There’s always room for growth but I genuinely can’t think of a female character in an important recent movie that is portrayed badly. Maybe I don’t watch enough movies, but to me it seems like things are kinda set. Most good films have well written characters of both genders.
I liked Wonder Woman because she wasn’t some memey strong female character. She was a strong character first, and just like real people, her gender is only part of what makes her who she is. Same goes to Black Panther, he’s a good and solid character first, and the writing for his character isn’t a biproduct of something as trivial as race. I’m hoping Captain Marvel is the same, I just genuinely feel like characters in most genres are getting great representation.
Here is a video, which features a couple of old concept art of a NRS artist. Some of that art got pretty much censored. Too sexy, they said. That was for Injustice 2. And to me it looks like the same is happening to MK now.
And censorship is really my main issue when it comes to this topic. I also had people try to censor my work. It's not a nice feeling, especially when the reasoning behind it are twisted ideologies.
There’s always room for growth but I genuinely can’t think of a female character in an important recent movie that is portrayed badly. Maybe I don’t watch enough movies, but to me it seems like things are kinda set. Most good films have well written characters of both genders.
I liked Wonder Woman because she wasn’t some memey strong female character. She was a strong character first, and just like real people, her gender is only part of what makes her who she is. Same goes to Black Panther, he’s a good and solid character first, and the writing for his character isn’t a biproduct of something as trivial as race. I’m hoping Captain Marvel is the same, I just genuinely feel like characters in most genres are getting great representation.
Here is a video, which features a couple of old concept art of a NRS artist. Some of that art got pretty much censored. Too sexy, they said. That was for Injustice 2. And to me it looks like the same is happening to MK now.
And censorship is really my main issue when it comes to this topic. I also had people try to censor my work. It's not a nice feeling, especially when the reasoning behind it are twisted ideologies.
DC Comics rejected those designs and asked for the more covered-up ones. It's their characters and their product. That isn't censorship, it's an artist (DC Comics) asking a contractor (the character designers) to produce the product they want.
NRS is not beholden to anyone in terms of how they want to present their characters; they are making their own choice. It's not censorship for a company to decide they want to appeal to a broader market and ratchet things back from the excesses of MK9.
DC Comics rejected those designs and asked for the more covered-up ones. It's their characters and their product. That isn't censorship, it's an artist (DC Comics) asking a contractor (the character designers) to produce the product they want.
NRS is not beholden to anyone in terms of how they want to present their characters; they are making their own choice. It's not censorship for a company to decide they want to appeal to a broader market and ratchet things back from the excesses of MK9.
And there is a difference between appeasing to the easily triggered, as it were, and some stuff just being a bit too over the top. I mean you don't need to be flat out naked to look sexy.
Here is a video, which features a couple of old concept art of a NRS artist. Some of that art got pretty much censored. Too sexy, they said. That was for Injustice 2. And to me it looks like the same is happening to MK now.
I'm not really sure that's the same thing as censorship. That's more about making design choices. It's an internal decision, not an external force making them make that decision.
Here is a video, which features a couple of old concept art of a NRS artist. Some of that art got pretty much censored. Too sexy, they said. That was for Injustice 2. And to me it looks like the same is happening to MK now.
And censorship is really my main issue when it comes to this topic. I also had people try to censor my work. It's not a nice feeling, especially when the reasoning behind it are twisted ideologies.
NRS artists work for NRS. That's not censorship, that's art direction and managing your employees/contractors. I'm not sure you understand what censorship means.
Also, lol at the idea behind it being a twisted ideology. Let's make the women wear more practical clothing but still be lithe and sexy! SO TWISTED MY GOD. Skarlet is sexy in MK11. Jade is sexy. Hell, Sonya is a Marisa Tomei-level sexy 50 year old.
And even putting that aside, good god could you imagine the MK9 art style with MK11 graphics. It would be horrendous.
Everyone responded at the same time which makes it look like a mob, but I don't think that was intended.
I'm not sure what point he's making though, or what point you think is good there. There's certainly a shift in the art direction - but that's not a point worth making, its apparent from every character model in MKX and now MK11. His only other point (when you take away the censorship) is that the reason behind the shift in style is "twisting ideologies," which is unproven at best and ridiculous at the worst.
Everyone responded at the same time which makes it look like a mob, but I don't think that was intended.
