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Combo List - Shinnok Impostor Shinnok Mimicry combo/vortex options Megathread. Will be updated regularly.

NRS community blocks everything on reaction)))) only Capcom can't block 20 frame overheads, that is hilarious !!!!
Seriously though 18 frames is fine, delayed lows or doing something like ducking switching stances right before the low destroys fuzzy guarding. In mk9 players like insuperable and Dink were doing it with Quan Chi' s nonexistent mix up of a low/ million frames start up overhead by delaying lows!
 

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
What? That isn't agreed on at all. Don't speak for everyone when you're not even representing the majority. In a vortex situation KFs 50/50 is reactable. Barely mind you but still reactable when you're in a vortex situation.
My apologies for being unclear. I merely meant that slow minded imbeciles like myself, Daigo, and Tokido cannot consistently react to 18 frame overheads.

I did not mean to suggest deities such as yourself cannot. Of course you do it 10/10 times in pressure situations.

And I'm sure all of Kung Jin's opponents are just being merciful and letting the overhead hit them in every MKX tournament so far.

Forgive me.

In all seriousness: I said *consistently* reactable. I agree you can barely do it sometimes.
 
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Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
My apologies for being unclear. I merely meant that slow minded imbeciles like myself, Daigo, and Tokido cannot consistently react to 18 frame overheads.

I did not mean to suggest deities such as yourself cannot. Of course you do it 10/10 times in pressure situations.

And I'm sure all of Kung Jin's opponents are just being merciful and letting the overhead hit them in every MKX tournament so far.

Forgive me.

In all seriousness: I said *consistently* reactable. I agree you can barely do it sometimes.
No need to be cunt, not my fault you haven't spoken to people like Sonicfox who also agree with the idea that you can react to it. Go tell him it's impossible. Daigo and Tokido don't play this game so bringing them up is irrelevant.

Anyway I said it's reactable in a vortex situation, which people always seem to ignore when I make the point because it suits their argument/opinion. I'm not saying if Killer Frost dashes up and F3s you're going to block it every time but in the situation after you've been frozen and have to hold the mixup it's reactable.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
sonic fox says he can block b3 on reaction?

@SonicFox5000
That's not what I said at all, jesus christ. Just stop with it, the point has clearly been overdiscussed to the point where you're not even reading what I'm saying properly so let's just move on or go back to looking at Shinnok vortex options/combos since that's actually what this thread is about.
 

FlyMike

-----
Lol why are people failing to comprehend the difference between reactions during vigorous ground game and a "frozen" state such as a vortex?

It's still highly subjective, but when a situation confines outcomes and options are narrowed, it's a largely subconscious awareness that naturally affects focus ajd heightens reactions. But for sake of argument, I guess just continue to call them good reads. Reads with consistently high success rates lol.
 
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Shamwow0w0w

Steam / Twitch: Apsasu
I truly believe Shinnok is top tier. Enhanced Hell Sparks on block is just too strong of a tool. He controls the screen from all distances. You can't zone him because he can teleport. From mid screen he's in complete control with Hell Sparks/F22/D2, and with his enhanced Hell Sparks on block he is a frame trap monster up close. He builds high amounts of meter, and deals high amounts of chip, negates wake ups with Mimicry, gets a 50/50 chance for a 16% grab after Mimicry, his D2 is a great anti air, etc.

Thoughts? What characters/variations have better tools than Imposter Shinnok? Maybe I'm fanboying really hard or maybe he's as great as I think he is. :)
 

Euph0nic

Purple Glowy Stuff
i'm having trouble with noob jins and good raidens and sonyas. I'm fairly sure he can fuck up the rest of the cast. I'm on pc so i dont even have a fuckin overhead yet. Just IATP's, chip out safely, EX Shoulder gets beat 1% of the time and stuffs a shitload of armored wakeups across the cast. 4 grabs per match or i do 25 pushups. Land mimicry, 312,x-ray is 58% if theyve just fuckin given up on being chipped out and let go of the controller. (keep a sick vortex and this happens alot).
I truly believe Shinnok is top tier.
+1
 

Helter Skelter

CHIPPINGxTRAPPINGxZONING
Nah, I don't think he's top tier at all, but he is a really decent character.

Firstly, when you talk about how good/bad a character is you really need to compare them to the rest of the viable cast.

Does he pressure and/or chip better that Dash/Fireball Cancel characters like Scorpion, D'Vorah, etc.

Does he have mixup/vortex potential similar to Raiden or Erron?

Does he have High/Low hard-to-blockables like Quan Chi or Cassie?

Does he have high meterless damage potential like Kung Lao or Mileena?

Safe wakeup like Goro?

Some of the characters I mentioned aren't even top tier and he has way less than that.

---

However, I do think he's a decent character, because he actually controls space. Not in a broken projectile spam based way either.

I was naive and biased before but after his MB on Block 'fix' (not buff), I started to realise that the character is actually quite well thought out.

