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Injustice 2 is a Problematic Game

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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
This thread is meant to be constructive
Right, sure it was:

I was not in a positive or constructive state of mind
Well, clearly.

We often talk about how players from other communities disparage our community and developer. Well, we don't help the situation in the slightest by starting these rumors within our own community and maligning our own developer out of self-hate.

I have to concede that this game is the worst example of corporate greed and incompetence
The game is borderline unplayable in its current state.
Rather than releasing a complete, working title, NRS has released a mess of of a fighting game with lopsided matchups, unfinished characters, input bugs, and money-grubbing strategies.
They have sold us out to nickel and dime the Gamefaqs and Eventhubs casuals. Gear was supposed to be optional, but it has overtaken every facet of this game. Rather than making money by releasing a quality title that thousands of people will buy, they're releasing an incomplete, buggy, $65 (or $100) title that tries its very best to goad you into dropping as much additional cash as possible. It's shameful.
This game is riddled with 7/3 and 8/2 matchups
As it stands, there is no reason to play 90% of the roster
Who balanced this piece-of-shit game?
piece-of-shit game
People often ask how we can get our games to a better place, with better visibility and treatment at events. And while we've definitely come a long way (And anyone who was here for MK9, when we were lucky to even have a stream at certain events, can attest to that), part of the answer is: by having some respect for our own community and developer first.

So yes -- there are plenty of ways to make mature, constructive points for improving a game. But we're not going to start these posts by couching the points in dev-bashing and hate-fueled hyperbole. I'm no longer going to put up with that here.

The goal is to build this community up year by year, not help tear it apart. We have a lot of work to do, and we're not going to do it by bashing and spreading baseless rumors about a dev that's cool enough to stream every other week and give public shoutouts to players they liked who didn't even place. So please be mindful of that (everyone) when you make your threads.
 
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RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Now you're straight up lying.

When posters pointed out that her cancels build as much meter as Batarangs, you didn't refute it.

When posters pointed out that you could use it to get in, all you had to offer was, "yeah well he still has trait!"

The talking point went from "she can't get in, 10-0," to "she can't deal with trait. 9-1"

You're so incredibly full of shit. You even said, "Batman has to make no reads" to me when I very deliberately pointed out scenarios where he does.

It's pretty dumb.
Pretty sure I did address the BL cancels; if I didn't then I meant to but got sidetracked defending the thread from all the shit-talkers.

I also didn't "change" anything. I conceded that 10/0 was hyperbole. That's what the shit-talkers wanted. But sure enough, you concede to a shit-talker and they're just going to talk more shit. /shrug

Not going to derail this thread anymore; everything you just brought up is addressed in that thread, including me bringing up trait; really, trait was the main point of the thread. Maybe the mods can reopen it and we can go from there.

Look, I'm not full of shit. I can totally understand why anyone reading my posts would write me off as a scrub. I get it, I promise. I have no motive to deceive anyone (what the fuck good would it do, anyway?). This is an online forum; the bullshitters are always going to get called on their bullshit. I'm just airing my grievances with the game and apparently some people can't handle that. That's not my problem.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Right, sure it was:



Well, clearly.

We often talk about how players from other communities disparage our community and developer. Well, we don't help the situation in the slightest by starting these rumors within our own community and maligning our own developer out of self-hate.















People often ask how we can get our games to a better place, with better visibility and treatment at events. And while we've definitely come a long way (And anyone who was here for MK9, when we were lucky to even have a stream at certain events, can attest to that), part of the answer is: *by having some respect for our own community first*.

So yes -- there are plenty of ways to make mature, constructive points for improving a game. But we're not going to start these posts by couching the points in dev-bashing and self-hate-fueled hyperbole. I'm no longer going to put up with that here.

The goal is to build this community up year by year, not help tear it apart. We have a lot of work to do, and we're not going to do it by bashing and spreading baseless rumors about a dev that's cool enough to stream every other week and give public shoutouts to players they liked who didn't even place. So please be mindful of that (everyone) when you make your threads.
U know what to say now
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
@KingHippo I have no issue with anyone referring to the input window as a bug. If you try to punish with a bf special and you get a backdash, it's a bug. If you try to reversal with a special, but a completely different one comes out, it's a bug. Sure, the input window is doing what it's designed to do, in holding on to inputs for a certain period of time, but if that window is too big, and it bungles inputs then the system is broken, i.e. bugged. Where is this apologist tone coming from for something that is clearly busted?
That's because calling it a bug is too out of proportions. Even if it was something that can and should be changed, calling it a "bug" is just wrong. Yes, it might be too inconvenient to some people, but if this was intentional, it can't be a bug. A bug is something that goes against what was intended for a software, but this thins was most likely intentional, meaning that it was not against it. So even if it might be inconvenient, the fact that it was intentional just means that you, the player, have to deal with it and adjust to it. Even @Pig Of The Hut came and said that he should've say "adjust" rather then "fix" because this would tackle this thing more properly. And the fact that you and a lot of the people (no offense) jump on the bandwagon and call it a bug, make this thing look a lot more uglier then it actually is, and this can only give the game some bad rep that it shouldn't get, and that's the last thing we need. So if you wanna tackle an issue, even if it's a legit one, at least choose your words more carefully, and then of course, check if this thing is even a real issue.