I'm not sure what point he's making though, or what point you think is good there. There's certainly a shift in the art direction - but that's not a point worth making, its apparent from every character model in MKX and now MK11. His only other point (when you take away the censorship) is that the reason behind the shift in style is "twisting ideologies," which is unproven at best and ridiculous at the worst.
While I didn't agree with everything he said, I did find it interesting that those concepts even EXISTED in I2 after seeing the transition from MK9 to MKX (I don't really think about the Injustice series since it's a DC property and they ultimately have the final say in how their characters look), and also makes me wonder what kinds of concepts are currently being canned in MK11.
If there were artists creating those sorts of concepts for a DC property of all things, I can only imagine what was floated for MKX and MK11. I guess my point is if even the artists at NRS are having a little trouble getting acclimated to the new art direction (not saying all of them), then can anyone really blame the NRS fans who may be confused/frustrated by it?
I have no stake in this, NRS will get my money either way. I'm just saying it's definitely been a jarring transition.
Yeah, but petty people who say they don't care and won't go see the movie brought the 'will you watch this' score to like 27% and now Rotten Tomatoes took away that system entirely. I mean, they can say all they want about Brie Larson's feminist agenda, they're just as dumb imo.
@Krankk I agree with you both, and this is honestly WHY I hate RT, it's all PC, biased bs with them.... that alone proves they're not only biased but support her crazy agenda, I refuse to see that movie because of her shitty attitude and her trying to project herself on everyone. I also read a story few weeks back, that a fan asked her out and she was "offended by a random man asking her out" she deemed it "creepy" there's this chick on YT called Star Wars girl, she broke it down perfectly. Like she's obviously the type that thinks she's better than everyone else and I can't stand people like that. Besides, we all know Captain Marvel won't have shit on WW....I felt WW did it properly, a way to show female heroines and power but Gal wasn't obnoxious about it you know? That and she actually looks like the comic book character(though some of the SJW'S/feminazis felt her outfit was "objectifying women")
BTW here's that vid I was talking about I think you'll both be intrigued, btw Krannk I agree on that point with having your art censored, I am also an artist who paints, sculpts from time to time and I have submitted some art before on sites and been rejected for "not being appropriate" whatever that means, not like I drew or painted porn but MK inspired gore and such. lol.
Also, apparently Marvel is refusing to refund people for this movie..... yet the movie isn't out yet.
Holy moly that's bad. Thread is going off the rails. There's a really measured, well-thought out post in this very thread that goes over exactly what Brie Larson said and why it's not some crazy agenda.
Unless you think inclusiveness is some sort of crazy agenda I guess, which is possible.
I would say majority feel she's nuts or projecting, notice RT had 70%+ people saying they're not interested yet RT removed that? Sounds like silencing people to me, that has agenda written all over it...what happened to freedom of expression? freedom of speech/views? lol But sure, no "Agenda" at all...also want to point out literally a BOAT load of youtubers bringing this up, only a matter of time til they're censored to for speaking the truth.
This I will agree is a huge problem endemic to American culture, stemming from the Puritan ethic that was established early in the history of the country. My parents personally had a very different attitude when I was a kid, thankfully, and never had a problem with media that was sexually-charged but did have a problem with violent media. I think that's a much healthier outlook, personally.
I am all for sexy -- sexy men and sexy women, sexy straight people and gay people and bisexual people and whatever else, and people enjoying sex and enjoying their sexuality. What matters to me is primarily that women in art be treated with respect, because as you point out the arts is a historically chauvinistic space and I do believe that how women are presented in the media impacts how men treat women in real life.
I don't care if female characters are scantily clad. I don't care if they like to have sex. I care that they feel like real people and they aren't just toys for male amusement, you know? I've always loved Mortal Kombat, which is hardly a feminist franchise, since the very first game -- because the female characters are interesting and powerful and have their own motivations. MK9 was a lot of fun as a game, but the porn-y presentation of the female characters -- both in attire and in their behavior -- was a big turnoff for me.
I'm glad NRS has course-corrected and gone back to an aesthetic closer to their classic one, with characters of all genders who are attractive and fit and sexy, but aren't defined by their nature as a sexual fantasy. This version of Sonya Blade might not turn people on as much, but it's a much more interesting take on her character to me than the MK9 iteration where she's a Special Forces operative with her naked boobs hanging out of a tactical vest.
There is only one point I disagree with on principle but that is because I'm in the profession of art and I know much about its history, its sociology, its anthropology - its science.
women in art be treated with respect, because as you point out the arts is a historically chauvinistic space
People everywhere be treated with respect, where no exception is to be made for any specific attribute that constitutes an -ism that will aim to discriminate.
