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Match-up Discussion HoneyBee's Flash MU Chart

Lone

Lone

KHAOTIC
Let's not even derail this thread, some good insight by Bee going on.

Zyphox, I don't even know why you care, man. Let the ego or recognition thing go. Validation? Whatever, just play. Starting to fall back into your old pattern.
 
Zyphox

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
Lone said:
Let's not even derail this thread, some good insight by Bee going on.

Zyphox, I don't even know why you care, man. Let the ego or recognition thing go. Validation? Whatever, just play. Starting to fall back into your old pattern.
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3 posts makes me fall back into my old pattern? lmao
 
Dirtylova

Dirtylova

YOLO FLYING GRAYSON BICH
Who wants to see a mirror MM?? Who GAF.. I wanna see Honey bee at the next tourney.. If Kombat Network wants to sponsor a hype/classy/guaranteed top 8 player, honey bee is the man.. The stream monsters would LOVE you guys for it.. @Shock
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
Dirtylova said:
Who wants to see a mirror MM?? Who GAF.. I wanna see Honey bee at the next tourney.. If Kombat Network wants to sponsor a hype/classy/guaranteed top 8 player, honey bee is the man.. The stream monsters would LOVE you guys for it.. @Shock
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Gotta wait til the cash flow resumes and Ultra Spec is back involved with sponsoring before we do anymore. Lots of players inquiring.
 
HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
@RNLDRGN @lm Tweakk

Here's the set between me and @WoundCowboy. If you watch all of it, you can tell where it becomes difficult for the Flash. I have to always respect what Sinestro does and react/read jump backs to try and punish them with flying uppercuts but a mistimed uppercut gets me full combo punished. I can't dash in or jump at him because Sinestro has a really good D2 and his D1~shackles or B12 will always beat me. My best footsie tool is B2 but it's 15 startup frames and it's slower than Sinestros B12 and it has shorter range. If I block the B12 I have to guess whether he will continue the string and if he doesn't I have to guess if he's going to try to D1 me after, Backdash, or jump back. On top of all of this, when he does start a combo on me he can choose to vortex me (in which case I almost always guess wrong >.>) or send me full screen and charge trait. When he's charging trait I have no option but to rush at him or let him charge trait, hoping he'll cancel it and do a B12. I find Sinestro gets trait VERY easily in this MU and then it becomes even more difficult. There is absolutely no way Flash wins this 6-4.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Gtfo ur n0t evn a R34l Honeybee wtf
Zyphox said:
shit and i was waiting for your reply. am i the only one that wants to see a honeybee vs Zyphox MM in the future or is INJ to dead at this point?
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Gtfo ur n0t evn a R34l Zyphox wtf

Your MM would suck anyway since your character is braindead

:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE

Ok that's my contribution to this thread unless I look back and disagree on the BG and WoWo numbers...which I don't
 
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Zyphox

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
HoneyBee said:
@RNLDRGN @lm Tweakk

Here's the set between me and @WoundCowboy. If you watch all of it, you can tell where it becomes difficult for the Flash. I have to always respect what Sinestro does and react/read jump backs to try and punish them with flying uppercuts but a mistimed uppercut gets me full combo punished. I can't dash in or jump at him because Sinestro has a really good D2 and his D1~shackles or B12 will always beat me. My best footsie tool is B2 but it's 15 startup frames and it's slower than Sinestros B12 and it has shorter range. If I block the B12 I have to guess whether he will continue the string and if he doesn't I have to guess if he's going to try to D1 me after, Backdash, or jump back. On top of all of this, when he does start a combo on me he can choose to vortex me (in which case I almost always guess wrong >.>) or send me full screen and charge trait. When he's charging trait I have no option but to rush at him or let him charge trait, hoping he'll cancel it and do a B12. I find Sinestro gets trait VERY easily in this MU and then it becomes even more difficult. There is absolutely no way Flash wins this 6-4.
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sinesto's b12 is 16 frame start up. imo against sinestro when you do get full lifebar on him like you did in the first game you have to be more than careful in getting hit. when you have anyone in the corner brady said it best to me, you have to work more on containment and less on trying to get a hit, he punished your attempt to try and sonic pound, had you stood your ground you would have been able to punish it and potentially force clash early. your analysis on the neutral is accurate. imo its more about hard reads in the neutral, like snake eyes with zangief, he would make a hard read after a ex green hands, either hes going to backdash or hes going to hit a button. its up to you to capitalize on a hit and get back into it if your read was wrong and not get flustered.
 
HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
Zyphox said:
sinesto's b12 is 16 frame start up. imo against sinestro when you do get full lifebar on him like you did in the first game you have to be more than careful in getting hit. when you have anyone in the corner brady said it best to me, you have to work more on containment and less on trying to get a hit, he punished your attempt to try and sonic pound, had you stood your ground you would have been able to punish it and potentially force clash early. your analysis on the neutral is accurate. imo its more about hard reads in the neutral, like snake eyes with zangief, he would make a hard read after a ex green hands, either hes going to backdash or hes going to hit a button. its up to you to capitalize on a hit and get back into it if your read was wrong and not get flustered.
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yeah good points, I should try to contain him better. I didn't know his B12 is 16 start up frames, it feels faster to me lol. Either way, I feel like I always have to respect his options more than he has to respect mine cause mine gets me full combo punished which leads to free trait for him
 
Zyphox

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
HoneyBee said:
yeah good points, I should try to contain him better. I didn't know his B12 is 16 start up frames, it feels faster to me lol. Either way, I feel like I always have to respect his options more than he has to respect mine cause mine gets me full combo punished which leads to free trait for him
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my stat is to just play footsies outside the b12 range and fake like your going to dash in, he can't throw a fireball without wasting meter at that range and its the perfect range where he cant dash up or he gets hit by a b2, your forward walk speed is just as good as his back walk speed if not better, imo you have to make him hang him self as much as he tries to make you hang yourself. react to a trait charge with sonic pound and condition that because sinestro likes to trait then duck immediately to try to bait you at that range. but the parts i did watch you did well in capatalizing hits especially off anti air DP's. also you can walk up on sinestro's wake up and block it and punish with standing 1 to stop him from doing that.
 
RTM2004

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
HoneyBee said:
I didn't know his B12 is 16 start up frames, it feels faster to me lol.
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Sinestro's B1 is like Aquaman's B1 when you are in his range he can just mash it and you can't interrupt its hurtbox. Unlike Flash B2 you can interrupt it even neutral jump it.
Probably the best option is to be outside max range of his B12 then whiff punish it when thrown out there (you did in the video). Then you have to worry about his Trait.......
 
RNLDRGN

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
HoneyBee said:
@RNLDRGN @lm Tweakk

Here's the set between me and @WoundCowboy. If you watch all of it, you can tell where it becomes difficult for the Flash. I have to always respect what Sinestro does and react/read jump backs to try and punish them with flying uppercuts but a mistimed uppercut gets me full combo punished. I can't dash in or jump at him because Sinestro has a really good D2 and his D1~shackles or B12 will always beat me. My best footsie tool is B2 but it's 15 startup frames and it's slower than Sinestros B12 and it has shorter range. If I block the B12 I have to guess whether he will continue the string and if he doesn't I have to guess if he's going to try to D1 me after, Backdash, or jump back. On top of all of this, when he does start a combo on me he can choose to vortex me (in which case I almost always guess wrong >.>) or send me full screen and charge trait. When he's charging trait I have no option but to rush at him or let him charge trait, hoping he'll cancel it and do a B12. I find Sinestro gets trait VERY easily in this MU and then it becomes even more difficult. There is absolutely no way Flash wins this 6-4.
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Fair enough. My Sinestro isn't my best character--I've just always had a little trouble with the matchup, but I can totally see how after grinding it out that things would unfold the way you've described above.

Word.
 
Pnut

Pnut

Mouth of the Illuminati
Sinestro Flash is 5-5. Sinestro out footsies him but if Flash gets in its a nightmare for Sinestro to get out.
 
Relaxedstate

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
This is an awesome MU chart! I agree with Zod, Flash has great tools to defend against trait, fucks him over in the corner (no fully invincible wakeup), and out footsie him hard in the neutral if he is careful not to wiff his b2/f2 strings.

Cyborg really does lose this bad. I used to be good at keeping flash out and maybe generate 20% chip damage from his 2% fireballs. However, a good flash can get in pretty easily since his zoning is so 1 dimensional and once flash is in... RIP the borg. Flashes damage makes me salty lol. I will agree that Flashe beats Cyborg 7-3. (Ill hold hope for a 6-4) This MU is so much easier to play with Zod (and it is one of Zods harder MUs lol).
 
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