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I need some opinions from the Community

Has NRS Gone SJW

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 21.7%
  • No

    Votes: 90 78.3%

  • Total voters
    115

HeavyNorse

#BlackLivesMatter
I know, I loved that old look. Now she looks like this:
That was one panel by one artist in one comic. Doesn't mean she looks like that in ALL the comics.
People just like to use that exact version of her just to try and push their point.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
That was one panel by one artist in one comic. Doesn't mean she looks like that in ALL the comics.
People just like to use that exact version of her just to try and push their point.
No I know, I think the art quality in most comics have really decreased since the crash of the 90's.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
That was one panel by one artist in one comic. Doesn't mean she looks like that in ALL the comics.
People just like to use that exact version of her just to try and push their point.
Point VS and I are discussing is that her overall design has suffered for the streamlining rather than that there is one artist who depicts her as masculine.
 

Marlow

Champion
VERY THAT! I dont even get why people would waste their time trying to be all PC about video games in the first place when there's real life matters that require REAL Justice Warriors.
I think there's definetly a time and place to step back and evaluate games through more of a "PC" lense, to see where we're at and where we can improve. There's plenty of great classic games which are perfectly fine games, but have some issues with how characters are presented and developed. This is true of pretty much any media, though, including books, plays, movies, tv shows, music, whatever. The problem is it's generally more of a complicated or nuanced discussion, rather than a simple Good/Bad or Right/Wrong discussion.

Here's an article that I think shows what I'm talking about. It's about classic books, but I think the same ideas can apply to other media as well. https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/26/695966537/classic-books-are-full-of-problems-why-cant-we-put-them-down
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I think there's definetly a time and place to step back and evaluate games through more of a "PC" lense, to see where we're at and where we can improve. There's plenty of great classic games which are perfectly fine games, but have some issues with how characters are presented and developed. This is true of pretty much any media, though, including books, plays, movies, tv shows, music, whatever. The problem is it's generally more of a complicated or nuanced discussion, rather than a simple Good/Bad or Right/Wrong discussion.

Here's an article that I think shows what I'm talking about. It's about classic books, but I think the same ideas can apply to other media as well. https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/26/695966537/classic-books-are-full-of-problems-why-cant-we-put-them-down
I see what you mean, I just think that we should enjoy what we enjoy, let others enjoy what they like and perhaps not be as nit-picky with everything because it does suck the joy away from everything. And I mean that from both sides, not just one.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
As long as she plays Carol Danvers correctly, I don't care.
I'll admit I despise the new character design but I knew that Marvel will go streamlined when I heard Disney bought it out so I'm not surprised they turned one of the sexiest superheroines into a watered down version.

I miss her classic look, it was beautiful.

Omg yes! I was really hoping this would be the look for her in the movie. It's soooo good!

Idk why they would change it. smh. I mean, I do know why, but sigh
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Yep same, I judge it AFTER I watched it. I know that marketing strategies can sometimes suck hard but the movie may still be good.

She's saying stuff like she doesn't want white men to review her movie and that people act like women in entertainment don't exist which makes no sense. Not sure what world she lives in, I guess she should play some DOA6 xD
She is pretty fuckin cringe, racism and sexism never looks good
 

Marlow

Champion
She's saying stuff like she doesn't want white men to review her movie and that people act like women in entertainment don't exist which makes no sense. Not sure what world she lives in, I guess she should play some DOA6 xD
The quote I saw was "Am I saying that I hate white dudes? No, I’m not. What I am saying is if you make a movie that is a love letter to a woman of color, there is an insanely low chance that a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie and review your movie. It really sucks that reviews matter, but reviews matter. We are expanding to make films that reflect the people who buy movie tickets . . .Audiences are not allowed enough chances to read public discourse on these films by the people that the films were made for. I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn’t made for him. I want to know what it meant to women of color, to biracial women, to teen women of color, to teens that are biracial."

and also "About a year ago, I started paying attention to what my press days looked like and the critics reviewing movies, and noticed it appeared to be overwhelmingly white males. So, I spoke to Dr Stacy Smith at the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, who put together a study to confirm that. Moving forward, I decided to make sure my press days were more inclusive. After speaking with you, the film critic Valerie Complex and a few other women of color, it sounded like across the board they weren’t getting the same opportunities as others. When I talked to the facilities that weren’t providing it, they all had different excuses. I want to go out of my way to connect the dots. It just took me using the power that I’ve been given now as Captain Marvel. The role comes with all these privileges and powers that make me feel uncomfortable because I don’t really need them"

She's very outspoken about her political beliefs, but I think some of these complaints about her views are being taken out of context. She doesn't hate white men, she just wants more inclusivity.

