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Injustice 2 is a Problematic Game

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EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
I agree with the input and competitive mode issues... Those should really be looked into, the input bug is something that has to be changed ASAP IMO, the default competitive mode would be amazing but it's not that BIG of an issue, I still keep my fingers crossed for this change.

The balance is not that bad honestly, tiers are in every figting game... Specially in one with so much character diversity that has zoners that are just as good as some rushdown and mid range characters. For this game to be on it's vanilla version still, it has such a good balance I would say.

I don't get how people come up with those 8-2's when we're not even a month in and how are you gonna know every single character? MUs get determined at least 6 months after the game drops and some keep changing even after, not to mention we will be getting patches in the future.
A 2-8 MU is a huge statement so I would say there are not certainly any 2-8 MUs at all... At least as of now.
 
Why are you worried about win/loss in a non competitive setting? It doesn't make you any better or worse as a player and means absolutely nothing. It's a number..... nothing more and nothing less.
I'm honestly not worried about my win/loss ratio mate as I'm terrible at fighting games anyway. I just think it's ridiculous that I would have to go all the way through to character select to then have to quit out of the match because of this.
 
I'm curious as to all these 7-3 and 8-2 are. Do you even know how those look? Sinestro Aquaman in injustice 1 was 7-3. He punished everything sinestro did unless he was full screen and negated every shackle set up he had including his vortex... but it was still 7-3. Because if you outplayed your opponent really hard you can win.
 
I'm honestly not worried about my win/loss ratio mate as I'm terrible at fighting games anyway. I just think it's ridiculous that I would have to go all the way through to character select to then have to quit out of the match because of this.
On being ridiculous we both agree and the easiest solution is to include queue settings that allow queuing with or without gear independently.
 

Generalbit

The blade of osh-tekk is stale.
Disclaimer: I'm not reading another essay.
However I did skim the posts and it seems to me the biggest problems are that gear isn't off by default and the input buffer window. Which both seem like easy fixes to me. Maybe they will make competitive default after the casuals have left in a few months?
But ur whole thing about ability moves taking away from a character's base moveset is wrong IMHO.
If NRS deemed it necessary for a character to be balanced without these moves, then it shouldn't even be a consideration that they would have put these moves in if abilities weren't a thing. In fighting games the designers of characters probably make hundreds of moves for each character but in the end of the day its up to Lord Paulo and his team to decide what needs to stay. I have no doubt in MKX they had extra moves that didn't make the cut. Abilities are just a way for people to see some of the designers hard work that didn't make it. Or a way for a casual to put a projectile on the flash who wants to zone as that character.

Also- I remember ur cheetah thread and ur 10-0 claim. I'm not sure u comprehend how hopeless a 10-0,9-1, or even 8-2 actually is. If ur character can freely move for over 50% of the match, it's not that bad.

Finally, gear is cool and fun. I don't think gear should have stats attached to it, but then again I don't think stats should even be in the game. I still question the decision to give characters different health than one another but end up having combos do essentially the same damage across the board. Was it just to make me do math?


EDIT:
I honestly wouldn't even mind abilities in competitive as long as they were all unlocked for everyone and everyone could lab against them. It would be cool and I can't even imagine all the cool tech and new things people would find. And how many characters would bounce around the tier lists due to all their different synergies and new moves. Cheetah would probably beat batman if abilities were allowed. #aliencrawl
But I genuinely believe that this would be too much for Paulo to handle.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I would love a separate matchmaking without gear abilities or stat boosts. I fucking *hate* the stats being tied to gear. I don't mind abilities, but having a 2.5k ability and 2.3k power Deadshot makes games just a real clusterfuck.

BUT THE COSMETICS ROCK NRS. I'M NOT KNOCKING THE AESTETHICS!
For the stat boosts to be disabled you only need to press 1 at the arena select, and then L1. This is where the competition mode is.
 

SoundsLikePAUSE

Neptune's Beard!!!
I knew you were going to get blown up for pointing out truths (..imagine that?), but I have to say I agree with what you're saying.

With regards to the gear system, I think this is the way gaming has been going for a while now, NRS I guess are the first to try pay to win within the FGC? I suppose they did it with MKX to, by releasing broken characters for DLC.

We've just gotta hope that one day NRS add modes for the players who want to play a fair game (other than ranked) with each other at some point. It actually annoyed me that they didn't add a ft3 or ft5 option within the game and just basically copied and pasted the game modes from previous titles.

Anyway, you never know they might just listen to us and improve the game at some point.
How is this game pay to win? If anything, it's pay to look cool and that's about it.
 