You're essentially managing the space between himself and where his Hell Sparks end. He's a proper zoner. EVERY variation that he has allows you to harm players that want to be outside of that range. This can be done by reacting with teleports, ground pounds or flicks/fireballs. So he kinda operates like Sinestro/Shang.

Choosing variations actually changed people's perception of the character itself because I reckon he's meant to played quite similarly in all variation. We all wanna run mixups all day, zone all days or counter poke all day but he's probably meant to be more patient than that.

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I do think he needs some changes, though.

-Give Amulet Curse armor but make it -5.

Hell Sparks can now be meter burned on block, so Amulet Curse is actually not that useful because Hell Sparks are hit-confirmable, delay-able, have 10 extra frames of advantage and leads into combos.

Just make it a safe reversal move that costs bar, considering it does the same damage as the regular version (9%).

-Summoned Fiend/Summoned Slam to have much better tracking. So it's more reliable to combo with and catch people running. This was suggested by REO here:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/my-predictions-for-the-next-balance-patch-post-yours.52410/

-Hell Blast to have reverse trajectory.
This is currently the move that has the most wasted potential. Yes, it does more damage and is fast but you still need to Meter Burn to make it safe or combo from it.

I hope NRS will consider making the move start where the regular Hell Sparks end and travel back towards you. This should be accompanied by the frame data and damage being adjusted to match the regular version.

Why is this significant? Regardless of Shinnok's full screen options within his variations.

He best attribute is managing the space that Hell Sparks covers and working around it. If he could pay a bar to drag you back into that 'zone' (zoning character, see?) then it's up to you to to spend further bars to make those situation safe or advantageous.

Also, we all know that Shinnok's damage is currently an issue. Understandably, Mimicry's damage boost is NRS reasoning. Fair Enough. Well, if Shinnok players want to choose the lower damage option they can have weak unbreakable projectile combos.

Anyway, that was my thoughts on the character and 3 changes that I have spent a long time pondering on.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Shinnok is NOT top tier. Impostor itself might not even be a top 10 variation in the game although it is a hell of a lot better since the patch. Not when other characters have better mixups, better meterless damage, more safe or even plus frames, etc.

Yes he has a teleport but it's 27 frames, easy to avoid or counter on reaction.

Yes his Hell Sparks are +24 on block but he doesn't exactly have the best pressure in the game and he needs meter for combos unless he lands his overhead.

Speaking of which his overhead is 18 frames and -11 while his low is 7 frames and you need to commit to the Hell Sparks which, if you don't have meter, will cost you dearly. His mixup is fuzzy guardable and to be honest I'd eat one 16% throw that leaves him at an arguably unfavourable (for Shinnok) distance from you and -1 than 40% back into vortex where he's +100 on hit. But maybe that's just me.

Necromancer is still shit (sad face) since the tracking on some of his moves is abhorrent.

Bone Shaper is decent but you STILL need meter to get good damage off of it and his standing reset doesn't even leave him plus enough on hit to guarantee a followup. You actually have to hold the opponents followup -_-

I mean he jumped from shit to at least mid tier but he's not top tier.
 
Shinnok is a meter whore with no reliable way of building meter.

He needs meter too keep himself safe, to stay at advantage for pressure,
for combos that do sub par damage. While other characters do all of that without meter
so they can have meter to wakeup and breaker.

Shinnok just blows his load with EX hellsparks and hes screwed.
 

Shamwow0w0w

Steam / Twitch: Apsasu
Firstly, when you talk about how good/bad a character is you really need to compare them to the rest of the viable cast.

Does he pressure and/or chip better that Dash/Fireball Cancel characters like Scorpion, D'Vorah, etc.

Does he have mixup/vortex potential similar to Raiden or Erron?

Does he have High/Low hard-to-blockables like Quan Chi or Cassie?

Does he have high meterless damage potential like Kung Lao or Mileena?

Safe wakeup like Goro?
Firstly, you didn't compare Shinnoks ability to control the screen to any characters which was the main point of my post.

Does Scorpion have mixup potential like Raiden or Erron? No.
Does Scorpion have high/low hard-to-blockables like Quan or Cassie? No.
Does Scorpion have high meterless damage like Kung Lao or Mileena? Maybe kinda yes lol
Does Scorpion have safe wakeup like Goro? Not at all.
Point is that just because Scorpion excels at one thing doesn't mean he excels at everything which in turn does not make him a "decent character". His strengths in one/two areas are enough to make Scorpion considered high tier. Shinnoks chip damage is unmatched by any character/variation in the game. Shinnoks range on F22 as a footsie/whiff punisher is also unmatched. Shinnok gets low damage for a bar but gets anywhere from 5-16% chip damage meterless after each Mimicry on hit (which builds back a minimum of 1/3 of a bar) depending on who you are fighting.

Imposter Shinnoks main pros are:
Space control (F2, teleport, Hell Sparks, D2)
Extremely high chip damage when compared to each and every variation in the game.
Standing reset that grant a damage boost.

