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Guide "I Love My Job" -- Deathstroke General Discussion Thread

DaiHuu

DaiHuu

Nightwolf Mourner
Zer0 Hundr3d said:
'cause kneejerk nerfs. That's why.
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I don't think Superman is bad, seems 5-5 or in our favor honestly. If he does f23 ice breath, you can check him with d1, you control the air more than he does and he's forced to play your game, the only thing you have to worry about is his range on his normals.
 
Gesture Required Ahead

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
DaiHuu said:
I don't think Superman is bad, seems 5-5 or in our favor honestly. If he does f23 ice breath, you can check him with d1, you control the air more than he does and he's forced to play your game, the only thing you have to worry about is his range on his normals.
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Checking him with D1 is dangerous. He can backdash then F23 again.
 
DuskAlloy

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
Zer0 Hundr3d said:
True. But man some players are random as hell. I've afraid as to even let go of block sometimes. It's Kung Lao all over again.
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Ive noticed this game has made me develop bad habits, I hesitate when I need to rushdown against top tier character because I feel like one mistake and I lose half health lol
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Question: Does a special on reversal come out faster than a normal move after blocking?

Example: Spin is 7 frame startup. So is D1 (IIRC).
If I block nd immediately D1, is it just as fast as reversal Spin?
 
Coddfish

Coddfish

Noob
Mikman360 said:
Question: Does a special on reversal come out faster than a normal move after blocking?

Example: Spin is 7 frame startup. So is D1 (IIRC).
If I block nd immediately D1, is it just as fast as reversal Spin?
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As far as I know, yes.
But with that said, you can buffer reversals, but I don't believe you can buffer normals. So you'd have to be frame perfect to get D1 out as quickly as Spin.
 
Gesture Required Ahead

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Mikman360 said:
Question: Does a special on reversal come out faster than a normal move after blocking?

Example: Spin is 7 frame startup. So is D1 (IIRC).
If I block nd immediately D1, is it just as fast as reversal Spin?
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I don't think so. Doing that would make it ever more messed up about the frame data. It's broken enough. Start-up frames are the only true frame data we get.
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Firstly
When DS throws he has a chance of saying the following badassedness
"You're too slow!"
"You're boring!"
"I love my job."
"I'll make you bleed."

Too good man.

Secondly, I'm going to start using sweep more. The options you get off of it are insane. Just one sweep combo I came up with in ten seconds

132 j.2 d.3

It sets you up for an easy 50/50, or you have the option to armor f.3 if they try to wake up. In addition to THAT you can throw them and just go lolzoning mode. If you want to keep them close, you can check with f.23 for a hit confirm into sword flip and +9 on block.

Am I good yet? ;_;
 
Coddfish

Coddfish

Noob
DuskAlloy said:
So when you really think about it Deathstroke is basically sonic... huh
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I sincerely hope he says this in matches against Flash.

As for RYX's thoughts on the sweep. I push that button way to much, force of habit for me in Every Fighting Game Ever, and it gets me blown up all the time when I'm stupid about it :(

I like your thoughts on ending combos with it, but do you think there's any benefit to using sweep over Sword Flip? A can't imagine any sweep combos netting more damage than a full flip combo, and I can't see what oki options sweep gives you that flip doesn't. What am I missing?

I was playing around with Sweep, Forward Dash, Neutral Jump setups for ghetto ambiguous crossups earlier today (dashing in after a sweep puts you right on top of them), but I couldn't really find anything useful.
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Coddfish said:
I sincerely hope he says this in matches against Flash.

As for RYX's thoughts on the sweep. I push that button way to much, force of habit for me in Every Fighting Game Ever, and it gets me blown up all the time when I'm stupid about it :(

I like your thoughts on ending combos with it, but do you think there's any benefit to using sweep over Sword Flip? A can't imagine any sweep combos netting more damage than a full flip combo, and I can't see what oki options sweep gives you that flip doesn't. What am I missing?

