Guide "I Love My Job" -- Deathstroke General Discussion Thread

[Ermaculate_Slim]

We still don't know for sure if this will make a big difference. We don't even know the frames yet. As long as low gunshots doesn't go lower then -12 frames he should be fine. But I'll be doing a lot of testing tomorrow.

 

[Mikman360]

I'll still play DS for sure, although I might pick up a second just for when I need a change, something I've been meaning to do anyway. Probably Raven (because I like the Ravens and purple and she reminds me of Rose from SF a bit), but when MUs are more settled, I might pick up a counterpick to Slade's worst MUs.

To be honest, it's hard to say just how badly the nerfs will affect DS, because the patch notes are so vague. Zoning could be broken completely, or it could still be useful, albeit easier for some characters to get past - we'll find out tomorrow.

My main concern about this patch is that it says a lot about NRS's patching strategy, which makes we worry about the competitive future of a game I'm really enjoying. Patching "broken" things before the metagame has developed enough to see what tactics (if any) are actually overpowered, balancing around casual players who complain instead of tournament players/results (that's not a jab at casual players by any means, but they shouldn't be the benchmark for balancing), and possibly frequent patching in the lead up to majors that makes getting ready impossible because of changes having to be accounted for.
I never played MK9, but from what I've learned as a member of TYM for the past month, NRS did the same thing to that game. This makes me sad.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. They're just making the same mistakes as before.

 

[DrLupus]

This is the exact logic ive been spewing for a while. They said they wanted this to be a tournament scene game. By listening to onlince crybabies and not observing tournament data, theyre not on the right path.

Honestly, if some of the shit I've heard from stream chat, user comments and online were implemented by NRS, I'd never play this game again. NRS needs to look at the tournament play and results to ensure the viability of this game.

 

[Coddfish]

I think I've found a way to dirty up that corner vortex some more.

After the blocked crossup F3, you can do step 3(2), right? For two bars, do step 3(2)~DFMB. If it hits, free combo back into the corner; if not, you're in range for a high/low mixup with B1U2, B2, and F3 again. B1 and F3 can send them back into the corner again for free (I've confirmed that you can B1U2, dash under, 1, 323... but walking under doesn't seem to work), and B22 can send them back to the corner for another two bars.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot the important part. Without knowing cancel frames its hard to theorycraft, but 3~DFMB beats both Flash Uppercut and Lex Corp Charge reversals, but Kryptonian Crush and Batman Parry will beat it. So not foolproof, but still a pretty good option to continue pressure. Backdash seems to work as well, but pushblocking doesn't because MB B/F3 beat pushblocks - I never knew this!

EDIT AGAIN FOR MORE DIRT:

When people sufficiently respect 3~BFMB and are looking to block it, you can start throwing in 3~DFMB dash cancel B1U2 to catch them off guard. It's kind of hard to execute quickly (though still easier than SF4's ridiculous FADC controls) and is a pretty weak frame trap (can't get past flash upper reversal), but I reckon you can catch people off guard with that. DFMB dash cancel still seems to be safe against Flash Upper if you just block after and don't press buttons, so if people starting throwing around unsafe reversals when you dash cancel, you can block and punish them for it as well.

I'd love to see frame data for cancels and dashes, I reckon DFMB~dash cancel could open up a whole new bag of tricks, maybe. Or gimmicks at least.

 

[Mikman360]

I think I've found a way to dirty up that corner vortex some more.

After the blocked crossup F3, you can do step 3(2), right? For two bars, do step 3(2)~DFMB. If it hits, free combo back into the corner; if not, you're in range for a high/low mixup with B1U2, B2, and F3 again. B1 and F3 can send them back into the corner again for free (I've confirmed that you can B1U2, dash under, 1, 323... but walking under doesn't seem to work), and B22 can send them back to the corner for another two bars.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot the important part. Without knowing cancel frames its hard to theorycraft, but 3~DFMB beats both Flash Uppercut and Lex Corp Charge reversals, but Kryptonian Crush and Batman Parry will beat it. So not foolproof, but still a pretty good option to continue pressure. Backdash seems to work as well, but pushblocking doesn't because MB B/F3 beat pushblocks - I never knew this!