This is also what I wanna say to @karaokelove after reading so many posts without responding. Aside that @CrimsonShadow pretty much showed why your way of sayings was destructive rather then constructive, regardless of that, what you did was opening yet another "complaining thread", talking about stuff that were already been discussed (the "input bug", the game balance, the Gear moves) and some really nitpicky stuff (the interface) while the main thing about this is site is too give guides, tech and tips for NRS games, and people are just sick and tired to see these threads getting opened up with some tweaks here and there. That is why they go to Discord, because there are no complaining thread titles for them to see and getting disgusted by them. Of course everyone can express their opinion, but like I said earlier, if you wanna do it, at least be reasonable with your words, and in this case, your rants, because then you pretty much guaranteed to get some backlash towards you, if not a lot of it. Even if Injustice 2 itself doesn't get a bad rep, I will tell you what does get it, and that is Test Your Might, as now more and more people will go to Discord to talk about the game there. And if you, @karaokelove , and other people just keep making complaining threads, constructive or not, and not to mention spreading negative rumors about NRS and WB that can easily get people to jump on the bandwagon, and then let other people to make even more threads like that just to get what they want, because "screw everyone else, I don't care how many threads like this were already posted, I only wanna get what I want", this can only hurt the community in the long run.

That's my thing about this. I'm not here to insult anyone, but I had say it.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
In amy case, you're lucky that I have more patience with you than others probably would. But patience isn't unlimited; and so if you continue bashing the developer, the game and the staff, you'll find yourself at the end of it soon.

You need to find a less-extremist way to make your points. So take this as a diplomatically-worded word of caution. Figure out how to dial it back and get your message across.
wow you should NOT be a mod with this attitude


You may not agree with his points (read my last post in here, I am pretty much the polar opposite to karoake in terms of reception to this game and disagreed with like everything he said), but one thing he does is express them articulately, give very clear reasoning for WHY he feels that way, and does it without flaming people.

I personally think a large reason people get so flustered is that karoake forces you to use reasoning to beat him, instead of the regular trolling you see on here. And this is from someone who absolutely disagrees with pretty much everything he said in the OP - he delivered his opinion in the right way.

I can't speak for CS, but to chime in - this type of thread is flat-out depressing. That in combination with rising use of Discord (or perhaps, the declining use of the forums) just results in somewhat of a toxic atmosphere - something the NRS community already has infamy for.

Everybody should be free to express their opinion, but there are better ways to do so than OP's.
No. People go to Discord because they have something to say, but for whatever reason would rather say it on Discord than TYM. That is a broad explanation that covers pretty much everyone on there. But if you censor people posting opinions on here and they will come to Discord and chat with the community about it on there. People reacting negatively to mods censoring people just because they disagree with something are also likely to want to leave. Thread's like this will not make anyone stop posting here and post on Discord. You don't want to read it then don't click it, or just put karoake on ignore. Can't put censorship, infractions, or mods on ignore. The one thing I agree with karoake on here is what he said about is Discord. Shit like that IS one of the reasons why people go on Discord and I know it is because I've seen it said like 100 fucking times by people ON Discord. Also you can't hit someone with moderation powers because his thread has "a toxic attitude" when the OP isn't toxic at all and basically all the toxicity is people responding to him with it because they are unable/unwilling to rationally dispute his points, that's the most bias shit I've ever heard.
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
wow you should NOT be a mod with this attitude


You may not agree with his points (read my last post in here, I am pretty much the polar opposite to karoake in terms of reception to this game and disagreed with like everything he said), but one thing he does is express them articulately, give very clear reasoning for WHY he feels that way, and does it without flaming people.

I personally think a large reason people get so flustered is that karoake forces you to use reasoning to beat him, instead of the regular trolling you see on here. And this is from someone who absolutely disagrees with pretty much everything he said in the OP - he delivered his opinion in the right way.