I was playing around with Sweep, Forward Dash, Neutral Jump setups for ghetto ambiguous crossups earlier today (dashing in after a sweep puts you right on top of them), but I couldn't really find anything useful.
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Ending with Sword Flip in most of your BnB's puts them too far away for you to really put them in much of an oki game up close since you spend most of your advantage dashing back in, of course, you want to use flip for the damage and carry but sweep and 123 are good if you want to stay mid screen a bit longer and stay close.

Basically it's really good for match ups where you lose from a distance. That's why it's got me interested. I'm going to see if I can find some good damage combos with it.
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
...Wow. I went 5-15 in a set with a Superman player. This MU is retarded and I feel exposed. (And also pissed at how lol this game is balanced)

Deathstroke's zoning sucks now, plain and simple. The chip and meter building is abysmal so you can't rely on it worth shit. You might as well not even zone. It's even worse midscreen at a distance where you'd think your counter-zoning could improve but now you're even more punishable than you were pre-patch. Having low guns as punishable as they are now is ludicrous and the air gun nerf is equally stupid.

And his up-close game is absolutely mediocre. All his fast normals have the Sektor curse and his few long reaching ones are like Raiden's sluggish ass. Sure, he's got 50/50's but it's not like he can ruin you extensively with the overhead option. His pressure is nonexistent and makes setting up for his 50/50 and vortex that much harder. Why would you completely gimp one aspect of a so-called "hybrid" character and then not buff the other? EDIT: Fuck, I'm so behind lol. His vortexes are good, really good, but do they make up for his otherwise lackluster move-set?

This character feels like a better designed Noob Saibot, but yet he feels just as flawed in concept. The only hope is the corner.

And Superman... I don't think I need to explain Superman.

Ugh. It's hard setting up for his mix-ups. I might need to spend more time with it, but having to work this hard in a game that's generally absolutely brain dead is... dumb.
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
RYX said:
...Wow. I went 5-15 in a set with a Superman player. This MU is retarded and I feel exposed. (And also pissed at how lol this game is balanced)

Deathstroke's zoning sucks now, plain and simple. The chip and meter building is abysmal so you can't rely on it worth shit. You might as well not even zone. It's even worse midscreen at a distance where you'd think your counter-zoning could improve but now you're even more punishable than you were pre-patch. Having low guns as punishable as they are now is ludicrous and the air gun nerf is equally stupid.

And his up-close game is absolutely mediocre. All his fast normals have the Sektor curse and his few long reaching ones are like Raiden's sluggish ass. Sure, he's got 50/50's but it's not like he can ruin you extensively with the overhead option. His pressure is nonexistent and makes setting up for his 50/50 and vortex that much harder. Why would you completely gimp one aspect of a so-called "hybrid" character and then not buff the other? EDIT: Fuck, I'm so behind lol. His vortexes are good, really good, but do they make up for his otherwise lackluster move-set?

This character feels like a better designed Noob Saibot, but yet he feels just as flawed in concept. The only hope is the corner.

And Superman... I don't think I need to explain Superman.

Ugh. It's hard setting up for his mix-ups. I might need to spend more time with it, but having to work this hard in a game that's generally absolutely brain dead is... dumb.
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Well hang on there buckaroo, we're jumping the gun a bit here. "Absolutely mediocre" is an overstatement.

F3 isn't his only overhead, though it IS a gdlk F3. Use it on opponents that have little to no choice but to get hit by it. No guard = combo. Guard = pressure, it's a win win.

Your pressure roots from F3. F3 into a high-low mixup, F23 (you may have to walk a bit forwards for it to connect, but +10 is plenty of time), 23, or 32 (my favorite). If you can land an F23 raw on block, you can get pressure from there too, but yes, the range is pretty meh.

