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Injustice 2 is a Problematic Game

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JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
Of course there are "evidences" regarding this topic, but it still doesn't prove it wasn't intentional or that it doesn't work as intended. I saw the video from @Tom Brady regarding this and even he said that NRS and WB might have put this on purpose for the casual players. Of course they can change it, but if it really was a bug, they would've change it by now. So it's not a bug, as inconvenient as it might look. Unless they would come and say that it wasn't intentional, there is no way we can label it as bug, and from the looks of things, it was intentional indeed.



Then like I said, you the player need to adjust to it with your character.
Everyone thought the Aquaman trait was a bug and not intended. NRS explained its as intended. If this wasn't a bug, why haven't they explained the situation?

You can't seriously tell me that when I block low as Captain Cold, and go to punish with F22 and I get DF2 instead because the buffer window held my down-block input for a absurd amount of time, that it's intentional. 2+2 can't equal 5 just because you think someone means it to. Yeah, it's very likely the length of the buffer window is intentional, but I will not argue that because the window is so wide it misreads inputs, and that that side-affect is also intentional.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
@karaokelove is spot on.

He right. The inputs in the this game is worse then previous titles.

The buffer in between inputs is wonky and too big.

Only ONE!!!!! ONE dedicated competitive mode to a game that's littered with gear and other things I. I or others don't want or have any wishes to play.

No option to refuse Wi-Fi connections in rank. I don't give 2 mules from sister Sarah about how good it is when it spikes mid combo for me and I have to crouch and recover. No brah. No.

Again. The inputs and buffer suck!

More features should be added to practice mode. Look at Tekken historicity. By far the most advanced practice mode In a fighting game ever. Nuff said.

Koth and player match should by default be competitive mode. Especially Koth.

2 or 3 sets should be a option in rank or have it has a completely separate mode.

Again. I thank @karaokelove for the threads. He's put up some opinions recently that even I don't agree with but he has balls to say it and put himself on blast and in my book's that makes him aight.

Has for discord... TYM can't fight the tide if TYM can't accept the fact that years ago this site was hot. Technology and times have changed but the people... New & old are still here. So as I said in anorther thread take a look back to the past and apply it to the future.




And the inputs still suck.
 

JDM

Noob
man, so much of your post is wrong and some parts are spot on. but you desperately need to educate yourself or get better. because you're just flat out wrong on simple shit, like saying Batman's trait is more plus on block than brainiacs, when batmans has almost no blockstun whatsoever lol.

Also talking about matchups at least you took back that statement.


Gear is great tbh. Idk why you'd be against the gear system. It's literally free customization. It's fantastic. Maybe it could have been implemented better but I haven't even put much effort into it and all my characters look really cool. I love it. Gear moves are just easter eggs for the most part. "Wow this character would be so much better with x move!!"

No shit, the moves aren't supposed to be balanced. They have a base moveset they balanced around and the gear moves are an addition. They are just for fun. If a character is weak, adding a broken/imbalanced move is not what is needed. You balance their actual moveset.

I completely agree there are characters that have too much. That's inarguable. It's mostly the legacy characters, because NRS did a fantastic job at balancing the new characters imo. Characters like Blue Beetle are great at what they were designed to do, they just aren't as good as someone like Batman who can do it all. Why be slightly better at zoning and keepaway than Batman who can do keepaway and rushdown like a madman?

Input bugs need to be cleaned up for sure. I don't struggle with it nearly as much as some other people but it's definitely there.


oh and omg there are people who think Inj 1 was better on release??? Holy shit. The only thing I'd give Inj 1 over this is the inputs weren't fucked. But you definitely did not play Inj 1 at a high level if you think it was better balanced on day 1 than this game.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Thats the point, some characters (eg. Darkseid) cannot do anything about it, regardless of the player.
I mean, no offense, but how Darkseid can't punish anything properly at all whatsoever because of this alone? This sounds too much of an exaggeration to me.

