit up what they hear and not actually study or experiment themselves.
 

Grolarbears

Apprentice
As a has been Noob main, his lack of damage and therefore comeback factor midscreen, coupled with the insane recovery on his projectiles are a character breaking thing.

What Noob is good at is winning trades. He can outzone all the other zoners (except Smoke). However, he sucks against the zoners that can get in,characters with solid pressure, and any cast members with teleports or fast advancing specials. If a character even guesses right and jumps a clone, put down the controller and enjoy your kombo.

If Noob loses the life lead, GG. No comeback factor besides Xray, which you need to use that meter for breakers, so you are screwed.

Scorpion has top 3 comeback potential, nice kombos and punishment, decent pressure, and nice counter zoning (armored spear). He is extremely unsafe (which is balanced) but what really cripples him is his ass footsies. That's why I can never find success with Scorp, I use way too many footsies.

They both are good, but I think Scorpion's ability to come back, pressure, and do more than just be a counter pick for Kenshi takes the cake.

I would LOVE if Noob got an extra 5% damage on his BnBs, faster recovery, etc so that instead of being a utility char he could be a team leader. And then get respect and tournament use. But alas, I doubt he will so I learned other characters.

IMO all Scorpion would ever need is solid footsies and that mofucker is set. If you gave him Sub's D4, then he is top 10. D4 into 50/50 would destroy.
You underestimate Noob. Don't waste time with a lot of zoning. His D4 is amazing, imo.
 

Enenra

Go to hell.
You underestimate Noob. Don't waste time with a lot of zoning. His D4 is amazing, imo.
He is good, but in a game full of phenomenal characters, good isn't good enough. And why the fuck would I want to go toe to toe with your JCs, Jaxs, Rains, Kitanas, Sub Zeros, KLs....
You get what I'm saying?
 

Grolarbears

Apprentice
He is good, but in a game full of phenomenal characters, good isn't good enough. And why the fuck would I want to go toe to toe with your JCs, Jaxs, Rains, Kitanas, Sub Zeros, KLs....
You get what I'm saying?
I feel you, but only two, possibly three of those characters are even match ups Noob has to work especially hard in.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Slips, what do you think are some reasonable buffs that Scorpion should get? Generic frame advantage on d+4? A couple of +frames on EX hellfire? Better hitbox on EX spear?
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Slips, what do you think are some reasonable buffs that Scorpion should get? Generic frame advantage on d+4? A couple of +frames on EX hellfire? Better hitbox on EX spear?
All those are great!
I think If F+3 went active sooner and hit twice (once on the way up and then again on the way down like the kick from MKDA)
A regular D+3
Advantage on D+4
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Slips, what do you think are some reasonable buffs that Scorpion should get? Generic frame advantage on d+4? A couple of +frames on EX hellfire? Better hitbox on EX spear?
There's quite a few things you could do to make it work. Making b2 safe would be a simple enough and make a difference. Making his d4 and d3 have normal + advantage like the rest of the cast would work. Speeding up f3 would help, I like KOE's suggestion. Or tweaking takedown so it recovers better on whiff and more advantage on hit so it allows for legit wake-ups.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
There's quite a few things you could do to make it work. Making b2 safe would be a simple enough and make a difference. Making his d4 and d3 have normal + advantage like the rest of the cast would work. Speeding up f3 would help, I like KOE's suggestion. Or tweaking takedown so it recovers better on whiff and more advantage on hit so it allows for legit wake-ups.
I'm all for your suggestions...well, except making b+2 safe. LOL. I wish NRS would do another sensible hotfix and buff some of these low and mid tier characters to keep the game fresh and exciting for Evo this year.

What are your plans, though? Are you switching characters?
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
I think Paulo actually had in mind to make Scorp's b+2 safe in one of the patches but he was talking to 16 Bit at Evo and he told Paulo that was a bad idea so now I'm fucked. Shout out to Osu 16 Bit. :p

And it might be too much actually anyway, I just like blaming all my losses on 16 Bit for that one suggestive moment in time lol.

Scorp is still my main because I blame myself for playing footsies poorly more than Scorpion having poor footsies. Him having the bare bones footsies helps improve a lot anyway so...

Its like playing with the donut weights in baseball...but instead of just using them in the on deck circle I'm actually using them at the plate. :p
 
I think Paulo actually had in mind to make Scorp's b+2 safe in one of the patches but he was talking to 16 Bit at Evo and he told Paulo that was a bad idea so now I'm fucked. Shout out to Osu 16 Bit. :p

And it might be too much actually anyway, I just like blaming all my losses on 16 Bit for that one suggestive moment in time lol.

Scorp is still my main because I blame myself for playing footsies poorly more than Scorpion having poor footsies. Him having the bare bones footsies helps improve a lot anyway so...