"What I’m looking for is to bring more seats up to the table. No one is getting their chair taken away. There’s not less seats at the table, there’s just more seats at the table"
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
The quote I saw was "Am I saying that I hate white dudes? No, I’m not. What I am saying is if you make a movie that is a love letter to a woman of color, there is an insanely low chance that a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie and review your movie. It really sucks that reviews matter, but reviews matter. We are expanding to make films that reflect the people who buy movie tickets . . .Audiences are not allowed enough chances to read public discourse on these films by the people that the films were made for. I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn’t made for him. I want to know what it meant to women of color, to biracial women, to teen women of color, to teens that are biracial."

and also "About a year ago, I started paying attention to what my press days looked like and the critics reviewing movies, and noticed it appeared to be overwhelmingly white males. So, I spoke to Dr Stacy Smith at the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, who put together a study to confirm that. Moving forward, I decided to make sure my press days were more inclusive. After speaking with you, the film critic Valerie Complex and a few other women of color, it sounded like across the board they weren’t getting the same opportunities as others. When I talked to the facilities that weren’t providing it, they all had different excuses. I want to go out of my way to connect the dots. It just took me using the power that I’ve been given now as Captain Marvel. The role comes with all these privileges and powers that make me feel uncomfortable because I don’t really need them"

She's very outspoken about her political beliefs, but I think some of these complaints about her views are being taken out of context. She doesn't hate white men, she just wants more inclusivity.

"What I’m looking for is to bring more seats up to the table. No one is getting their chair taken away. There’s not less seats at the table, there’s just more seats at the table"
The one I'm talking about is this:

"There's this sense of setting this thing up. I know it's exciting and fun to be like, ‘Will it sink or will it float?' ‘What's going to happen?' ‘Can women exist in the world?' ‘We're not sure yet!' But women have been opening movies since the silent era," Brie shared with The Hollywood Reporter. "We have been part of every major art movement. People just push us away once the movement gains momentum and act like we were never really there."

Which is the most ignorant thing she ever said and she's taking this a bit too far. Women have been part of entertainment for a really long time, longer than her and I even. Did she forget about all female-led franchises? Alien? Resident Evil? Kill Bill? Underworld? Not to mention all the other media, comics, books, tv shows, etc., I mean they're trying to paint Captain Marvel as a big deal when it really isn't.
 

ImperatrixSindel

Too bad YOU... will DIE!
Yeah what Brie Larson is mostly saying is that women and POC are given fewer opportunities to work in media criticism. She's not ~angry~, she's just pointing out something she believes should change. And while Captain Marvel certainly isn't the first female-led scifi action piece, it's pretty notable that it took over a decade for Marvel Studios to make a movie with a female lead.

Of interest to this thread in general -- Gita Jackson wrote a great piece in Kotaku today (I know not everyone likes Kotaku, but Gita is cool imo) about the abuse she gets as a black woman for writing about race in games, and how people assume she's angry or telling them they have to be offended when really she's just trying to start a conversation about a hobby she loves, and usually she likes the game she's talking about: https://kotaku.com/what-its-like-to-write-about-race-and-video-games-1832886047

I think a lot of people who get labeled 'SJWs' and get this kind of reaction are really just people trying to talk about something they see as having room for improvement. There are of course wacky extremists in any social movement, but if you dismiss feminists or other social justice advocates as just irrational fun-ruiners you will miss out on a lot of interesting conversation and discussion from people who might just think a little differently than you about a thing (games, movies, comics, or whatever else) that you both care about.
 