Daemantalo

Not Good Enough
For the stat boosts to be disabled you only need to press 1 at the arena select, and then L1. This is where the competition mode is.
Okay. I'm getting very tilted about answering these types of comments. Competitive mode isn't very much used in player matchmaking because a majority of players don't even know it's fucking there. Karaoke nailed it in his post about it being somewhat obscure and inconvenient. I want a separate queue. NRS doesn't have to give it to me, but it's a wish. ;)
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
The thing that realllllybugs me is that nrs was able to balance essentially 90 characters with the variation system in mkx but they just went completely ass backwards with this game and couldn't balance a few extra abilities/specials for competitive mode. It feels like I'm only play half of what what intentioned...


Huuuuuuuuge step backwards imo
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I guess it's this time of year again.

This completely ruins any non-Ranked online game modes for those of us who want to play with baseline characters.
So competitive mode. I agree that it's an issue because of how ranked pretty much stays the only online option if you want to play competitive (others turning on competitive can be unreliable).

You have to turn on a mode that has the effect of turning off gear. It's purposefully ambiguous.
I think you're stretching here. Competitive mode has been talked about for a pretty long time by NRS and turning something on to turn something off isn't as ambiguous as you're making it.

They want you to spend 2,000 Source Crystals to transform a single piece of gear. They want those of us who paid $100 to still have to spend money on premium skins.
Dependig on how much you play, you can get enough crystals to buy around 2-3 of the premium skins. These skins are all voiced so we're already getting more value than we would in Injustice 1 and MKX, but the fact that there is an option to get these skins for free is already good. In previous games we would have needed to buy a skin pack to get these skins at all, now we have source crystals which can get you a quality skin or two for free.

And no being able to buy source crystals does not discredit the fact that in Injustice 2 we can get skins for free whereas in previous games we could not.

Not only is gear a cash grab, but moves that could have been included in characters' base sets were set aside as gear-only.
Gear is not a cash grab because gear cannot be bought.

Abilities are meant for casual play and should not be considered moves that should have existed with characters in the first place, especially because a lot of them are straight upgrades. Should Flash have had his meterless tornado launcher or his projectile in the first place? Should Darkseid have had a backwards teleport in the first place? There are abilities that do and don't strengthen your argument, but to me it was clear from the beginning that they were meant for casual play and should not be taken into account when it comes to competitive balancing.

Fuck you Ed Boon. Fuck your eyebrows too.
You can't talk about having a civil discussion if you're not having a civil discussion, hyperbole included.

Do I even need to mention the input bug?
Universally agreed upon. This needs fixing ASAP and it's slightly worrisome that as far as I know we haven't had a developer talk about this issue (if they have talked about it please send me a link).

However, at least in that game, the big-body characters had some tools in some matchups. In this game we have characters like Captain Cold, who has a 3-hit all-high string. What? We have Brainiac, with a trait that goes away on hit or on block.
You're using two very specific examples here. Maybe if Captain Cold has a string with 3 highs, you shouldn't use it haphazardly in the neutral? Of course if it's his best string outside of the fact that it's 3 highs then we have a problem.

Batman shouldn't have the best zoning and the best rushdown.
Batman has good zoning but not the best zoning. To be frank it's hard to talk anout this when in the past you made a thread where you called Batman-Cheetah a 10-0 matchup while discrediting people who provided counterexamples for most of that thread's life cycle.

Any tournament players you see doing well with Cheetah, Robin, Joker, or anyone else are simply amazing players; it's the players doing well despite their characters' flaws.
This is a case of you being too convinced that the characters suck that they could not possibly have something to do with a player's success.

- The game is a month old, matchup unfamiliarity is a big factor still.
- Characters always have something to abuse, a character making top 8 at least says that a character doesn't need this specific player to be viable.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
As people have said, the input "bug" could be something intentional, yet people just don't wanna except it. I remember that in MKX, people wanted Reptile to have his Acid Puddle to work exactly like Erron Black's Caltrops, and then @G4S J360 explained that the Puddle works just fine, it's just works differently, and while it doesn't work the way some people want too, it still works as it should be. This could be the same case here, although a lot more universal. Maybe some people want it to work a certain way and that's why they call it a "bug", yet it still works as it should be. And as @KingHippo said, even if NRS do come and say it was intentional, which means it's not a bug but an actual legit part of the gameplay, people are more likely just gonna call it "stupid".