That is unless the point of a medium is to tear their liver out or to see their naked boobs, because pornography and horror will not treat the imaginary subjects with respect and expecting them to is fairly counter-intuitive. Note that I used the word subject.
Furthermore, I did not say art itself was chauvinistic, I said the workspaces and workforce-market was, in many countries still, deeply rooted in the "women raise kids and cook dinner" attitude. Feeding into it there are still women who prefer to live such a life and men who prefer to have such a woman by their side. Chauvinism in itself is not wrong, but it is wrong in the context of forcing it unto people who want none of it.
This is so true about horror as pornography, about art as religion, about food as information.
This is why I do agree that depicting Sonya in MK9 was wrong.
On one hand, I thought her top was dumb even if it were worn by anyone else. That's a stripper vest, not actual clothing.
On the other hand, I decidedly adore all costumes worn by the three Ningyja Gurlz and Sindel and even Sheeva, because they are from a different reality and their fantasy-esque outfits were hot and comicbook-style.
But what I do believe at the end of the day about costumes in games is there is nothing wrong with allowing people to choose what they want their characters to wear. I ran into a male character dressed in a bdsm outfit, for instance.
Art, however, let me just say this.
Art has had its definitions aplenty through-out the ages, the most widely accepted of which being that it is the depiction of the real with tools which our senses transmit to our minds, in order to express "something", convey a message or to garner a reaction.
That "something" may differ greatly between works of art: poetry conveys the mind and soul, murals tell sacred tales, and the depiction of the body could very well be to the desires of the artist.
Michelangelo Buonarotti's David in context is just a dude standing with a sling. Not wearing clothes is an artistic choice and whether anyone involved with its creation intended it to be an object of sexual desire or not is perfectly irrelevant in light of the art itself.
Now if he had holding his spear rather than his sling, in a posture which offers his services with said spear, that would be pornographic and likely not one of the greatest pieces of art ever made.
Context.
It matters.
In context women who are depicted desirable in computer games are just shooting, punching or whatever else.
Having the ability to dress them in modest garb so much as lingerie and then something inbetween has been an explicit marketing interest for many games, including DoA where you can literally put everyone into modest clothing so much as swimsuit.
Being inclusive should always be the goal, every time, being as inclusive as possible is always the way to go for endless reasons.
However, isn’t it true that there are simply more white men than any other demographic in journalism? Wouldn’t it be impossible to be equally inclusive for this exact reason? Yes, be as inclusive as possible, but to a certain point the only people that can determine the skin color and gender of what journalists will be doing their jobs is- the people who decide to be journalists. I think it would be smarter and more productive to encourage women and minorities to get more involved in journalism, that would be fantastic. I’d imagine that is more what Brie Larson is trying to say, but I don’t know what’s in her brain or her heart so I can’t say for sure.
that alone proves they're not only biased but support her crazy agenda, I refuse to see that movie because of her shitty attitude and her trying to project herself on everyone.
btw Krannk I agree on that point with having your art censored, I am also an artist who paints, sculpts from time to time and I have submitted some art before on sites and been rejected for "not being appropriate" whatever that means, not like I drew or painted porn but MK inspired gore and such. lol
That's not censorship, that's simply the site using it's right to not be associated with art they don't want to be associated with. They're under no obligation to be forced to display your art.
I would say majority feel she's nuts or projecting, notice RT had 70%+ people saying they're not interested yet RT removed that? Sounds like silencing people to me, that has agenda written all over it...what happened to freedom of expression? freedom of speech/views? lol But sure, no "Agenda" at all...also want to point out literally a BOAT load of youtubers bringing this up, only a matter of time til they're censored to for speaking the truth.
So you apparently are unaware of how internet trolling and review bombing works? Good lord, do you actually believe that the majority believe that? The movie isn't out yet, the only people posting stuff there are review bombers.
Btw freedom of speech applies to government censorship of speech, and (with limited exceptions) has nothing to do with Rotten Tomatoes fixing their audience score issue, which never should have allowed reviews before the movie was out in the first place. Rotten Tomatoes administers the site, and they correctly recognized that the audience score was being abused and didn't reflect the merits of the movie, but instead internet trolls.
You mean her crazy agenda where she promotes inclusivity?
That's not censorship, that's simply the site using it's right to not be associated with art they don't want to be associated with. They're under no obligation to be forced to display your art.