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Marlow

Champion
Which is the most ignorant thing she ever said and she's taking this a bit too far. Women have been part of entertainment for a really long time, longer than her and I even. Did she forget about all female-led franchises? Alien? Resident Evil? Kill Bill? Underworld? Not to mention all the other media, comics, books, tv shows, etc., I mean they're trying to paint Captain Marvel as a big deal when it really isn't.
I think you're proving her exact point though. Female leads have been a part of plenty of successful media for a long time. That's what makes it frustrating that film studios still seem to hesitate and ask the question "can we really do this with a female lead?".
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I think you're proving her exact point though. Female leads have been a part of plenty of successful media for a long time. That's what makes it frustrating that film studios still seem to hesitate and ask the question "can we really do this with a female lead?".
If directors and writers are asking that then they're the problem, not the fans, because we've shown time and time again we love female leads. I think maybe they're just trying to pit the fans against franchises like they always freaking do, just so we'll overlook that the writers & directors are the ones not doing this.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Yeah what Brie Larson is mostly saying is that women and POC are given fewer opportunities to work in media criticism. She's not ~angry~, she's just pointing out something she believes should change. And while Captain Marvel certainly isn't the first female-led scifi action piece, it's pretty notable that it took over a decade for Marvel Studios to make a movie with a female lead.

Of interest to this thread in general -- Gita Jackson wrote a great piece in Kotaku today (I know not everyone likes Kotaku, but Gita is cool imo) about the abuse she gets as a black woman for writing about race in games, and how people assume she's angry or telling them they have to be offended when really she's just trying to start a conversation about a hobby she loves, and usually she likes the game she's talking about: https://kotaku.com/what-its-like-to-write-about-race-and-video-games-1832886047

I think a lot of people who get labeled 'SJWs' and get this kind of reaction are really just people trying to talk about something they see as having room for improvement. There are of course wacky extremists in any social movement, but if you dismiss feminists or other social justice advocates as just irrational fun-ruiners you will miss out on a lot of interesting conversation and discussion from people who might just think a little differently than you about a thing (games, movies, comics, or whatever else) that you both care about.
Thanks for elaborating.
Here in Eastern Europe, the sexism in the human resource area is still quite prevalent but there is also ageism and a lot of -isms that are all stigmas which need to go.
On the same token, there are plenty of issues with how close-knit and despotic the entirety of the scene dominating workspaces still is in these ex-soviet-block countries.
For example, several businesses are monopolies or only have limited competition which leads to a flat market in which there is very little (if at all) drive for betterment or even just treating one's customers well.

Women in this environment, according to my own limited observations as well as stories told by many females close to me, experience not just the sexism but the masculine yet childish overall makeup of a strange vassal-capitalistic work-society, mostly comprised of "big brother" figures and their "yes men".

Having spent ample time in the United States I can safely say that there is very little in common with the hardcapped inbred chauvinism of an oppression-ridden society such as the ex-soviet-block and worse places such as the not-so-evolving parts of an all different third world.
Still, there indeed are some figureheads for whom I'd truly wish to instate groin kick as a valid legal response both in your country as much as ours.

Hollywood, as miss Larson and several others, have been stating, is one of such chauvinist spaces within an otherwise well endowed and thankfully majorly sexless job-market that is your country and I fully agree that women need to be given the exact same opportunity as men.

What I don't agree with, is how several very human aspects of humanity are treated by some prevalent American views, among them sexuality (of both men and women), violence, human emotion and death itself.

For first, somehow violence is fine but talking about death or sex in their truest and most human forms is somehow taboo according to these views, unlike in other parts of the world.

Next, somehow there are derogatory terms for very important and intimate human interactions and behaviours.
If you have strong feelings about something, you're "emo" or "mushy".
If you pour your heart out, you're "ranting".
If you have sex appeal and play at it, you're "slutting".
If someone's mother died, "deepest condolences (but don't get any on me)."

Finally, people like this may ask how you're doing but they'll be in a hurry if you actually tell them how actually you're doing.
You can only be fine.

And this, on the same token as people getting discriminated by age, sex, skintone, religion, nose size, hair colour or any preference, is not fine.