Its like playing with the donut weights in baseball...but instead of just using them in the on deck circle I'm actually using them at the plate. :p
he needs normal d3 and d4, better recovery on whiffed hellfire, so people don't have a free way to get in on you after whiffing the hellfire unless you whiff it at very close range. better recovery on whiffed spear. a normal that is 9 frames, like other characters usually have. and he needs to be able to do more chip damage, which helps him build meter, that will make the vortex less risky because he has more acces to breakers.
 

cgerrr

Tourney id: Gfc_alekS
You were right but for the wrong reasons. Don't act like your some kind of prophet saying the world will end in 2012 because the ice caps will melt when a meteor strike happens instead.
Haha, it's just excuses. And I won't dwell into my reasoning (which still stand): all it matters that I was/am right. Don't be salty man, I don't have any beef with you now (though to be fair you should be kind of exposed for wrongfully belittling me for no reason).
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Haha, it's just excuses. And I won't dwell into my reasoning (which still stand): all it matters that I was/am right. Don't be salty man, I don't have any beef with you now (though to be fair you should be kind of exposed for wrongfully belittling me for no reason).
lol I'm not salty dude. I didn't belittle you for no reason. Your reasons for why Scorpion wasn't tournament viable had a novice mentality as to why the character wasn't good. I've already proved you wrong. You said Scorpion wasn't tournament viable and then I got 1st, 2nd and 2nd in the next 3 tournaments I entered. I'm the one going out trying to make things work with Scorpion while you gave up 8 months ago cause you were mad you can't throw out spear all day without repercussions lol.

Your arguments as to why Scorpion struggles didn't expose why the character isn't good. It just exposed why you aren't good.
 

quandaghost

kung lao swag walker
For you to come on here and try to even do this slips is funny man. That man has done more for this character than anyone on this site. Slips hasaa gone out and played tournies and won, placed, helped new comers, innovated the character. Now what have you contributed to this character? i have never seen you post anything in the scorpion forums. I have never even heard of you as a scorpion player. If your gonna doubt slips at least be a tournament player like myself, or be someone who has at least tried to help this character in some eay shape or form instead being louse.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
lol I'm not salty dude. I didn't belittle you for no reason. Your reasons for why Scorpion wasn't tournament viable had a novice mentality as to why the character wasn't good. I've already proved you wrong. You said Scorpion wasn't tournament viable and then I got 1st, 2nd and 2nd in the next 3 tournaments I entered. I'm the one going out trying to make things work with Scorpion while you gave up 8 months ago cause you were mad you can't throw out spear all day without repercussions lol.

Your arguments as to why Scorpion struggles didn't expose why the character isn't good. It just exposed why you aren't good.
Hey man I tried but it didn't work out. You are the one STILL trying though lol. I gave up recently.
 

GrandMasterson

The Netherrealm beckons
Making B+2 safe would be awesome, but I think Scorpion has other problems besides a punishable overhead launcher:

Sweep is -6 on block
D3 is -7 on hit and D4 is 0 on hit
Both takedown and EX takedown is -4 on block
The second hit of F3, 4 whiffs on crouch ducking
3 is -7 on block, 3, 3 is -8 on block
2, 1+2 is -20 on block
1, 1, 4 is virtually useless because you can't link anything after it, it's -8 on block, and on hit it's an untechable knockdown so it just ends Scorpion's pressure
Hellfire is 0 on hit
EX tele is easily stuffed

Honestly, I would be happy with enough advantage on hellfire for Scorpion to continue pressure, and for 3 and 3, 3 to be safe on block. 3 and 3, 3 both hit mid, and making them safe on block would dramatically improve Scorpion's footsie tools. Hellfire should have advantage because you SHOULD be rewarded with more than a measly 7% for guessing right if using something as whiff punishable as hellfire.

Some armor on EX tele would make me cum, but I won't push it. In any case, I'm not giving up on Scorpion. I think sticking with him will make me a better player overall.
 

cgerrr

Tourney id: Gfc_alekS
lol I'm not salty dude. I didn't belittle you for no reason. Your reasons for why Scorpion wasn't tournament viable had a novice mentality as to why the character wasn't good. I've already proved you wrong. You said Scorpion wasn't tournament viable and then I got 1st, 2nd and 2nd in the next 3 tournaments I entered. I'm the one going out trying to make things work with Scorpion while you gave up 8 months ago cause you were mad you can't throw out spear all day without repercussions lol.

Your arguments as to why Scorpion struggles didn't expose why the character isn't good. It just exposed why you aren't good.
Ok, It seems you're confusing me with the someone else or mixing some person arguments with mine, because you're rude assumption about me "giving up" or "throwing out spear without repercussions" is baseless empty assumption which you're just fabricated out of the air. And I'm good enough to be in the first 2 and 5 in the 2 recent tourneys I've attended, so again - baseless rude assumptions.

Oh, btw your previous wins when people did not really know how to play the game irrelevant (relatively to discussion in hands of course): please win with Scorp now against decent competition (Reo, CD brothers etc.) when everybody and their grandmothers know the match-up and prove my past arguments wrong.

Tl dr:
You're still a stubborn dick, who can't approve anybody's opinion but yours, even if it has the right to live. And I'm still right. I'm pleased with situation, thus I have nothing to add, except maybe: stay salty me friend.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Oh, btw your previous wins when people did not really know how to play the game irrelevant (relatively to discussion in hands of course): please win with Scorp now against decent competition (Reo, CD brothers etc.) when everybody and their grandmothers know the match-up and prove my past arguments wrong.
lol I like that you consider 'decent' comp are the 4 best players in the country. So with the players I've beaten in tourney with Scorpion, 16 Bit, Dizzy, Tom Brady, PL's Kung Lao...I guess they are all trash right?

I also like how you are telling me to stay salty when you are the one resurrecting an argument you lost 8 months ago. lol Jesus