Everyone thought the Aquaman trait was a bug and not intended. NRS explained its as intended. If this wasn't a bug, why haven't they explained the situation?

You can't seriously tell me that when I block low as Captain Cold, and go to punish with F22 and I get DF2 instead because the buffer window held my down-block input for a absurd amount of time, that it's intentional. 2+2 can't equal 5 just because you think someone means it to. Yeah, it's very likely the length of the buffer window is intentional, but I will not argue that because the window is so wide it misreads inputs, and that that side-affect is also intentional.
NRS probably didn't explain about the buffer window because it was too obvious it was intentional, unlike the Aquaman thing. And again, if it wasn't intentional, they would've fix by now in the patch that came earlier this week. And yes, it is possible that if you block low, and wanna go to an F22 string, you might get the D from the block and the F2 from the string and by mistake get the DF2 special because you had an input error. This thing can happen in any fighting game if you mistime your inputs out of pressure.
 

Generalbit

The blade of osh-tekk is stale.
I also need to update the section on Gear moves, because it is not worded well. It does sound like I'm saying gear moves themselves are the cash grab, but that's not what I mean. I'm trying to say that gear moves are catering to the casual players, who are the ones who will be dropping the most money on optional purchases. That, in itself, is not bad, but they're doing it at the expense of character viability. They are releasing gimped characters who require gear moves to be viable. That is the problem. Sorry for not making that clearer.
This is the biggest disagreement. I don't think this is the case at all. Extra moves are always made and the idea that Paulo purposefully left out moves a character needed just to get people to buy mother boxes or play with competitive off is silly and escapist. Saying a character would be better with a certain ability move is completely justified and fine to say, but to say they are gimped or unfinished because the move was purposefully separated to be an ability move is just so wrong to me.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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man, so much of your post is wrong and some parts are spot on. but you desperately need to educate yourself or get better. because you're just flat out wrong on simple shit, like saying Batman's trait is more plus on block than brainiacs, when batmans has almost no blockstun whatsoever lol.

Also talking about matchups at least you took back that statement.


Gear is great tbh. Idk why you'd be against the gear system. It's literally free customization. It's fantastic. Maybe it could have been implemented better but I haven't even put much effort into it and all my characters look really cool. I love it. Gear moves are just easter eggs for the most part. "Wow this character would be so much better with x move!!"

No shit, the moves aren't supposed to be balanced. They have a base moveset they balanced around and the gear moves are an addition. They are just for fun. If a character is weak, adding a broken/imbalanced move is not what is needed. You balance their actual moveset.

I completely agree there are characters that have too much. That's inarguable. It's mostly the legacy characters, because NRS did a fantastic job at balancing the new characters imo. Characters like Blue Beetle are great at what they were designed to do, they just aren't as good as someone like Batman who can do it all. Why be slightly better at zoning and keepaway than Batman who can do keepaway and rushdown like a madman?

Input bugs need to be cleaned up for sure. I don't struggle with it nearly as much as some other people but it's definitely there.
Batman's trait is +7 on block. Brainiac's is -3. If you're talking about Beta Bomb, then yes, it's +70 but you can't really use it without significant setup shenanigans since it goes away if Brainiac blocks an attack..
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
This is the biggest disagreement. I don't think this is the case at all. Extra moves are always made and the idea that Paulo purposefully left out moves a character needed just to get people to buy mother boxes or play with competitive off is silly and escapist. Saying a character would be better with a certain ability move is completely justified and fine to say, but to say they are gimped or unfinished because the move was purposefully separated to be an ability move is just so wrong to me.
What did I say about spreading negative false rumors on NRS?

Right................................
 

JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
I mean, no offense, but how Darkseid can't punish anything properly at all whatsoever because of this alone? This sounds too much of an exaggeration to me.



