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Hey guys! Did you miss me?!

One last thing. Someone here commented on what Joe said about MK9 not deserving to be in MLG. You said that it was because of the hard work of the community that it got in. Guess what everyone? MLG could give TWO SHITS about this or any other fighting game community. All that money came from Sony because they saw $_$ in this game, that's it. It was more advertising revenue for Dr. Pepper and whatever other companies sponsor MLG because MK9 was the flavor of the year last year. If they gave two shits about the dedication of this community, why isn't MK9 still in MLG? Where's Injustice at in MLG? You keep confusing the garbage that is MK9 and the incredibly die-hard, dedicated community that is the MK community. You know who cares about your hard work? WE DO. The FGC cares. Do you know how hard Matt Phil and Nit bust their ass to get streams up for you guys at every major in the northeast? Have you SEEN their rigs? Why weren't they brought in to MLG? Phil was for commentary, and that was dope and well deserved, but the people who were breaking their backs with Phil were left at the wayside because all MLG cares about is money. They are in the business of making money. Open your eyes. They never cared about you, they never will. You were a quick cash grab and you welcome it with open arms even though we all warned you about it. And yet, here we are, 1 year later, still running your games at our tournaments like nothing changed. Good shit.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
i read li joe's and SJC comments and all i have to say is no one is understanding each other, and both sides are biased in one way or another. but its human nature.
thisisiloveu thank you for clarifying that its not just about the money, just understand from another point of view that it CAN seem that way now a days. my first tournament was ect4 SweetJohnnyCage and it was so beautiful, hype and i can't wait for ect5 this year. just understand people are different, some people get butt hurt for dissin their game, and to Cat and 16 Bit regardless of what was said before everyone deserves another chance, li joe is an OG and i can see why his past comments might hurt more than others because of how well known he is and that he was a supporter of mk for so long. i think both sides can just refresh, something were said, some people feel a certain ways about what was said, and i am pretty sure we are all adults here so i propose a truce. don't think it is weak to acknowledge that other people have different opinions and come to an agreement. no one is perfect and we should just let this shit end now, Joe thanks for coming back i hope to see you and SJC at ect 5 and hopefully support this game like you did with mk for so long. to cat and 16 bit, thank you for speaking up your thoughts for the defense of our community and hope you guys do well in injustice. :)
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
Zyphox please explain how we're not understanding each other.

That's not meant in a snarky/dickish attitude, I just want to be sure of what people mean.
people get hurt when there favorite game is "trashed", and some people go to the extreme and may act like you killed there kids for saying stuff about something they are passionate (not literally). at the same time cat and 16 bit don't know all the things you guys know about how much joe has done for our community and how you guys are the real supporters even though you don't like said game, you care more about the community. am i right?
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
One last thing. Someone here commented on what Joe said about MK9 not deserving to be in MLG. You said that it was because of the hard work of the community that it got in. Guess what everyone? MLG could give TWO SHITS about this or any other fighting game community. All that money came from Sony because they saw $_$ in this game, that's it. It was more advertising revenue for Dr. Pepper and whatever other companies sponsor MLG because MK9 was the flavor of the year last year. If they gave two shits about the dedication of this community, why isn't MK9 still in MLG?
I'm not going to jump into the rest of this argument, but I do want to correct this one fallacy -- fighting games have always been a financial loss for MLG. This has been stated by Sundance, and he made it clear that he was running the tournaments out of goodwill for the fighting games and their players.

Even if you don't take his word for it, if you know anything about CPM's, the numbers for MK weren't enough for anyone to take to the bank on ad revenue (or even just to pay for setting up the consoles); but the quality of the tournaments and the level of competition were always great. I'm sure Sony contributed to the prize pool, but let's be realistic: they could have cut fighting games at any point given what SC and LoL were generating, but they stuck with it for the entire season and I respect that.

Injustice hasn't been at MLG because it's not even released yet; but it may be there in the future. I'm not jumping to conclusions now, and I hope no one else does either.
 
I'm not going to jump into the rest of this argument, but I do want to correct this one fallacy -- fighting games have always been a financial loss for MLG. This has been stated by Sundance, and he made it clear that he was running the tournaments out of goodwill for the fighting games and their players.

Even if you don't take his word for it, if you know anything about CPM's, the numbers for MK weren't enough for anyone to take to the bank on ad revenue (or even just to pay for setting up the consoles); but the quality of the tournaments and the level of competition were always great. I'm sure Sony contributed to the prize pool, but let's be realistic: they could have cut fighting games at any point given what SC and LoL were generating, but they stuck with it for the entire season and I respect that.

Injustice hasn't been at MLG because it's not even released yet; but it may be there in the future. I'm not jumping to conclusions now, and I hope no one else does either.
I understand what you're saying. I know MK got low numbers, and that's the reason it was dropped. NRS/WB had a 1 season contract. I want you to watch something. There is a major FGC sponsor that is also involved in MLG right now that also has a 1 season contract. They are going to drop after this season. I won't say the name, but just watch it happen. I 100% guarantee you it's going to happen. More goes on behind the scenes than what Sundance is telling everyone. Do you know how many times I personally gave them the formula on how to get the FGC involved in a REAL manner that will benefit everyone? Three times since 2008. I know three people who worked there, asked me how to get it to work I wrote it out, gave it to them, and it was rejected at the meetings. MLG's problem is that they look for quick solutions to big problems. They put the right people in the wrong places. Why was Arturo simply a stream manager? Why wasn't he the FGC liason? Carlos was the FGC liason. I know Carlos personally. I've known him since Tekken 5 was in arcades. He lives 20 minutes away from me. We're friends. Everyone knows Arturo from every community, Carlos was better off behind the scenes. His resources were much better put elsewhere, but MLG doesn't look that far in advance. Look at how Capcom handles it. They had Seth Killian as their community lead. Why? Because everyone knew him from back in the day as a great player. He was heavily involved in Evo until 2007 when he was hired by Capcom on the SF4 project. Look who the community lead is now. Combofiend. Peter has been around for YEARS in the Capcom community and everyone knows him. MLG makes backwards decisions on things that don't matter to them. The FGC didn't matter to them. It was doomed from the start.
 
