Guide "I Love My Job" -- Deathstroke General Discussion Thread

[Coddfish]

I may have found something useful to help with autocorrect problems in the corner, but it definitely warrants more testing.

When you cross up in the corner and don't auto correct, it seems like you can manually correct yourself by tapping towards your opponent before continuing your combo. This is obviously a lot easier after a cross up F3, when you know it's going to cross up, but I think it miiiight be possible to react to 323 going under, tap toward, then hit F23 and keep going.

Alternatively, and I haven't tried this yet so it's just speculation at this stage, I wonder if you could just kind of option select the manual correct in the corner, by inputting back-forward-neutral before continuing the combo with 12~whatever. I suspect it might be really hard to do B-F-N quick enough for 12 to connect without getting a B1 if you guess wrong, and you'd be sacrificing damage, but I think it's something that's worth testing if reacting to 323's derp crossunder is too hard.

Finally, I think it might be possible after an F3 corner cross up to dash under them, putting them back in the corner, and continue a combo from the other side with 12 or F23, obviously at the expense of a big chunk of damage from omitting 323 in the combo. But, if this works, it might lead to some formidable vortex like pressure in the corner by mixing up cross up/not cross up F3 into a corner HKD off either option. I say "vortex like" because I'm sure there are plenty of ways out, but again, I think it's worth playing around with.
I'll have a look at these tonight when I get home from work, but I just wanted to share now while they're fresh in my mind and in case other people can get to the lab before I do.

 

[Mikman360]

I may have found something useful to help with autocorrect problems in the corner, but it definitely warrants more testing.

When you cross up in the corner and don't auto correct, it seems like you can manually correct yourself by tapping towards your opponent before continuing your combo. This is obviously a lot easier after a cross up F3, when you know it's going to cross up, but I think it miiiight be possible to react to 323 going under, tap toward, then hit F23 and keep going.

Alternatively, and I haven't tried this yet so it's just speculation at this stage, I wonder if you could just kind of option select the manual correct in the corner, by inputting back-forward-neutral before continuing the combo with 12~whatever. I suspect it might be really hard to do B-F-N quick enough for 12 to connect without getting a B1 if you guess wrong, and you'd be sacrificing damage, but I think it's something that's worth testing if reacting to 323's derp crossunder is too hard.

Finally, I think it might be possible after an F3 corner cross up to dash under them, putting them back in the corner, and continue a combo from the other side with 12 or F23, obviously at the expense of a big chunk of damage from omitting 323 in the combo. But, if this works, it might lead to some formidable vortex like pressure in the corner by mixing up cross up/not cross up F3 into a corner HKD off either option. I say "vortex like" because I'm sure there are plenty of ways out, but again, I think it's worth playing around with.
I'll have a look at these tonight when I get home from work, but I just wanted to share now while they're fresh in my mind and in case other people can get to the lab before I do.

Seems like a lot of people have corner crossup problems. What combos are giving you that issue? Here are the easy ways around those pesky unintentional crossups.

F3? F3, Neutral Jump 2, 1, 323, F23 xx Flip
B1U2? B1U2, F3, 1, 323, F23 xx Flip

132 is a bit triky, but I never really seem to use it in the corner since there's no mixup applied to it. You CAN do 132, F3, 1, 323, F23 xx Flip. Basically, the gist of things is add in a 1 before the 323. I can't cross them up even if I try.

And that last bit of post you made intriguied me. I tested it, get this; it works! You don't need to backdash, just walk back a bit. Check it out:

F3 crosssup, walk back, 1, 323, F23 xx Flip for 31%
You can combo them out of the corner for 33%, but that sacrifices the corner pressure for 2% extra

...this is kinda big I might have to start doing this regularly!

 

[Coddfish]

It works with walking? Even better! After posting it, I thought crossup-dash-combo might be hard to hitconfirm, giving it a big hole, but being able to do it with walking should alleviate that somewhat.

Between this, the Sword Spin buff, and everything DS already has, I think his corner game is going to get nasty.