NRS probably didn't explain about the buffer window because it was too obvious it was intentional, unlike the Aquaman thing. And again, if it wasn't intentional, they would've fix by now in the patch that came earlier this week. And yes, it is possible that if you block low, and wanna go to an F22 string, you might get the D from the block and the F2 from the string and by mistake get the DF2 special because you had an input error. This thing can happen in any fighting game if you mistime your inputs out of pressure.
But that Input Error isn't on the player, it's on how the game reads inputs. Of course it happened in MKX, it's present in all NRS games, but it appears they widened the input window during MKX, but it mostly went unnoticed because it less often rears it's head in a block-button game. Translating it to a back-to-block game makes the issues far more apparent.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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This is the biggest disagreement. I don't think this is the case at all. Extra moves are always made and the idea that Paulo purposefully left out moves a character needed just to get people to buy mother boxes or play with competitive off is silly and escapist. Saying a character would be better with a certain ability move is completely justified and fine to say, but to say they are gimped or unfinished because the move was purposefully separated to be an ability move is just so wrong to me.
We'll just have to disagree on that point, since neither of us can really prove it one away or the other. I appreciate your position, though.
 

JDM

Noob
Batman's trait is +7 on block. Brainiac's is -3. If you're talking about Beta Bomb, then yes, it's +70 but you can't really use it without significant setup shenanigans since it goes away if Brainiac blocks an attack..
Both characters can move while their trait is out. There's no surefire way of saying what they are on block besides the raw blockstun, and the Bats have literally no blockstun, that's why you can do jump over and get a mixup with just bats.


for something to be "plus on block" you have to be in recovery state of the move, ya know? Like input a move, you can move x frames faster than opponent. Brainiac and Batman's trait don't work that way since you recovery before the move hits/can move during the move hits.
 

Generalbit

The blade of osh-tekk is stale.
We'll just have to disagree on that point, since neither of us can really prove it one away or the other. I appreciate your position, though.
I get what ur thinking, I really truly do. If scarecrow or darkseid had moves that they have in abilities, they would be so much better! Well darkseid's already good but u get the point. But for some character's like swamp thing or wonder woman, it really feels like they aren't complete characters without some of their ability moves. BUT the key thing to remember here is, if abilities just weren't a thing, and instead of the animations and properties being recycled for the game in the form of ability moves, would u notice a character should have that? OR if abilities weren't a thing would X character have Y move in their base moveset? Cuz I believe that's what you think and I have to disagree with that
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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It was something he made up -- apparently no one ever said this to him.

Should read "if it's true".
Dude, please stop saying I made it up. I didn't. It's right there on the forums. Multiple people have cited it. Anyone can go read all of the posts right now. I really don't want to get this thread off-topic again, but after insulting me and accusing me of spreading misinformation, how can you justify saying I made that up?

Just admit it was a misunderstanding, that you meant something else, or anything, but I can't sit here and let you tell people I made something up when I didn't. You used your forum privileges to threaten me for posting an opinion you disagreed with. You're making it looks worse than it already does. Please stop lying about it so we can move on. I honestly feel like you owe me and the rest of TYM an apology, but I'm not going to push it.

I'm willing to let it die if you are. We are all friends here, even when we piss each other off. Let's get back to the topic at hand.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
But that Input Error isn't on the player, it's on how the game reads inputs. Of course it happened in MKX, it's present in all NRS games, but it appears they widened the input window during MKX, but it mostly went unnoticed because it less often rears it's head in a block-button game. Translating it to a back-to-block game makes the issues far more apparent.
Again, you basically claim this thing to be a bug while you give even more reasons on why this might be in the game from the get go, like claiming that the same window from MKX, a block button based game, in back-to-block game. I'm not saying this thing can't be annoying at times, but to expect NRS and WB to change it just because it's not super convenient to and some other players, let alone calling it a "bug", is wrong. Again, unless they would come and say it was a bug or was unintentional, there is no way we can claim such things, especially that it most likely isn't intentional like other players say.

