Interactables need to be disabled for tournament play

[HomeLee1121]

There's only one way to show if interactables are truly broken. Play matches without attacking and use interactables only.......

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Getting rid of interactibles is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You'd do less collateral damage to the game's meta if you simply banned the DLC characters, given those characters tend to have control over interactibles that actually make it unfair.

I still think it's ridiculous we're talking about banning interactibles before DLC characters- when we openly acknowledge these characters aren't designed to be balanced, but they're designed to be so good they sell.

So, why not try a tournament with DLC characters banned? Just make an exception that Captain Oxygen can still play whoever the hell he wants.

I see your argument, but you already outlined a problem at the end of course. For every ridiculous DLC character in the game, there's another one that's perfectly fine. I don't want to see Oxygen and Deg have to drop their characters. Then if we go the route of banning *just* the big 3 it starts becoming a slippery slope.

 

[vegeta]

 

[16 Bit]

I still think it's ridiculous we're talking about banning interactibles before DLC characters- when we openly acknowledge these characters aren't designed to be balanced, but they're designed to be so good they sell.

So, why not try a tournament with DLC characters banned? Just make an exception that Captain Oxygen can still play whoever the hell he wants.

Who's "we"? This is just something you made up. We cannot ban characters based on some community members views on developer intent.

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water, let's tell Scorpion, Lobo and Zatanna characters they can't play their main lol.

 

[Tony at Home]

I see your argument, but you already outlined a problem at the end of course. For every ridiculous DLC character in the game, there's another one that's perfectly fine. I don't want to see Oxygen and Deg have to drop their characters. Then if we go the route of *just* banning the big 3 it starts becoming a slippery slope.

Yeah, that's kinda the issue. The only way to get rid of characters designed to be better than everyone else is to use broad strokes, because we can't just rely on our own judgement.

And alot of people have unfortunately already picked up DLC characters that are actually well-designed, like Zatanna and Lobo. We're kinda too far in to do anything about it.

But it leaves the question if we should just pre-empt the problem in future games, and just start telling players, "don't pick up the character that was made S+ tier to sell more units, and expect there to not be an issue with it down the road"

 

[16 Bit]

I am totally against this idea for the record. I would not support GGA trying it.

 

[DarkPage]

I haven't really worked Interactable set ups or combos into my game so yeah go ahead ban em and save me the trouble lol

 

[1man3letters]

Yeah, that's kinda the issue. The only way to get rid of characters designed to be better than everyone else is to use broad strokes, because we can't just rely on our own judgement.

And alot of people have unfortunately already picked up DLC characters that are actually well-designed, like Zatanna and Lobo. We're kinda too far in to do anything about it.

But it leaves the question if we should just pre-empt the problem in future games, and just start telling players, "don't pick up the character that was made S+ tier to sell more units, and expect there to not be an issue with it down the road"

 

[THTB]

I see your argument, but you already outlined a problem at the end of course. For every ridiculous DLC character in the game, there's another one that's perfectly fine. I don't want to see Oxygen and Deg have to drop their characters. Then if we go the route of *just* banning the big 3 it starts becoming a slippery slope.

Exactly. It's literally half the DLC characters that control interactables in a ridiculous way, and then the other half really doesn't.

Banning DLC isn't the answer.

Honestly, this is all stupid.

 

[Tony at Home]

Who's "we"? This is just something you made up. We cannot ban characters based on some community members views on developer intent.

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water, let's tell Scorpion, Lobo and Zatanna characters they can't play their main lol.

I'm judging the number of "likes" on PL's original post as number of agreement, so I'm assuming there's a good amount of momentum behind and against banning interactibles. But forgive me if I'm projecting my thoughts on the developers- yet I'm pretty much 100% sure that was their intent: make DLC characters really good to sell more.

Also, yeah, it's totally unfair for people who are playing DLC characters that were well designed and balanced. But to just say "I think we should only ban the OP DLC characters" is to mistakingly think we can use our best judgement to decide which characters are banworthy or not- maybe none are.

But my issue isn't with the characters being OP, its that the design philosophy behind them is categorically against what the design of competitive fighting game characters should be. Of course NRS would make DLC characters to be better, because that's what gets sales.
It's not their fault it makes sense. You sell more DLC if they're better characters. Yet conversely, they sell more copies of the games initially if the original cast is balanced. If a DLC character isn't a step above the original cast, it wasn't because they weren't trying.

So DLC characters NEED to be better to sell more DLC, and original characters NEED to be balanced to sell more copies of the original game. How is this a new, controversial opinion that this economic reality might be categorically opposed to what a tournament-level fighting game should have?