 

[Mikman360]

It works with walking? Even better! After posting it, I thought crossup-dash-combo might be hard to hitconfirm, giving it a big hole, but being able to do it with walking should alleviate that somewhat.

Between this, the Sword Spin buff, and everything DS already has, I think his corner game is going to get nasty.

...I actually cannot express to you how big I think this may be. I might have to make another video showcasing this. I'll credit you fully and split the profits 51-49, deal?

 

[Coddfish]

Also: I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to do MB Spin corner combos for extra damage when you have meter you're willing to spend? You're still getting the same HKD pressure when you do that.

Please go ahead and make a video if you think it's worthwhile! I thought about doing that if it the theory proved useful, but I've never made a video before and would be more than happy for someone else to take on that burden

 

[Mikman360]

Also: I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to do MB Spin corner combos for extra damage when you have meter you're willing to spend? You're still getting the same HKD pressure when you do that.

Please go ahead and make a video if you think it's worthwhile! I thought about doing that if it the theory proved useful, but I've never made a video before and would be more than happy for someone else to take on that burden

Awesome. When you get home, just try this this out.

blah blah blah xx Sword Flip (hard knockdown, end in the corner)
Early F3, walk back, 1, 323, F23 xx Flip = 31% crossup, opponent is back in the corner
Delayed F3, neutral jump 2, 1, 323, F23 xx Flip = 34% fake-out crosup, opponent is STILL in the corner

You can omit the NJ 2 in the fakeout crossup, but basically, the opponent has to decide which way to block based on the timing of your F3. Early = crossup, late = not crossup, both situations end up with them in the corner having to guess again. Since you can armor F3, this could possibly be very hard to escape.

I'm about to spam the hell outta this online.

 

[Coddfish]

If a character guesses cross up correctly, and buffers a backdash, they might be able to dash out of it? Of course if they guess wrong and try this, they'll dash right into Stroke's boot.

I don't think Bats or KF's slides will help them, because on fake cross up they'll go nowhere, and a real cross up should stuff their inputs, but I think it's worth checking because they may be able to slide under the fake cross up as well. Obviously they won't hit you if you armor, but it will get them out of the corner at least.

I'm not sure how meaty the F3 hits, but armor B3/F3 might work as an escape as well, since they get the armor whichever move comes out.

 

[Mikman360]

If a character guesses cross up correctly, and buffers a backdash, they might be able to dash out of it? Of course if they guess wrong and try this, they'll dash right into Stroke's boot.

I don't think Bats or KF's slides will help them, because on fake cross up they'll go nowhere, and a real cross up should stuff their inputs, but I think it's worth checking because they may be able to slide under the fake cross up as well. Obviously they won't hit you if you armor, but it will get them out of the corner at least.

I'm not sure how meaty the F3 hits, but armor B3/F3 might work as an escape as well, since they get the armor whichever move comes out.

I just tested with the backdash. Seems like it's possible, but their guess is just about as good for if the block, and a whole lot more risky since only the backdashes have invulnerability frames, and if they guess wrong they'll forward dash into Slades foot. So it's an option, but just as good as blocking and a whole lot harder to pull off. They're better off just holding back or forwards. That's also not considering how since F3 is a bounce move, DS players can charge the move to screw with their timing.

Wakeups work with the CPU, but you've also gotta consider how a real opponent would probably have their inputs all screwed up because you're switching sides as they get up. If you're really anticipating a wakeup, you can armor F3.

So technically back dash and wakeups work, but back dash just isn't really worth the effort, and wakeups may be near impossible to input in a real match. Realistically, their best bet may be just to block and guess right.

Oh and armor wakeups dont get armor until the 8th frame I believe.

 

[Coddfish]

That's good to know. It might be one of those things where some wakeups work and some just don't because of their hitboxes and such.

I've been curious about the timing for armor moves - I know you can input B+3+MB instead of charging it then adding armor, but I couldn't figure out of this input gives it armor right away.

