I Sense Your Dread- Scarecrow Match Up Discussion

[AA25Mamba]

I find the most difficult match ups not the hard zoners, but the soft zoners that can just throw sht until you approach and then turn on some ridiculous block pressure.

Batman is a huge issue for me, since he can just Bataan over and over and then once you get in hell just drop his trait then put you in a long string of block pressure and then end it with with either a combo or a Bata rang to continue the camp.

I'm sure everyone is aware once scarecrow gets in his down1+db2 mb pressure is insane when you mix it with tic grabs, I found what wins me matches the most is when I land something like 12+mbf 3 or b221+mbf 3. When you land a meter burn 3 I think it does like 280 by itself and you can easily get a 50%+ of something simple like

12+mbb3 jump 3 f2 dbf3

Against hard zoners like dead shot,firestorm,captain Cold I usually duck and db2 their projectiles to build meter for a mb roll and come out with either a down 2 or a tic throw so I can get in the sweep distance for scarecrow pressure. Down 3 is my best friend, big dmg safe and creates opptunitys for f3's.

Like I said the pseudo zoners are my problem (black adam, aquaman, batman, sometimes superman) but even then it's not a 70:30 match up

I'd rank scarecrow top 10 since one hit easily converts to big dmg

I couldn't agree more with you. The characters like you said are the worst because they will catch you as you're coming in during their zoning and put Crow at his worst range, close range.

Batman and Black Adam are real trouble because they can come at you with jump attacks from mid range as you're closing distance. At that range Crow's D2 is a bit too slow to hit great jump in attacks, and most of his normals are too slow to connect when you're being pressured. My only solution was to push block and get to optimal distance.

I would bet Joker is a tough matchup because of this and his increased speed with trait. I've yet to play a good Joker, but I could see him popping a few laughs while Crow navigates the gunshots and laugh gas cans only to pop off some crazy fast J2s.

 

[M.D.]

Robin, along with almost 99 of the cast, beats f1 and f2 with any normal spam when they think you're coming in.

The 0 priority on those attacks make me cringe each time I get stuffed.

 

[dribirut]

After mb db2, you kan do 22 and the first hit is fast enough to beat out all d1's the second hit katches backdashes... You don't get real damage off of it though, unless the kancel into mb b3 for 2 bars works... Haven't tested it yet. Since he has a kommand grab, I don't think he necessarily needs anything better than this. They need to buff him elsewhere though.

Yea I knew about the 22 but it doesn't lead to absolutely anything. You just wasted a bar to get 4% damage and let him get out of pressure. If it's plus 8 at least you can jail your d1

 

[dribirut]

On paper I think batman is going to be a fucking nightmare

 

[SaltShaker]

Scarecrow bottom 5

I'd rank scarecrow top 10

I don't know what to believe. -.-

 

[SneakyTortoise]

I don't know what to believe. -.-

It's almost like the game is only just out, and trying to make random tier placements is pointless...

 

[JDM]

don't think scarecrow is top 10 material he has to work too hard. but he's definitely not bottom 5

 

[dribirut]

I agree it's too early but he is definitely not looking like top 10 material at the moment. There's a reason top players are avoiding him like AIDS besides who reo. And we all saw how he did against theo...

Toxin said he loves playing him but no chance he can compete against top tier..
But agreed it is too early to say he's bottom 5

 

[dribirut]

I can name more than characters that imo are without a doubt easily better than scarecrow:
Atrocious
Batman
Superman
Aquaman
Poison ivy
Deadshot
Dr fate
Darkseid
Super girl
Green lantern
Green arrow
Harley

 

[dribirut]

Robin, along with almost 99 of the cast, beats f1 and f2 with any normal spam when they think you're coming in.

The 0 priority on those attacks make me cringe each time I get stuffed.

Any character can on reaction stuff f1. I guess the mind game comes with ji2..

 

[masherofbuttons]

Any character can on reaction stuff f1. I guess the mind game comes with ji2..

f1 is 21 frames. Assuming your fastest move is 7 frames, you'd have to react in 14 frames. I don't think you can stuff that on reaction

 

[dribirut]

f1 is 21 frames. Assuming your fastest move is 7 frames, you'd have to react in 14 frames. I don't think you can stuff that on reaction

I meant on whiff like all scarecrow players do..

 

[masherofbuttons]

I meant on whiff like all scarecrow players do..

Oh okay, yeah on whiff it's not that great

 

[dribirut]

Okay I'm 100% mb db2 neeeeeds to be +8.. It used to be plus 11. Only then will the situation actually advantateous to us really.
We could then jail a standing one and or d1.

Also wtf are we the only character without a wake up. I just got harassed and bent over on knock down because of our shit back dash and no wake up.

Literally you have to just bend over and take the 50/50

 

[Sultan]

Okay I'm 100% mb db2 neeeeeds to be +8.. It used to be plus 11. Only then will the situation actually advantateous to us really.
We could then jail a standing one and or d1.

Also wtf are we the only character without a wake up. I just got harassed and bent over on knock down because of our shit back dash and no wake up.

Literally you have to just bend over and take the 50/50

Okay I'm 100% mb db2 neeeeeds to be +8.. It used to be plus 11. Only then will the situation actually advantateous to us really.
We could then jail a standing one and or d1.

Also wtf are we the only character without a wake up. I just got harassed and bent over on knock down because of our shit back dash and no wake up.