I feel that western society is trying to be so "politically correct" and focus on "equality" that the Institute of Equity and frankly, Humanism itself, is becoming lost on so many people.

TLDR People need to worry less about specific topics and just be excellent to one another / stop running away from the most human aspects of humanity while sanctifying superficial and meaningless, parroted and often fake ideals.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Disney.
No sexy.
It's that simple and I think it's fine in a way.
Yeah, I agree. Nitpicking for something not being sexy enough is useless and the same goes for nitpicking something that's too sexy. DOA has its style, MK has it's style, Disney has its thing and it's perfectly fine the way it is. I think the problem is they're trying to say that the uniqueness of all these franchises isn't good, that there should be a 'standard' for all costumes and player models which actually stunts creativity and what we all love individually from all these different things.
 

ImperatrixSindel

Too bad YOU... will DIE!
For first, somehow violence is fine but talking about death or sex in their truest and most human forms is somehow taboo according to these views, unlike in other parts of the world.
This I will agree is a huge problem endemic to American culture, stemming from the Puritan ethic that was established early in the history of the country. My parents personally had a very different attitude when I was a kid, thankfully, and never had a problem with media that was sexually-charged but did have a problem with violent media. I think that's a much healthier outlook, personally.

I am all for sexy -- sexy men and sexy women, sexy straight people and gay people and bisexual people and whatever else, and people enjoying sex and enjoying their sexuality. What matters to me is primarily that women in art be treated with respect, because as you point out the arts is a historically chauvinistic space and I do believe that how women are presented in the media impacts how men treat women in real life.

I don't care if female characters are scantily clad. I don't care if they like to have sex. I care that they feel like real people and they aren't just toys for male amusement, you know? I've always loved Mortal Kombat, which is hardly a feminist franchise, since the very first game -- because the female characters are interesting and powerful and have their own motivations. MK9 was a lot of fun as a game, but the porn-y presentation of the female characters -- both in attire and in their behavior -- was a big turnoff for me.

I'm glad NRS has course-corrected and gone back to an aesthetic closer to their classic one, with characters of all genders who are attractive and fit and sexy, but aren't defined by their nature as a sexual fantasy. This version of Sonya Blade might not turn people on as much, but it's a much more interesting take on her character to me than the MK9 iteration where she's a Special Forces operative with her naked boobs hanging out of a tactical vest.
 
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neveradestroyer

Kombatant
What makes me laugh is that people are saying to treat cartoon objects of a videogame with respect. And a gory one of that. Look! I don't care if They are putting the sexyness of the 1930's. Which they are doing to please SJW'S obviously. I do care however when They cut the gore of the game in a way that looks trashy. Like that injustice style fatalities. Even the commentator says the winning statement backwards. Wtf is that man?.
 

ImperatrixSindel

Too bad YOU... will DIE!
What makes me laugh is that people are saying to treat cartoon objects of a videogame with respect.
The way women are represented in any kind of art impacts how people treat and view women. Female 'cartoon objects of a videogame' are generally treated and presented very differently from male 'cartoon objects of a video game'. This is not that hard a thing to understand.
 

neveradestroyer

Kombatant
As I say I don't care. I just want to humiliate my opponent with a 13321 mega combo into a gory brutality like in the Mk trilogy games. You can actually turn characters into a literal dogshit and If I can do that I would be happy. But muh poor woman of a killing fighting game. Oh how much I want Jason vorhess and Freddy Krueger in this game.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
As I say I don't care. I just want to humiliate my opponent with a 13321 mega combo into a gory brutality like in the Mk trilogy games. You can actually turn characters into a literal dogshit and If I can do that I would be happy. But muh poor woman of a killing fighting game. Oh how much I want Jason vorhess and Freddy Krueger in this game.
I get what you're saying, you don't notice that stuff just like you don't notice or judge someone based on their skin color, but some people do and sometimes more thought has to go into how these characters will be perceived because it is important for everyone, regardless of gender or race, to be portrayed positively. I think NRS wants their characters to look cool and badass more than sexy and that's fine I think they've always treated men and women characters positively.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I disagree with the notion that women in media are portrayed badly in 2019, not that most people would really try to argue this.