No. People go to Discord because they have something to say, but for whatever reason would rather say it on Discord than TYM. That is a broad explanation that covers pretty much everyone on there. But if you censor people posting opinions on here and they will come to Discord and chat with the community about it on there. People reacting negatively to mods censoring people just because they disagree with something are also likely to want to leave. Thread's like this will not make anyone stop posting here and post on Discord. You don't want to read it then don't click it, or just put karoake on ignore. Can't put censorship, infractions, or mods on ignore. The one thing I agree with karoake on here is what he said about is Discord. Shit like that IS one of the reasons why people go on Discord and I know it is because I've seen it said like 100 fucking times by people ON Discord. You can't hit someone with moderation powers because his thread has "a toxic attitude" when the OP isn't toxic at all and basically all the toxicity is people responding to him with it because they are unable/unwilling to rationally dispute his points, that's the most bias shit I've ever heard.

I don't get how crim has done anything wrong. Karaoke has been on a tear lately and honestly the toxic state of mind isn't something we need right now.
 

JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
@Roy Arkon If something works as intended, but has the side-effect of not reading inputs correctly, then it can't possibly work as intended. I understand NRS gets flak all the time for things, but this is a very fundamental problem that needs to be addressed, in spite of the terminology we use to describe it. Maybe Pig decided to use other language to talk about it, but my point stands; there is no way they intended for the input window to have so many errors on purpose, so it's bugged.
 
The input bug is the only real issue i have with this game so far and it definitely is a huge issue that needs to be sorted out. BUT given we haven't really had a major balance update yet i feel like the game is still relatively balanced in it's vanilla state. There will always be tiers and bad match ups in every fighting game. The different characters have different styles and move sets that work better vs some characters and worse vs others. Look at GL for example in Injustice 1, he got bodied free by every zoner 3-7 but he also had match ups like Grundy which were like 8-2. It's bound to happen unless they make every character have similar play styles.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
@Roy Arkon If something works as intended, but has the side-effect of not reading inputs correctly, then it can't possibly work as intended. I understand NRS gets flak all the time for things, but this is a very fundamental problem that needs to be addressed, in spite of the terminology we use to describe it. Maybe Pig decided to use other language to talk about it, but my point stands; there is no way they intended for the input window to have so many errors on purpose, so it's bugged.
How can you be sure that there is no way they didn't intended to have it this way? I mean, if this was truly a bug, as if it goes totally against the way game should be played, they would've fix it by now. Hell there was a bug-only patch earlier this week, so why they didn't mention anything about it then? Maybe it's because that it isn't a bug, and these "errors" that you put in are, no offense, your own errors of inputting the wrong moves without noticing it? So this is then likely no "side effect" at all, and yes, the term "bug" is too out of proportions.
 

JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
How can you be sure that there is no way they didn't intended to have it this way? I mean, if this was truly a bug, as if it goes totally against the way game should be played, they would've fix it by now. Hell there was a bug-only patch earlier this week, so why they didn't mention anything about it then? Maybe it's because that it isn't a bug, and these "errors" that you put in are, no offense, your own errors of inputting the wrong moves without noticing it? So this is then likely no "side effect" at all.
I mean no offense to you, but there is undeniable evidence it misreads inputs. Absolutely undeniable. You can argue if they intended to increase the buffer window (i.e. basically a default version of the "Input Shortcut" setting) on purpose, but there's no legitimate argument to be had about whether or not it causes errors or if it's the players fault. This is not to even mention the actual problem with the reversal window.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
How can you be sure that there is no way they didn't intended to have it this way? I mean, if this was truly a bug, as if it goes totally against the way game should be played, they would've fix it by now. Hell there was a bug-only patch earlier this week, so why they didn't mention anything about it then? Maybe it's because that it isn't a bug, and these "errors" that you put in are, no offense, your own errors of inputting the wrong moves without noticing it? So this is then likely no "side effect" at all, and yes, the term "bug" is too out of proportions.
Because if it is intended, it destroys many characters punishing options, eg. Darkseid, Superman etc.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
As far as the input bug (or "issue" or whatever you want to call it, I'm calling it a "bug" because I have faith that NRS couldn't have implemented something that shitty on purpose), here is a concrete example that has come up pretty consistently:

I'm Cheetah, and I'm hovering in and out of my opponent's attack range. They strike, I take a step back, and try to whiff punish with f3 (or mb.f3). 10 out of 10 times I get Blood Lunge (or worse, mb.Blood Lunge). 10 out of 10 times. I play on Hitbox, so it's very easy for my to make sure my directional inputs are neutral before I commit to a move. So I stepped back, I let go of back (thus, neutral), then press f3 and bam, accidental Blood Lunge.

And I consider myself lucky! At least Bllood Lunge sends me away to safety. Other players, especially poor Fate players, are getting unintended specials that get them demolished by their opponents. Intended or not, that's a serious problem.