Don't forget B2. That thing has mad mixup potential with the ability to be O-M-L (cancel into low shots) or O-M-O (all of B222). B22 is safe on block (do NOT go to B222 on block, that's unsafe), and so is B23F2 (stops at B23 which is safe). If you didnt realize it, B2 has a stupid huge phantom hitbox. Anything 3 can hit (that huge-ass sword swing), B2 can hit too, and it's a much quicker overhead than F3.

Dont forget reversal sword spin as a "get off me" tool. It's got fast startup and some nice range on it.

As for Superman himself, realize your zoning is STILL better than his, and still usable in this matchup. You just have to be smart with it. Low shots under his heat zap, and quick fire beats his heat vision to the punch. Air shots vs. air heat vision, don't even think about guns at a close range.
 
DaiHuu

DaiHuu

Nightwolf Mourner
RYX said:
...Wow. I went 5-15 in a set with a Superman player. This MU is retarded and I feel exposed. (And also pissed at how lol this game is balanced)
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Getting really tired at people bitching about the Superman match up, abuse J.3 more and don't bother trying to outfootsie him, either score a knock down and forcing him to play your game, or just bang bang. Keep him out the air and fuck his day up. j.3 Beats all of his jump ins, his anti air grab, and his f23. I played against a Clanmate, STB Knoterror, and went 29-8 against him.
 
Coddfish

Coddfish

Noob
Killzone said:
Batgirl VS Deathstroke = 10:0 Match Up

/discuss
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No, not even close. I know I was complaining about this MU after my first long session with a Babs player, but I honestly don't think this is too bad of a MU - 6:4, 7:3 at a stretch.

-At full screen, she can't do anything, as long as you're careful. Just sit on a block and make her come to you, especially if you have a life lead. Take some potshots, but make sure you don't get predictable with them. If she reads a gushot, she'll smoke bomb and you're toast. If she has a life lead, then full screen is a bit harder, because she'll make you approach her and that's quite hard. No jumping allowed (Smoke Bomb), dashing is okay but you'll eat a Smoke Bomb or Bola if she reads it.

- If she's rushing you down, pushblock is your best friend. It slows down her offense, and puts you at what I think is the best range to fight her. She doesn't have as many pressure options when she's outside B1/B2 range, and she'll have to deal with your 3 and F3 - but again, if you get stupid, she can Smoke Bomb to make you whiff these and punish them.

- If you knock her down, she'll want to do her DP, so try and bait it for a free punish. If she's smarter than that, you can still safely pressure her wakeup with armor F3/B3, crossup F3, and any crossup jumpins as long as you hit them deep enough to catch the startup of a wakeup Smoke Bomb if she tries it.

Now, I'm not saying it's an easy MU, not at all. But I really think this one comes down a lot to reading - whoever gets the most correct reads is going to win this one.
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
RYX said:
Secondly, I'm going to start using sweep more. The options you get off of it are insane. Just one sweep combo I came up with in ten seconds

132 j.2 d.3

It sets you up for an easy 50/50, or you have the option to armor f.3 if they try to wake up. In addition to THAT you can throw them and just go lolzoning mode. If you want to keep them close, you can check with f.23 for a hit confirm into sword flip and +9 on block.

Am I good yet? ;_;
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The only problem here is I don't see why you'd need to use D3 when 123 fulfills just about the same purpose. It does more damage in a combo too. It may push them back a bit more, but you can dash up to them in time to hve all the high-low options you'd have off of a sweep.

You did spark my interest into doing some D3 experimenting though. Turns out if you land one of these at a very close range, you are in the perfect condition to do an F3 crossup, even midscreen. It's kinda tough to set up though, but it's something to know.

Also, it seems like D3s and DS's MB Sword Spin Low have unscaling hard knockdowns, unlike Flip, 123, B222 etc. which have scaling hard knockdowns.

QUICK POP QUIZ: How many hard knockdowns does Slade have total? ALL character moves included, no stage interactables. Cookie to anyone who gets it right.
 
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