 

[16 Bit]

Ok well this is literally just something you've made up in your head based on no facts or information so we're not basing tournament rules on it.

 

[Tony at Home]

Ok well this is literally just something you've made up in your head based on no facts or information so we're not basing tournament rules on it.

Banning DLC isn't the answer.

Honestly, this is all stupid.

I totally agree actually. At least know that I'm completely aware of how dumb and untennable the idea of banning DLC characters all together is.

Stupid problems often have stupid solutions. I'll give stupid solutions all day, so long as people see the stupid problem behind it.

If I can draw more attention to the issue that NRS is making DLC characters with the poor-design consideration in mind of making them better to sell, I have no problem taking all the blowups and shots in the world, as long as it increases demand that future DLC be made to be well-designed, balanced characters.

 

[THTB]

its that the design philosophy behind them is categorically against what the design of competitive fighting game characters should be

It still hasn't occurred to people that this game isn't designed to be traditional in the first place. This game was made on the principle of something that hasn't been really done in fighting games, and the general design of just about everything in this game is about abusing godly bullshit.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Can we just get a new patch?

-Zod can't use interactibles while trait is available
-Manhunter has less health than the rest of the cast
-Batgirl is a paraplegic again

Problem solved

 

[Tony at Home]

It still hasn't occurred to people that this game isn't designed to be traditional in the first place. This game was made on the principle of something that hasn't been really done in fighting games, and the general design of just about everything in this game is about abusing godly bullshit.

I'm all for breaking tradition- but I kinda like the tradition that character design should keep balance as a higher priority than making them so good as to sell more.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

IMO zod is the only one that really abuses interactables. He gets a free 40% unavoidable off nearly every one in the game. You can't jump, you can't get hit or its free >40%. Unless you have a tele you better rush his down.

 

[iShinnok03]

It still hasn't occurred to people that this game isn't designed to be traditional in the first place. This game was made on the principle of something that hasn't been really done in fighting games, and the general design of just about everything in this game is about abusing godly bullshit.

Isn't that the way NRS designs all their games?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

IMO zod is the only one that really abuses interactables. He gets a free 40% unavoidable off nearly every one in the game. You can't jump, you can't get hit or its free >40%. Unless you have a tele you better rush his down.

and sinestro with trait?

 

[GuamoKun]

Best feeling ever is seeing someone trying to throw an interactable at me and teleporting behind them and punishing them. It's like....


Yeeeeeeeeeeeh

 

[RIF]

and sinestro with trait?

Not in the same category as MMH and Zod.

I disagree with P2W that Zod has better interactable control than MMH. They are on the same level. MMH can set out orbs to keep you away from the interactable. If you don't have a tool to get around the orb (air dash, air hitting move, etc) then you are basically going to get hit.

Edit: I fixed it. Thank you for pointing it out...again...and again..and again

 

[TurboTaco]

I like interactables, makes the game feel unique compared to others.

 

[iShinnok03]

I disagree with P2W that Zod has better interactable control than Zod.

Dat paradox.

 

[juicepouch]

Who's "we"? This is just something you made up. We cannot ban characters based on some community members views on developer intent.

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water, let's tell Scorpion, Lobo and Zatanna characters they can't play their main lol.

is there even 1 serious scorpion main in the offline scene anymore?

Can we just get a new patch?

-Zod can't use interactibles while trait is available
-Manhunter has less health than the rest of the cast
-Batgirl is a paraplegic again

Problem solved

I would absolutely main oracle.

 

[Pnut]

Zod has better interactable control than Zod.

Edit: Shit ...

 

[deathblooms2k4]

Interactables are there for balancing purposes in most cases excluding Killer Frost who is just bad anyway. Removing interactables would just make characters like Batgirl and Flash win everything and Ares even more obsolete

I loled at your "interactables are in the game for balance.". Really all of those free interactables MMH gets is handicapping him so the rest of the cast can compete?

Interactables were put in the game to add another element and detail to the game, they are fluff that do way to much damage. Similarly stage transitions were designed as fluff. To be honest interactables add fun to the game if you look at it from a casual standpoint. Similarly in smash brothers items are fun from a casual perspective.

But at a high level SSB items and injustice interactables are a joke. They add an element of luck and randomness to matches that can often negate true skill which is what you should really be looking for when analyzing a game at it's most competitive level.

Lets be honest like most other devs NRS designs their games for casuals first. That's where they are going to sell millions of units. Unfortunately what that means is there are bound to be some casual elements are that are bad for competitive play, sometimes a competitive community is smart enough to determine whatt those are and establish a ruleset that works for the scene, sometimes not so much...