EDIT AGAIN FOR MORE DIRT:

When people sufficiently respect 3~BFMB and are looking to block it, you can start throwing in 3~DFMB dash cancel B1U2 to catch them off guard. It's kind of hard to execute quickly (though still easier than SF4's ridiculous FADC controls) and is a pretty weak frame trap (can't get past flash upper reversal), but I reckon you can catch people off guard with that. DFMB dash cancel still seems to be safe against Flash Upper if you just block after and don't press buttons, so if people starting throwing around unsafe reversals when you dash cancel, you can block and punish them for it as well.

I'd love to see frame data for cancels and dashes, I reckon DFMB~dash cancel could open up a whole new bag of tricks, maybe. Or gimmicks at least.

I should have mentioned this a bit sooner to you, but it turns out getting out of a blocked crossup is as simple as holding back and walking out. 32 still beats reversals, but honestly, opponents are more likely to just try and block rather than reversal out.

 

[IceNine]

Has anyone tested to see if the Sword Spin buff made it in, just not properly notated? I'm not really sure how to go about testing on hit advantage in training mode without a human buddy, or I'd do it.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Has anyone tested to see if the Sword Spin buff made it in, just not properly notated? I'm not really sure how to go about testing on hit advantage in training mode without a human buddy, or I'd do it.

No buffs, just Nerfs...get it?

 

[IceNine]

No buffs, just Nerfs...get it?

Well, there was seems to be evidence of a Bane change that wasn't in the notes, so I was hoping that perhaps the Sword Spin buff made it in as a sort of silver lining. Yeesh.

 

[Coddfish]

Has anyone tested to see if the Sword Spin buff made it in, just not properly notated? I'm not really sure how to go about testing on hit advantage in training mode without a human buddy, or I'd do it.

You can test this kind of thing by setting the dummy to jump, then doing whatever you want to test, and then holding up. Seeing who jumps first will give you a vague idea about advantage.

So, in this case, I set the dummy to jump, then comboed into Sword Spin and held up. Dummy and Stroke both jump at the same time now, suggesting its neutral on hit, whereas before the dummy would jump BEFORE stroke. Doesn't look like the alleged +4 on hit made it in, but it appears to no longer be unsafe on hit, at least :/

 

[Mikman360]

You can test this kind of thing by setting the dummy to jump, then doing whatever you want to test, and then holding up. Seeing who jumps first will give you a vague idea about advantage.

So, in this case, I set the dummy to jump, then comboed into Sword Spin and held up. Dummy and Stroke both jump at the same time now, suggesting its neutral on hit, whereas before the dummy would jump BEFORE stroke. Doesn't look like the alleged +4 on hit made it in, but it appears to no longer be unsafe on hit, at least :/

Is this so?

Before, SS was even on raw hit, unsafe on combo hit.
Is it now positive on raw hit, even on combo hit?

 

[Coddfish]

Is this so?

Before, SS was even on raw hit, unsafe on combo hit.
Is it now positive on raw hit, even on combo hit?

I only tested it on combo hit because I don't think things through all the way, will play around a bit more when I get home tonight.

With that said, some people in other threads are reporting that it's now + on hit, while others say it hasn't changed at all.

So we definitely need to play around some more to figure out the truth.

 

[Mikman360]

I could do some testing later tonight possibly. I'm curious.

 

[shaowebb]

Any changes to sword flip or other moves? Lots of stealth stuff seems to have happened and I'm eyeing Stroke up to see how his meta changes from what it was and what it becomes now.

 

[Coddfish]

It seems to be the case at the moment that I always get thoughts of things to test when I'm at work and can't test them. :/

I have reason to think that the F3 crossup works on small characters midscreen. While not quite as vortex-like as the corner stuff, if this works, it's still just another option to pressure little characters when you've got them knocked down.
Basically, I noticed during some games with a Hawkgirl player a few days ago that my F3 oki would sometimes cross her up midscreen. I've also found that a close F3 will cross up small characters when they're crouching, so either:
(a) my friend is bad and was crouch blocking on wakeup, in which case F3 will hit regardless of crossup
(b) due to their smaller frames, you can cross up little characters as they rise from the ground, even if they're stand blocking.