Now, because I'm greedy, I've been thinking of ways to add extra levels to this:
How hitconfirmable is the crossup combo? Non cross up F3 has days to hitconfirm, especially if you omit the jump attack; if you can hitconfirm the cross up combo as well, you can take advantage of F3's ridiculous block advantage to go for a hi/lo(and possible Hi/Lo/Throw) mixup.


So then, the options are:
Fake crossup (hitconfirm) combo into HKD.
Fake crossup (blocked) B1U2, regular combo into HKD.
Fake crossup (blocked) B222, B22~Flip, B22~something else into HKD (I'm not sure what else you can combo off B22).
Fake crossup (blocked) F3 again into big combo.
Fake crossup (blocked) into throw? I'm not sure how close throw leaves you in order to start the mixup again.

Crossup (hitconfirm) combo into HKD
Crossup (blocked) B1U2, walk under combo into HKD? (not sure if this works)
Crossup (blocked) B222/B22~Flip, but this will end your vortex.
Crossup (blocked) B22~DFMB, walk under combo into HKD? (not sure if this works)
Crossup (blocked) F3, walk under combo into HKD
Crossup (blocked), back throw - again, not sure how close the throw leaves you to continue pressure.

EDIT: Obviously, F3s in those situations would be more susceptible to reaction blocking/armor counters due to its slower startup.

 

[Mikman360]

I tested that too. Here are my results.

If they block the fake crossup, their back is to the corner. You are so friggin positive on this move that you can land any move you want after it that's not F3 and B3. You can go for B1U2 for a low, you can go into B222 (hard knockdown ) or B22 xx Flip (also a hard knockdown), or you can go for a long ass blockstring F23, 32 xx Sword Spin. I tested this against The Flash's flying uppercut (fastest non-super move, 6 frames), he could at best trade with B1.

If they block the real crossup, they stagger block away from the corner, and Deathstroke is left in the corner. After that, you really only have 1 continuous pressure option. Take 1 step forwards and do 32. If they block it, you are safe. You can even cancel it into sword spin for more damage and pushback. If they try to reversal or they don't block at all, you'll hit them with 32. From there, you can get 29% meterless (323, 12 xx Machine Gun). The ONLY reversal I found that could stop this was Flash's flying uppercut. Not even Lex Luthor's Corps Charge (also 6 frames, but slower travel time) could beat the 1 step > 32 follow up. There's pretty much no way to get them back into the corner.

 

[Coddfish]

Guts, I was hoping we could make this even dirtier

 

[Mikman360]

Guts, I was hoping we could make this even dirtier

Lol yeah, Id throw away 2 bars to keep them cornered. The only problem is they seem to get pushed EXTREMELY far away when you F3 them in the corner and they block.

Well not really, its the same as it always is, but it FEELS like a bigger distance because normally Deathstroke closes the gap himself because he does this crazy front flip. Since we're F3'ing INTO the corner though, he doesn't flip towards the opponent, and they still stagger backwards.

At the distance they get pushed back, only F3, B3, and 3(2) will connect. Even for 3 you have to take a step forwards. F3 and B3 are too slow.

 

[Coddfish]

I should have known this - I was testing some crossup F3 (blocked) into bomb interactable setups yesterday, and none of them worked for that exact reason.

I wonder if F3~backdash cancel into something would be a good way to punish dash/wakeup attempts if people start trying them?

 

[Mikman360]

Wakeups I'm having trouble with still. I dont quite get them, so I'm having trouble testing them. I set the CPU Deathstroke to wakupe with Spin to counter my F3, and he could do it. I could not for the life of me get it to work. What's weird is that midscreen, I was able to get the text "wakeup" to appear with no pressure. However, when the CPU Deathstroke was set to F3 me on wakeup, I couldn't use the invulnerability of Sword Spin to get through it no matter how many times I tried.

 

[Coddfish]

CPU obviously doesn't have the issue of crossup stuffing inputs, but even when that happens, you should get a Sword Flip that gets stuffed, but shows Wakeup Attack text. I'll see what I can do with it, only a few hours of work left...