I'll test out the numbers soon but after Mimicry, you can loop F22xxHell Sparks (MB 2nd hit) 4 times until you are out of meter, super easy to hit confirm, and leads to disgusting chip damage.
 

Helter Skelter

CHIPPINGxTRAPPINGxZONING
So you're telling me that Shinnok does more chip than Scorpion, who can chips you for 20% meterless in Hellfire, while having a safe mixup? Or better than any of Johnny's variation which also do high chip meterless. Or D'Vorah who has DOT and has a move that does 13% chip for a bar while build 3/4ths of a bar back?

I don't know which match against 'good' tournament players you have 3 bars to spend and why you wouldn't be spending it on Breakers, combos or punishment.

If you think he's top tier then I won't argue with you, but I don't see it or believe it myself. I do think he's a good character but not as good as the top tier we currently have or even some mid tiers. We should just agree to disagree.

I do think Shinnok has good space control, though.
 
Don't forget Sorcerer Quan Chi who with final hex up (which is easily set up during the trance) does up to 30+% of chip for one bar (depending on the string you use before the ex rune).
 

Shamwow0w0w

Steam / Twitch: Apsasu
So you're telling me that Shinnok does more chip than Scorpion, who can chips you for 20% meterless in Hellfire, while having a safe mixup? Or better than any of Johnny's variation which also do high chip meterless. Or D'Vorah who has DOT and has a move that does 13% chip for a bar while build 3/4ths of a bar back?

I don't know which match against 'good' tournament players you have 3 bars to spend and why you wouldn't be spending it on Breakers, combos or punishment.

If you think he's top tier then I won't argue with you, but I don't see it or believe it myself. I do think he's a good character but not as good as the top tier we currently have or even some mid tiers. We should just agree to disagree.

I do think Shinnok has good space control, though.
If you're talking about the 3 hit string that he fireball cancels and repeats 3 times for his chip damage, I'm almost positive it's not 20%. Assuming each hit does 1.5% chip damage, 1.5 x 9 = 13.5. Assuming after the 3rd time he ends it with a special move that does 2% on block he'd be at 15.5%. Seems pretty similar to Imposter Shinnok, but I'm almost certain it does less than that. I'll test these numbers out tomorrow after work. I'm not a Scorpion main so I'd love it if you could post exact numbers. I'd love to admit I'm wrong if I am.

I have a very strong scene here in AZ, plenty of high level tournament players to test my games against. Theirs a reason why Detroitballn dropped Grandmaster Sub for Imposter Shinnok after the latest patch went live. building 3 bars is not difficult with Shinnok considering breakers are pretty risky in this game since they deplete your stamina. And as mentioned before, Shinnok doesn't have the best wake up options. Using meter for a wake up is very situational.

The threat of delaying the meter burn for hell sparks on block is enough to keep you safe most of the time, but that is more of a guessing game.
 
If you're talking about the 3 hit string that he fireball cancels and repeats 3 times for his chip damage, I'm almost positive it's not 20%. Assuming each hit does 1.5% chip damage, 1.5 x 9 = 13.5. Assuming after the 3rd time he ends it with a special move that does 2% on block he'd be at 15.5%. Seems pretty similar to Imposter Shinnok, but I'm almost certain it does less than that. I'll test these numbers out tomorrow after work. I'm not a Scorpion main so I'd love it if you could post exact numbers. I'd love to admit I'm wrong if I am.

I have a very strong scene here in AZ, plenty of high level tournament players to test my games against. Theirs a reason why Detroitballn dropped Grandmaster Sub for Imposter Shinnok after the latest patch went live. building 3 bars is not difficult with Shinnok considering breakers are pretty risky in this game since they deplete your stamina. And as mentioned before, Shinnok doesn't have the best wake up options. Using meter for a wake up is very situational.

The threat of delaying the meter burn for hell sparks on block is enough to keep you safe most of the time, but that is more of a guessing game.
Is there a footage of Detroit playing impostor?! I would love to watch him go)))
And yeah Sorcerer Quan does more chip with his final hex, but hey, that is what that thing was meant for. And it is mostly in the corner where it can kill, midscreen you mostly get one repetition of string into ex rune into string, normal rune, before opponent is moved outside the hex:/
 

Shamwow0w0w

Steam / Twitch: Apsasu
And yeah Sorcerer Quan does more chip with his final hex, but hey, that is what that thing was meant for. And it is mostly in the corner where it can kill, midscreen you mostly get one repetition of string into ex rune into string, normal rune, before opponent is moved outside the hex:/
Ah, forgot about Sorcerer Quan. Thanks for the reminder. :)
 

SpiceWeasel

Nothing personal mate!
Shinnok gets low damage for a bar but gets anywhere from 5-16% chip damage meterless after each Mimicry on hit (which builds back a minimum of 1/3 of a bar) depending on who you are fighting.
hi, with what string do you get this chip dmg after mimicry?