 

[AceKombat]

First post on the forum here.

I signed up mainly because of the interest about discussing possible stealth buffs/nerfs. I see some people talking about his Sword Spin change which I wanted to talk about too.

From messing around against my bro, it looks like they altered the hitstun of Sword Spin, but was I wondering if anyone went to test the frame advantage changes that really affect the special move.

The only input I can say now is that the reset glitch (from searching, it's called Ghetto Reset =P lol) doesn't work as often, if not, at all for me anymore after the patch. So technically, this can be a buff, and a nerf at the same time depending on who has a lot of Deathstroke experience. I'm sure a good player who knows the match-up more will know about the reset, and therefore this change can be a buff.

Basically, wanted to know if anyone got info on how they adjusted the properties on the Sword Spin move. My guess is that they set a cap limit on how low the frame advantage on hit can achieve based on the properties of the combo itself.

 

[Mikman360]

It seems to be the case at the moment that I always get thoughts of things to test when I'm at work and can't test them. :/

I have reason to think that the F3 crossup works on small characters midscreen. While not quite as vortex-like as the corner stuff, if this works, it's still just another option to pressure little characters when you've got them knocked down.
Basically, I noticed during some games with a Hawkgirl player a few days ago that my F3 oki would sometimes cross her up midscreen. I've also found that a close F3 will cross up small characters when they're crouching, so either:
(a) my friend is bad and was crouch blocking on wakeup, in which case F3 will hit regardless of crossup
(b) due to their smaller frames, you can cross up little characters as they rise from the ground, even if they're stand blocking.

It easily crosses up people who are crouching, but if you space it correctly as someone gets up from being knocked down, it can cross up anyone I believe

 

[DuskAlloy]

Well since i've been defending DS to the death recently, I might as well make DS my official secondary, I now have the stroke to go along with my dick

 

[Mikman360]

Well since i've been defending DS to the death recently, I might as well make DS my official secondary, I now have the stroke to go along with my dick

Lovely.

 

[Coddfish]

It easily crosses up people who are crouching, but if you space it correctly as someone gets up from being knocked down, it can cross up anyone I believe

Oh really? Well then, nevermind me. For some reason I understood that it only worked in the corner, and have only seen midscreen crossups against little characters in my games thus far.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Well look at the bright side fellow strokers, atleast you have me to keep you company

 

[Mikman360]

Oh really? Well then, nevermind me. For some reason I understood that it only worked in the corner, and have only seen midscreen crossups against little characters in my games thus far.

If you check my move analysis thread under F3, you can see Trini_Bwoi's crossup video where I first learned of its crossup properties. He first shows a midscreen crossup after a sword flip knockdown.

 

[Coddfish]

If you check my move analysis thread under F3, you can see Trini_Bwoi's crossup video where I first learned of its crossup properties. He first shows a midscreen crossup after a sword flip knockdown.

I wasn't trying to disagree with you! I think I just assumed the crossup only works in the corner because people often talk about it as a "corner crossup". My bad.

 

[Mikman360]

I wasn't trying to disagree with you! I think I just assumed the crossup only works in the corner because people often talk about it as a "corner crossup". My bad.

Lol I know you weren't! Idk where you got the impression that you thought I was. All I was saying is you can check under that thread for a visual example of F3 midscreen crossups. Just tryin to help brah

 

[Coddfish]

Hah, I think I read it as "here's a video for PROOFS!". My head's in a weird place today.

I get to take Slade out for a spin tomorrow, the first time since the patch. Against a friend who plays Batman (ugh), and now Batgirl as well (UGH). Should be interesting times.

I"m not thinking of jumping ship just yet, but who would guys recommend as a good complement to DS for a co-main? Preferably someone not to hard execution wise because I'm lazy about combo practice

 

[DaiHuu]

That F3 cross up really messes with someone's mind if you play a ft10 with them.