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Match-up Discussion "I think you underestimate me!" Joker Match-up Discussion Thread

Amplified$hotz

Leggo Sinestro!
Use gunshot to interrupt her shit and trade. If you trade well you can dash. Be ready to punish teleports always and 90% of the time end with crowbar and OTG. Other 10% do a setup.
What about get trait? The projectiles are pretty fast. And she has that lightning cage crap
 

Amplified$hotz

Leggo Sinestro!
Shoot the bitch out of it, don't jump.
She has that projectile that goes overhead or into the air. I try to jump over the overhead one because they do quite a bit of block stun. So when i try to dash forward i get hit the puppet matter move and put into a vortex.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Honestly I wouldn't argue a HARD 6-4 but I put 7-3 Zatanna because her zoning mixed with her teleports are OP in this MU. She also has dirty as fuck resets and I know that her dive kick is negative as hell but the start up is stupid fast and has great priority. I agree with Qwark to interrupt and/or look for that restand stun shit she has to get free dash ins. Inching in this MU is definitely important because at anytime she can switch from rings to the restand or teleport behind you if she sees the revolver and you're fucked. On wakeup shes better then shazam so only corner shit works on her. Her D2 is good but hella unsafe so I would bait that out by doing neutral jumps. Also a strong way to check her zoning is MB f/b3 cancel through a ring and immediately pull out revolver. She has to respect this option because her ring startup isnt fast enough to react to it. That does cost meter though. I'm sure I left stuff out but more tech and BS will come out along the way
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Lets be honest though, 90% of the roster can blast Joker on Knockdown.
Agreed. Flower is a strong wakeup to defend traditional oki and people just not respecting it, but it's insanely easy to avoid and punish by a variety of characters in multiple situations. It's a shame that crowbar's whiff recovery is 10 years long, because that would be a great option to compliment it.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Agreed. Flower is a strong wakeup to defend traditional oki and people just not respecting it, but it's insanely easy to avoid and punish by a variety of characters in multiple situations. It's a shame that crowbar's whiff recovery is 10 years long, because that would be a great option to compliment it.
For a full invincible wakeup, I find acid being stuffed by more and more characters which makes getting knocked down a nightmare. Shazam can scoop you out of acid, 90% of CWs strings and tools stuff or avoid acid completely, Bane smh, DD smh, Frost, NW, I mean the shit goes on forever. I think making crowbar faster would've been nice. Just wishful thinking though.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
For a full invincible wakeup, I find acid being stuffed by more and more characters which makes getting knocked down a nightmare. Shazam can scoop you out of acid, 90% of CWs strings and tools stuff or avoid acid completely, Bane smh, DD smh, Frost, NW, I mean the shit goes on forever. I think making crowbar faster would've been nice. Just wishful thinking though.
It's not fully invincible, has 1-2 frames in which it can be stuffed.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Yeah I've actually been noticing this as well. People always thought it was invincible, but I've traded with it several times lately, and been straight up beat by regular oki from strings a few times. Sucks. I think it's only 1 frame just because of how infrequently I've seen it get stuffed, but still sucks.
 

deg222

Best Zatanna that uses Aquaman
I haven't had that much experience in the MU but I've played against Jokers that know their setups. It really just boils down to Zatanna's zoning being way too good especially with MB rings. They just control Joker and stop him from jumping with his low jump arc. And yeah, her trait doesn't work too well in the MU but if she can trade a shot or absorb 1 gunshot, it's still worth it for her. Absorbing a projectile gives her 1/3 a bar and she wins the trade between a gunshot and a trait shot.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
I haven't had that much experience in the MU but I've played against Jokers that know their setups. It really just boils down to Zatanna's zoning being way too good especially with MB rings. They just control Joker and stop him from jumping with his low jump arc. And yeah, her trait doesn't work too well in the MU but if she can trade a shot or absorb 1 gunshot, it's still worth it for her. Absorbing a projectile gives her 1/3 a bar and she wins the trade between a gunshot and a trait shot.
Get that poor execution character out of here :joker:

Thsnks for replying to this discussion. Any tips on how to help Joker out besides what has been said so far?
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I haven't had that much experience in the MU but I've played against Jokers that know their setups. It really just boils down to Zatanna's zoning being way too good especially with MB rings. They just control Joker and stop him from jumping with his low jump arc. And yeah, her trait doesn't work too well in the MU but if she can trade a shot or absorb 1 gunshot, it's still worth it for her. Absorbing a projectile gives her 1/3 a bar and she wins the trade between a gunshot and a trait shot.
How well does Zatanna's teleport work to escape Joker's oki options during setups? Have you found players that know their setups capable of working around it and still keeping you pinned down/getting resets, or has it pretty much gotten you out for free and allowed you to create space again?
I have a feeling Zatanna is one of those fights where you have to rely on crowbar enders and OTG just to keep her from running away.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
How well does Zatanna's teleport work to escape Joker's oki options during setups? Have you found players that know their setups capable of working around it and still keeping you pinned down/getting resets, or has it pretty much gotten you out for free and allowed you to create space again?
I have a feeling Zatanna is one of those fights where you have to rely on crowbar enders and OTG just to keep her from running away.
It gets her out unless shes in the corner or if you read a teleport behind you last I checked. OTG is nice but can be pushblocked so easily.
 

deg222

Best Zatanna that uses Aquaman
How well does Zatanna's teleport work to escape Joker's oki options during setups? Have you found players that know their setups capable of working around it and still keeping you pinned down/getting resets, or has it pretty much gotten you out for free and allowed you to create space again?
I have a feeling Zatanna is one of those fights where you have to rely on crowbar enders and OTG just to keep her from running away.
Yeah Joker can pin her down with OTGs, but the problem is more about the neutral game and even landing a combo on her. It's so difficult to catch her and then she always has the option to MB teleport behind you and jump out. If she can escape before getting cornered, you have to chase her down again and waste more life getting in while she gets more meter to control you more.

I'd always be down to play the MU online, but Zatanna online is real good lol.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Yeah Joker can pin her down with OTGs, but the problem is more about the neutral game and even landing a combo on her. It's so difficult to catch her and then she always has the option to MB teleport behind you and jump out. If she can escape before getting cornered, you have to chase her down again and waste more life getting in while she gets more meter to control you more.

I'd always be down to play the MU online, but Zatanna online is real good lol.
I don't really play online anymore lol. It screws my timing up for offline too badly :( thanks for the offer though. And thanks for the input. That's pretty much how I figured the matchup was, just wanted to get the opinion of a someone who knows the matchup from the opposite perspective. Thanks duder!
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Next up is Zatanna!
I've fought a few of varying levels of skill...

I still have no idea how the hell this MU plays out. I can't help at all on this one.
I do think it's borderline impossible in lag though.



Is her teleport like Shazam's in that it has crazy invulnerability properties? I was having trouble with that this weekend. Started to switch to crowbar enders and was having more success.
Oh wait I do know this!
It's more like Ares' teleport, but yes it is fully invincible on wakeup.
That said crossing her up during the teleport wakeup messes with the direction she tries to teleport in.