 

[Mikman360]

CPU obviously doesn't have the issue of crossup stuffing inputs, but even when that happens, you should get a Sword Flip that gets stuffed, but shows Wakeup Attack text. I'll see what I can do with it, only a few hours of work left...

It wasn't even the crossup stuff. I was just doing it midscreen and I couldn't do it. Im starting to wonder if there's such thing as a "perfect" wakeup and an "imperfect" wakeup, but the game still displays the white text telling you that you did a wakeup.

Lemme know what you find though, I might just be bad at wakeups.

 

[Coddfish]

I found the same as you. I can get wakeups against F3 flawlessly midscreen, but they just don't come out in corner, even with what I'm sure is the exact same timing. I've managed to make a wakeup come out in the corner ONCE out of a lot of trials.

A couple of other things I've found with this mixup:

-There seem to be three different timing windows - early, get a crossup; late fake crossup, we know about these. But it seems like, with timing in between these two (ie when I try to do the crossup but miss it just so) it does some kind of real dirty crossup where it hits crossup, but looks like it hits not-crossup and puts DS back on his original side. In other words, it looks just like a fake crossup in every way, but has to blocked as if it's a crossup. I've noticed this kind of weirdness trying to block others' crossups in the corner (Batman and his damn J2), glad we can abuse this as well.

-I'm having trouble doing F3, walk, 1, 323... I can't seem to hit the 1 high enough for 323 to connect. Also, occasionally, Slade will do his trademark "Fuck you, I'm facing this way and ain't turning around for no one" routine, and I don't autocorrect after walking under their flying body. One thing I've found that beats both these things, at the cost of 1% damage, is doing: Crossup F3, forward dash, 323... The forward dash recovers quick enough for 323 to connect, forces Slade to autocorrect, and just feels way easier to combo with overall. I thought this might make for a sweet option select in case you confuse yourself, just dash away from the corner and combo from both options, but backdash recovers too slow to combo after the fake crossup

-Throw doesn't work to start this loop, pushes DS too far back and knockdown isn't hard enough.

EDIT: Backdashes seem to be affected by the same weird stuff as wakeup attacks. Even if you buffer it, which works wonders midscreen, the dash just doesn't come out in the corner and the F3 catches you.

 

[Mikman360]

I found the same as you. I can get wakeups against F3 flawlessly midscreen, but they just don't come out in corner, even with what I'm sure is the exact same timing. I've managed to make a wakeup come out in the corner ONCE out of a lot of trials.

Yeah wakeups are funky in this game. I don't quite get them. All I know is that waking up in the corner proves to be harder than midscreen for some reason.

A couple of other things I've found with this mixup:

-There seem to be three different timing windows - early, get a crossup; late fake crossup, we know about these. But it seems like, with timing in between these two (ie when I try to do the crossup but miss it just so) it does some kind of real dirty crossup where it hits crossup, but looks like it hits not-crossup and puts DS back on his original side. In other words, it looks just like a fake crossup in every way, but has to blocked as if it's a crossup. I've noticed this kind of weirdness trying to block others' crossups in the corner (Batman and his damn J2), glad we can abuse this as well.

I did notice that too. I'm scripting the video I plan to make soon and I'm going to mention this. There's actually 3 F3 possibilities:

Crossup switch sides
Crossup no switching sides
Fake-out crossup no switching sides

-I'm having trouble doing F3, walk, 1, 323... I can't seem to hit the 1 high enough for 323 to connect. Also, occasionally, Slade will do his trademark "Fuck you, I'm facing this way and ain't turning around for no one" routine, and I don't autocorrect after walking under their flying body. One thing I've found that beats both these things, at the cost of 1% damage, is doing: Crossup F3, forward dash, 323... The forward dash recovers quick enough for 323 to connect, forces Slade to autocorrect, and just feels way easier to combo with overall. I thought this might make for a sweet option select in case you confuse yourself, just dash away from the corner and combo from both options, but backdash recovers too slow to combo after the fake crossup

Use whatever feels better to you. I prefer the walking back because it IS an option select to just walk back. If you dont switch sides, walking back puts you in range to do 1, 323. If you DO switch sides, walking forwards still allows you to combo. I haven't had much trouble with the facing the wrong way stuff. Maybe you're just timing it wrong? I'll put the video up sometime to show how I do it.