And here's the kicker: while my Hitbox was in the shop and I was playing on pad, my inputs were messy and I had no problems with accidental specials. So literally, the cleaner your inputs, the more likely you are to be punished for it.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I mean no offense to you, but there is undeniable evidence it misreads inputs. Absolutely undeniable. You can argue if they intended to increase the buffer window (i.e. basically a default version of the "Input Shortcut" setting) on purpose, but there's no legitimate argument to be had about whether or not it causes errors or if it's the players fault. This is not to even mention the actual problem with the reversal window.
Of course there are "evidences" regarding this topic, but it still doesn't prove it wasn't intentional or that it doesn't work as intended. I saw the video from @Tom Brady regarding this and even he said that NRS and WB might have put this on purpose for the casual players. Of course they can change it, but if it really was a bug, they would've change it by now. So it's not a bug, as inconvenient as it might look. Unless they would come and say that it wasn't intentional, there is no way we can label it as bug, and from the looks of things, it was intentional indeed.

Because if it is intended, it destroys many characters punishing options, eg. Darkseid, Superman etc.
Then like I said, you the player need to adjust to it with your character.

As far as the input bug (or "issue" or whatever you want to call it, I'm calling it a "bug" because I have faith that NRS couldn't have implemented something that shitty on purpose), here is a concrete example that has come up pretty consistently:

I'm Cheetah, and I'm hovering in and out of my opponent's attack range. They strike, I take a step back, and try to whiff punish with f3 (or mb.f3). 10 out of 10 times I get Blood Lunge (or worse, mb.Blood Lunge). 10 out of 10 times. I play on Hitbox, so it's very easy for my to make sure my directional inputs are neutral before I commit to a move. So I stepped back, I let go of back (thus, neutral), then press f3 and bam, accidental Blood Lunge.

And I consider myself lucky! At least Bllood Lunge sends me away to safety. Other players, especially poor Fate players, are getting unintended specials that get them demolished by their opponents. Intended or not, that's a serious problem.

And here's the kicker: while my Hitbox was in the shop and I was playing on pad, my inputs were messy and I had no problems with accidental specials. So literally, the cleaner your inputs, the more likely you are to be punished for it.
I'm not sure if calling controller inputs "not clean" is the right term, but what if the game didn't know just how to deal with a Hitbox/stick? I mean, if you didn't had any problems of this with the controller, maybe the Hitbox was the issue?
 
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TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
As far as the input bug (or "issue" or whatever you want to call it, I'm calling it a "bug" because I have faith that NRS couldn't have implemented something that shitty on purpose), here is a concrete example that has come up pretty consistently:

I'm Cheetah, and I'm hovering in and out of my opponent's attack range. They strike, I take a step back, and try to whiff punish with f3 (or mb.f3). 10 out of 10 times I get Blood Lunge (or worse, mb.Blood Lunge). 10 out of 10 times. I play on Hitbox, so it's very easy for my to make sure my directional inputs are neutral before I commit to a move. So I stepped back, I let go of back (thus, neutral), then press f3 and bam, accidental Blood Lunge.

And I consider myself lucky! At least Bllood Lunge sends me away to safety. Other players, especially poor Fate players, are getting unintended specials that get them demolished by their opponents. Intended or not, that's a serious problem.

And here's the kicker: while my Hitbox was in the shop and I was playing on pad, my inputs were messy and I had no problems with accidental specials. So literally, the cleaner your inputs, the more likely you are to be punished for it.
Question and yes I know this is a dumb question, but with the input issue do u have the shortcut option off
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Of course there are "evidences" regarding this topic, but it still doesn't prove it wasn't intentional or that it doesn't work as intended. I saw the video from @Tom Brady regarding this and even he said that NRS and WB might have put this on purpose for the casual players. Of course they can change it, but if really was a bug, they would've change it by now. So it's not a bug, as inconvenient as it might look. Unless they would come and say that it wasn't intentional, there is no way we can label it as bug, and from the looks of things, it was intentional indeed.



Then like I said, you the player need to adjust to it with your character.

Thats the point, some characters (eg. Darkseid) cannot do anything about it, regardless of the player.
 
And here's the kicker: while my Hitbox was in the shop and I was playing on pad, my inputs were messy and I had no problems with accidental specials. So literally, the cleaner your inputs, the more likely you are to be punished for it.
yeah thats kinda true
for that same reason i switched from arcade stick (which i use for decades) to pad.
my exe on stick is clean and inj2 is kinda unplayable for me.
my exe on pad is bad but works a little better for inj2!
Lmao?
 
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