It actually is when they have similar artwork which I forgot to mention, or as I like to call it the google/YT effect. Notice they've censored lots of channels who happen to not agree with their political views, happen to get censored. That is censorship, to try to use "their policies" as an excuse is the biggest load of bs. If that were true they'd be banning every political video instead of just certain ones. That is an objective policy, not censoring whatever they feel like cause they don't agree. I know this being a Youtuber, knowing lots of friends who've been silenced as well as channels I've followed for years. Yet the opposite viewpoints are out there just fine wonder why hmmm
I'll probably get shit on for saying this, but...
I mean, you start out a thought by saying how you don't care what white men think about whatever, then, being one myself, I'm going to automatically start not giving af about what you're saying. That's the problem here.
If it's about being inclusive (which is great), then don't start it out by stigmatizing and generalizing against one certain group of people. I agree that it should be more about encouraging more people of color to be journalists than saying, I don't want certain people covering my press.
I'll probably get shit on for saying this, but...
I mean, you start out a thought by saying how you don't care what white men think about whatever, then, being one myself, I'm going to automatically start not giving af about what you're saying. That's the problem here.
If it's about being inclusive (which is great), then don't start it out by stigmatizing and generalizing against one certain group of people. I agree that it should be more about encouraging more people of color to be journalists than saying, I don't want want people covering my press.
She did not say this dude - the full quotes, with context, are in this very thread. She was giving a very baseline statement about inclusiveness. If you can't get past some phrasing to understand her actual point that's you're problem.
Have you looked around? I'd say games, movies and TV are pretty diverse and women can get any job a man can. You may want to invest time in what projecting is. I'll give you a big hint that is one big reason WHY Brie Larson is getting hate, but if it's easier for you guys to just call people who have no interest in her movie "trolls" by all means lol.
Yeah because women totally aren't getting hired or making good money, totally oppressed and limited to the kitchen... oh wait...Do you work if I may ask or ever have a job, curious? Because I have and have had quite a few powerful women overseeing previous jobs I've had in the past. Not only higher rank than me but making a lot more money as well. I also know a woman, daughter of someone I used to work with who's in radio magazines business, makes a lot of money in NYC and Cali and a girl just 20 years old who got hired by her local paper. But sure Brie, women totally aren't getting hired at all...She has it so hard, making millions a year. You know women can vote now too, amazing isn' it? .
So you apparently are unaware of how internet trolling and review bombing works? Good lord, do you actually believe that the majority believe that? The movie isn't out yet, the only people posting stuff there are review bombers.
Btw freedom of speech applies to government censorship of speech, and (with limited exceptions) has nothing to do with Rotten Tomatoes fixing their audience score issue, which never should have allowed reviews before the movie was out in the first place. Rotten Tomatoes administers the site, and they correctly recognized that the audience score was being abused and didn't reflect the merits of the movie, but instead internet trolls.
Actually I am, I take it you're unaware of what projecting, censorship and trying to silent people are? "trolling" lmao that's not trolling, disagreeing is NOT trolling guy. Trolling is literally spamming someone's profile or trying to be a wiseass, people merely using RT's own feature against them due to preference isn't trolling. Do you know what trolling is? lol Review bombers? lol right...that what we're calling people who have no interest in the movie now?
I'm aware of what freedom of speech is, and having a site no matter what you are then choosing to remove things you don't like said/agree with IS censorship. It has everything to do with RT fixing it, otherwise why remove it? lol Do tell, I want you tell me why go through the effort to remove audience interest then? Oh yes, because they're not worshiping Captain Marvel and are perhaps annoyed with Brie's bs agenda? I hate to break it to ya dude, but not everyone who has no interest in the movie qualifies as "an internet troll" but I get it, you see those who dare disagree with SJW's as "trolls" sounds like the typical argument but not surprising.
Yeah because women totally aren't getting hired or making good money, totally oppressed and limited to the kitchen... oh wait...Do you work if I may ask or ever have a job, curious? Because I have and have had quite a few powerful women overseeing previous jobs I've had in the past. Not only higher rank than me but making a lot more money as well. I also know a woman, daughter of someone I used to work with who's in radio magazines business, makes a lot of money in NYC and Cali and a girl just 20 years old who got hired by her local paper. But sure Brie, women totally aren't getting hired at all...She has it so hard, making millions a year. You know women can vote now too, amazing isn' it? .
yet the movie isn't out yet.