-Throw doesn't work to start this loop, pushes DS too far back and knockdown isn't hard enough.

Meh, Slade's throw doesn't ever really set much up from what I've experienced (and believe me, I've tried).

EDIT: Backdashes seem to be affected by the same weird stuff as wakeup attacks. Even if you buffer it, which works wonders midscreen, the dash just doesn't come out in the corner and the F3 catches you.

Good. That means this'll be even harder to escape

 

[Jack White]

"I Loved My Job"


Man, even I think those nerfs were too brutal if they are what I think they are. Way worse than we all thought.

 

[Strider86]

I'm still maining Ds after this patch lets discuss my brothers how do we stay relevant?

 

[Mikman360]

I'm still maining Ds after this patch lets discuss my brothers how do we stay relevant?

**** yeah I'm still maining Slade. We've only scratched the surface of his rushdown, even if they gut his keepaway. We don't even know the gravity of the gun nerfs yet either.

I just optimized a midscreen vortex with DS and I'm currently working on a video to showcase a new vortex for the corner. I will keep finding tech and making DS powerful for as long as I play this game.

 

[DrLupus]

I'm still maining Ds after this patch lets discuss my brothers how do we stay relevant?

I fully intend on still playing DS post patch. The thing that has me most upset with these changes is the fact that NRS is essentially listening to the online salt rather than going off tournament results. Batman, Black Adam, Nightwing and Killer Frost are receiving no changes and each aside from Killer Frost have multiple top 8 finishes. Aside from Aris' win at WNF, DS has no tournament wins. It's not like the character is so overpowered that he breaks the meta game. DS is meant to be a primary zoning character and it just so happens he has a better up close game than most would think. For NRS to give into the online crying over how DS makes them think and play patient when they face DS is what irritates me more than anything in this.

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

This is the type of stuff that makes you wanna quit the game. Characters like KF,BA and DD don't even get tweaked a little, but NRS decided DS was just way too broken and needed nerfs to give those 3 a chance to succeed.FUCK OUTTA HERE!!!!

 

[Mikman360]

I fully intend on still playing DS post patch. The thing that has me most upset with these changes is the fact that NRS is essentially listening to the online salt rather than going off tournament results. Batman, Black Adam, Nightwing and Killer Frost are receiving no changes and each aside from Killer Frost have multiple top 8 finishes. Aside from Aris' win at WNF, DS has no tournament wins. It's not like the character is so overpowered that he breaks the meta game. DS is meant to be a primary zoning character and it just so happens he has a better up close game than most would think. For NRS to give into the online crying over how DS makes them think and play patient when they face DS is what irritates me more than anything in this.

This is the exact logic ive been spewing for a while. They said they wanted this to be a tournament scene game. By listening to onlince crybabies and not observing tournament data, theyre not on the right path.

 

[Coddfish]

I'll still play DS for sure, although I might pick up a second just for when I need a change, something I've been meaning to do anyway. Probably Raven (because I like the Ravens and purple and she reminds me of Rose from SF a bit), but when MUs are more settled, I might pick up a counterpick to Slade's worst MUs.

To be honest, it's hard to say just how badly the nerfs will affect DS, because the patch notes are so vague. Zoning could be broken completely, or it could still be useful, albeit easier for some characters to get past - we'll find out tomorrow.

My main concern about this patch is that it says a lot about NRS's patching strategy, which makes we worry about the competitive future of a game I'm really enjoying. Patching "broken" things before the metagame has developed enough to see what tactics (if any) are actually overpowered, balancing around casual players who complain instead of tournament players/results (that's not a jab at casual players by any means, but they shouldn't be the benchmark for balancing), and possibly frequent patching in the lead up to majors that makes getting ready impossible because of changes having to be accounted for.
I never played MK9, but from what I've learned as a member of TYM for the past month, NRS did the same thing to that game. This makes me sad.