Also for the whole Gear thing, last time I've checked, that's the whole point of IJ2, the Gear system. And whatever you like it or not, the amount of competitive players is extremely small in comparison the amount of casual players. So even if some of them don't know how to turn the competitive mode on, they are not gonna do it even if they do know because they just wanna have fun with the game. You can't count your opponent to turn that mode on, because it's the whole point of the whole game. And it's YOUR JOB to find players that you know would wanna practice with you and go to a PRIVATE MATCH with them and with the competitive mode turned on, it's not really that hard. I already got some friends on PSN that do understand it, now it's your turn.

And as for the Balance...... do I really need to explain that? It's still too fucking early to claim that the game is unbalanced. And now NRS are actually gonna wait with the balance patches BECAUSE it's too early. I support NRS' patch system way more then what Capcom used to be back in the day, but some people seem to just relay too much on the patches to make the game easier for them to play. That's not how it is suppose to work.

I guess it was only a matter of time before people would start to complain about the game not going their way 100%. Sometimes I feel that a lot of fighting game players (not just for NRS games) who complain about the fighting games are just casuals, but just don't wanna admit it.

I honestly feel this whole 'input bug' thing was actually something intended by NRS. I dont see how can they miss this glaring issue.

What bothers me the most about the game is the character diversity. The meta now is straight up Black Adam, Aquaman, Superman, and Batman. This shit is straight up Inj1 all over again and history is repeating itself. Did the folks at NRS just port these guys over changed a bit of frame data and call it a day? Right now its so stale to watch because it feels like 2013 again. Sure it might be "too early" but are we really going to see these characters balance out with the rest of the cast through time? I however do not think so.
You do realize that these characters are almost identical to their IJ1 counterparts while IJ2 has a lot of new characters that are yet to be fully checked, right? From what it looks like, "I do not think so".
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
The thing that realllllybugs me is that nrs was able to balance essentially 90 characters with the variation system in mk
The MKX balancing and the variation system were probably the most criticized parts of the game. Don't tell me you thought the game was as balanced as you make it out to be when you yourself, a Reptile main, have said that launch Reptile was bad and became steadily better as time went on. At least give Injustice 2 the same amount of time because we're still at launch balancing.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
The MKX balancing and the variation system were probably the most criticized parts of the game. Don't tell me you thought the game was as balanced as you make it out to be when you yourself, a Reptile main, have said that launch Reptile was bad and became steadily better as time went on. At least give Injustice 2 the same amount of time because we're still at launch balancing.
Patches won't change the fact that abilities are locked away for casuals
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Patches won't change the fact that abilities are locked away for casuals...
...that don't know how to use them in combos and such. Those abilities are for the competitive mode. Not for the casuals.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Its not that the input its a bug, its just bad design but they sure need to be refined.

They've been this way since MKX and its bad, holding down back or forward shouldn't store inputs which is one of the reasons we have so much problems.

If NRS is so iffy about giving more advanced players a control scheme with a more refined input in general, just give us as an option like they did with release check and stuff, so who ever scrubs feels like its too hard to play can leave as it is, but everyone who plays competitively could have the option to turn it off in the control options
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
The MKX balancing and the variation system were probably the most criticized parts of the game. Don't tell me you thought the game was as balanced as you make it out to be when you yourself, a Reptile main, have said that launch Reptile was bad and became steadily better as time went on. At least give Injustice 2 the same amount of time because we're still at launch balancing.
@DDutchguy Yes Reptile was indeed a good character from the start, people just wanted to compain, like @dribirut just did, but the Variation system is one of the best things in MKX and they still are. There are a few of them that just you can't just pick for high level player, but the system as whole works just fine.

However, @dribirut, the whole point of the Gear only moves is that they're not meant for competitive play, just like @DDutchguy said. You need to give the game more time, just you should've game MKX more time and then you would've realize that Reptile was good even at the very beginning.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Every time I read 'karaokelove' all I see is:



It's like the Justin Timberlake "Cry Me a River: Remix"

No game is perfect -- but calling the game a 'piece of shit' simply because it's not flawlessly aligning with your wishes is not only silly, but egregiously immature. Here we have a developer that cares enough to revamp their entire netcode mid-game; and you can only see fit to bash the hard-working staff because you don't like your character's Week 3 matchup chart.

Additionally, some of you guys have completely forgotten the state that Injustice 1 originally launched in. People saying things like "Injustice 1 was more polished at launch" are displaying a level of ignorance that almost borders on willful misinformation.

The sense of entitlement displayed here is beyond belief -- and at the end of the day, being destructive rather than constructive accomplishes nothing.

So to paraphrase the words of the smash hit single, don't be surprised when the bridges are burned, and now it's your turn, to cry..

 
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