I'm done with this topic.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Both characters can move while their trait is out. There's no surefire way of saying what they are on block besides the raw blockstun, and the Bats have literally no blockstun, that's why you can do jump over and get a mixup with just bats.


for something to be "plus on block" you have to be in recovery state of the move, ya know? Like input a move, you can move x frames faster than opponent. Brainiac and Batman's trait don't work that way since you recovery before the move hits/can move during the move hits.
Right, and bats have zero recovery.

(I know you're aware of the following, but I'm clarifying for other readers)

The in-game frame-data says +7. If you set the AI to block and jump, you can test the frame data by hitting them with a move and trying to jump, yourself. With most moves, you're in some amount of recovery before you can jump, but not so with bats; hell, you can even release them while you're jumping.

So you're right that "plus" might not have been the correct word to use, but they essentially serve the same purpose as a plus-frame move by covering his negative frames and making him safe. That's all I meant.
 

JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
Again, you basically claim this thing to be a bug while you give even more reasons on why this might be in the game from the get go, like claiming that the same window from MKX, a block button based game, in back-to-block game. I'm not saying this thing can't be annoying at times, but to expect NRS and WB to change it just because it's not super convenient to and some other players, let alone calling it a "bug", is wrong. Again, unless they would come and say it was a bug or was unintentional, there is no way we can claim such things, especially that it most likely isn't intentional like other players say.

I'm done with this topic.
You can say 'We can't know for sure' and things of that nature, but it boils down to something you haven't refuted. You've acknowledged it happens, and seem to have accepted it as 'within-the-margin-of-error' of what you personally are willing to deal with, but it is unacceptable that if I am down-block and try to punish with F22, and DF2 comes out. I refuse to believe they meant for a wider buffer window to allow such errors. I'll leave it there.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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I get what ur thinking, I really truly do. If scarecrow or darkseid had moves that they have in abilities, they would be so much better! Well darkseid's already good but u get the point. But for some character's like swamp thing or wonder woman, it really feels like they aren't complete characters without some of their ability moves. BUT the key thing to remember here is, if abilities just weren't a thing, and instead of the animations and properties being recycled for the game in the form of ability moves, would u notice a character should have that? OR if abilities weren't a thing would X character have Y move in their base moveset? Cuz I believe that's what you think and I have to disagree with that
I believe some characters were purposefully left "incomplete" in order to accommodate the gear-based abilities. Who's to say what NRS might have done, but I don't believe they would have released some of the characters in their current states. That's just my personal belief, though.
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
The biggest problem with this game is not having 2 player matches one with gear and one without gear. seriously NRS give us legit competitive mode player match please wtf were you thinking gives us a dawm competitive mode player match jesus ill keep repeating myself one last time give us a dawm player match with competitive on FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I mean, no offense, but how Darkseid can't punish anything properly at all whatsoever because of this alone? This sounds too much of an exaggeration to me.

Anything below -17f gets punished by mediocre dmg at best by Darkseid, simply because if you try and punish something with f23, you ll get df2 and s2 does not have enough range and it also does not lead to big dmg. Above -17f his dmg is really good, cause he can punish with the OH starter (b1).

Bottom line, the input bug, or whatever you guys wanna call it, is preventing characters like Darkseid, who already have shitty normals to punish stuff, while other characters punish them with a shitload of dmg.
 
Idk, Karaoke doesn't really come across as someone just crying for the sake of crying or having an agenda here. If that was the case what agenda would it be? Wanting the game to be better?

I don't necessarily agree with everything brought up in the OP, but I thought he rationalized them better then a lot of the people arguing against them. As it seems most of them are just attacks based on statements he made in previous threads.

Maybe he's out of line for calling the game "a piece of shit." I don't think that's true at all, but is it really ban worthy? I think the game is fine right now, so much so that I've been playing it over Tekken 7 as of late (part of that is because I'm still struggling to find a character, whereas I already know who I'm going to play over there), but I can see its flaws. I'm still enjoying the game regardless, but I'd rather see them addressed or acknowledged in some way then just simply shrugged off.
 
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