Literally you have to just bend over and take the 50/50

I'm fairly confident that delaying mb.db+2 actually affects how plus it is on block. I was messing with it in training mode and it seemed like I could jail 22 if I delayed the meter-burn slightly. You might want to double-check that. If I'm right, there's a timing where you can't reversal in between the first hit and the meterburn, and you end up being plus enough to jail 22. I'll lab it out more tonight after work, but in the meantime you or someone else should double check and confirm this...

 

[dribirut]

I'm fairly confident that delaying mb.db+2 actually affects how plus it is on block. I was messing with it in training mode and it seemed like I could jail 22 if I delayed the meter-burn slightly. You might want to double-check that. If I'm right, there's a timing where you can't reversal in between the first hit and the meterburn, and you end up being plus enough to jail 22. I'll lab it out more tonight after work, but in the meantime you or someone else should double check and confirm this...

No it doesn't I checked that. You can jail 22 even if you don't delay it but then can still back dash or block low

 

[dribirut]

I'm sorry but this character is going to end up being a joke if he doesn't get some help.. I actually don't even think that zoners are what really fuck him up..

His lack of a backdash or any wake up makes him pathetically bad.

Characters like
Cheetah
Flash
Canary
Ww
Bane
Etc who have safe 50/50s literally just have to land one knock down and fuck him him. Doesn't have a single fucking option once he gets knocked down..

 

[AA25Mamba]

I'm sorry but this character is going to end up being a joke if he doesn't get some help.. I actually don't even think that zoners are what really fuck him up..

His lack of a backdash or any wake up makes him pathetically bad.

Characters like
Cheetah
Flash
Canary
Ww
Bane
Etc who have safe 50/50s literally just have to land one knock down and fuck him him. Doesn't have a single fucking option once he gets knocked down..

No wakeup does hurt. Basically leaves your options to block/pushblock to get some space.

That said, I think you're overreacting on calling Crow a joke. It's pretty early to tell, and he has good tools that reward a good user. Range, whiff punishing, adequate pressure are all good. The teleport having a slightly quicker recovery would help against zoners.

Check out BeyondToxin playing Crow. He's got some really good concepts going.

 

[dribirut]

No wakeup does hurt. Basically leaves your options to block/pushblock to get some space.

That said, I think you're overreacting on calling Crow a joke. It's pretty early to tell, and he has good tools that reward a good user. Range, whiff punishing, adequate pressure are all good. The teleport having a slightly quicker recovery would help against zoners.

Check out BeyondToxin playing Crow. He's got some really good concepts going.

I am def a little salty but I'm starting to think he's bottom five again. And I've seen him. Definitely the best I've seen and he seems to struggle in almost every mu I see him play

 

[Red Reaper]

Yea I knew about the 22 but it doesn't lead to absolutely anything. You just wasted a bar to get 4% damage and let him get out of pressure. If it's plus 8 at least you can jail your d1

It's a read.. And it keeps them in check and if they block they're still not too far from you.. I think this is fine. I think the real changes should be elsewhere. Or maybe they kould make 22f3 end in neutral? Or buff the range of his d1 to make it a good footsie tool against the characters with faster mids than you, since Scarecrow has a slow walkspeed. There's so many ways they kan go with him, to make him good without making him ridiculous.

 

[dribirut]

He doesn't really neeeeed any buff at all besides a solid wake up. He needs the wake up though. Right now I think he's definitely bottom 5 without wake up. With make up I can see him making a decent jump to mid maybe upper mid tier

 

[masherofbuttons]

He doesn't really neeeeed any buff at all besides a solid wake up. He needs the wake up though. Right now I think he's definitely bottom 5 without wake up. With make up I can see him making a decent jump to mid maybe upper mid tier

I agree, some lipstick and eye shadow would really help him

 

[Daniel Popick]

Bottom 5? I can name ten of the match ups I know he does well in of the top of my head

Robin
Bane
Swamp thing
Blue beetle
Flash
Cheetah
Catwoman
Grood
Canary
Brainiac

On top of those match ups, people need to respect the Teleport a bit more.

Yeah you use it and it forces you to face a mix-up, but against heavy zoners that's fine since all you need is one gap for a MB3 for big damage or a 6 frame advantage to start your own mix up.

The thing is most people need 1 bar to do anywhere between 20-35% where one bar on SC gives you 50% and even more if you use a MBB3.

So yes, he doesn't have a Displaced raiden Teleport but he has one that closes the gap

Plus you know how many people don't react to the Teleport in time to stop a down1 mb db2?

 

[dribirut]

Bottom 5? I can name ten of the match ups I know he does well in of the top of my head

Robin
Bane
Swamp thing
Blue beetle
Flash
Cheetah
Catwoman
Grood
Canary
Brainiac

On top of those match ups, people need to respect the Teleport a bit more.

Yeah you use it and it forces you to face a mix-up, but against heavy zoners that's fine since all you need is one gap for a MB3 for big damage or a 6 frame advantage to start your own mix up.

The thing is most people need 1 bar to do anywhere between 20-35% where one bar on SC gives you 50% and even more if you use a MBB3.

So yes, he doesn't have a Displaced raiden Teleport but he has one that closes the gap

Plus you know how many people don't react to the Teleport in time to stop a down1 mb db2?

Lol he does not do well vs flash bane or cheetah... Idk who you've played

 

[TRVP6GXD]

What the hell are you talking about lol how the fuck do you make a character that doesn't have a single wakeup?!
Also he has a lot of weaknesses, he gets destroyed by zoners and he's slow as fuck, his teleport is very easy to punish and you can't even ex to recover faster which is stupid, not to mention that it takes forever to build his trait up to Traumatize.

I find building his trait isn't that slow if you use db3 and bf1 in your combos.