people get hurt when there favorite game is "trashed", and some people go to the extreme and may act like you killed there kids for saying stuff about something they are passionate (not literally). at the same time cat and 16 bit don't know all the things you guys know about how much joe has done for our community and how you guys are the real supporters even though you don't like said game, you care more about the community. am i right?
That is 100% correct.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
SweetJohnnyCage yeah.. One of the things that I regret about the community is that people don't cooperate. The Fall Classic is a good start; but overall we need more people to work together to raise things towards a higher level of promotion. Otherwise, when you get organizations like MLG, they have a lot of resources, but won't manage things in certain ways that people 'closer to the ground' would. You wouldn't expect them to; they're multimillion dollar operations and have a totally different set of concerns and costs.

I respect MLG for giving fighting games their due treatment though, and they were continually very supportive -- but I think the next step is for people to figure out how to broaden the FGC audience in a collaborative way from the grassroots up, that's not so fractured into 15 different pieces/regions.

I'll be working on it this year; if you're interested in any of it, I'll likely give you a ring at some point. But it's critical that we bring people together in order to reach the next level if a larger 'esports' name isn't involved. There are millions of people buying these games, and a lot of them don't have a clue that all these amazing events are taking place each month. It's a huge potential audience, but it will take a concerted effort to reach them, and dividing the community even further will not help.
 
SweetJohnnyCage yeah.. One of the things that I regret about the community is that people don't cooperate. The Fall Classic is a good start; but overall we need more people to work together to raise things towards a higher level of promotion. Otherwise, when you get organizations like MLG, they have a lot of resources, but won't manage things in certain ways that people 'closer to the ground' would. You wouldn't expect them too; they're multimillion dollar operations.

I respect MLG for giving fighting games their due treatment though, and they were continually very supportive -- but I think the next step is for people to figure out how to broaden the FGC audience in a collaborative way from the grassroots up, that's not so fractured into 15 different pieces/regions.

I'll be working on it this year; if you're interested in any of it, I'll likely give you a ring at some point. But it's critical that we bring people together in order to reach the next level if a larger 'esports' name isn't involved.

Not trying to argue everything you say, because I agree with what you're saying about people needing to work together. But the issue is that a lot of TOs have huge egos and are impossible to work with. It's been tried as recently as October of 2012. That's why me, Joe, Eric and Larry work together. We have the same approach to running events, and it works. Our events grow year over year. We still disagree on stuff, but from conflict comes better rounded ideas. Some TOs are absolute control freaks and can't be reasoned with, or are simply in it for the money or to put themselves on center stage. It's a reality that we've been facing for a while. It's like when you're in school doing a group project. Not everyone works well in groups, some people can't work with other people, it's just how life goes.

The other point I'd like to bring up is, why go to the MLG model? Does it necessarily work? What's being sacrificed in return? Why strive for eSports? Although I think that's a stupid term to begin with, we all play games competitively, so just call it competitive gaming and put an umbrella over it. James Chen has a great analogy for this very thing. You wouldn't ask the people who run Wimbledon to run the Stanley Cup. It's still sports, but it's completely different at the same time. Let them do what they do, while we do what we do.

There is also an incredible difference between us and the PC community. We come from arcades. Dirty, grimy, filthy arcades where shit talk happened face to face, not over ventrilo. We include EVERYONE in our tournaments, not just the top 32 or whatever. Every tournament is an open tournament. PC games are not like that on the big stage. Local events hardly happen because (and I sound like an old man saying this, but it's true) LAN parties never happen. The local level is near nonexistent. It's all online. There are separate brackets for newer players and pros. It's even like this in Quake, a game that I play every single day. Fighting game tournaments are not like PC tournaments. The communities are different, the rules are different. Would you be OK if I told you "hey since you haven't placed Top 8 in any open major, you can't enter The Fall Classic, but you can still pay $50 to be here"? It's not fair to the community to do that, and that's all we are looking out for. We're letting our events grow organically like we always have. Give it time and big things will come. In 5 short years, we've increased the attendance of ECT 700% from the first year. We reach for the stars, but stay grounded and realistic while sticking to our morals.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
If Joe has done so much for the community then it needs to be better explained. I follow this scene super close and still have no idea what he's done besides blow up MK9 and play UMK3 back in the day. Neither impress me. You can't expect us to care about a guy if all we ever see is negative talk of our game and screaming to us demanding we respect him doesn't help.
Apparently not close enough because if you did, you would know that you wouldn't have a scene to play in without the support from LI Joe and others who helped build the foundation for MK at tournaments when the community monsters didn't want our games at their tournaments. The North East scene is the Mecca of true competitive MK and the driving force of competition around the country. Everything you have right now stems from us. There would be NOTHING without it. NUTHEENG. I don't think you realize how hard it is for a game to make it in the FGC. It was already there for you when you came around.

For the record, I don't like MK9, I don't know how I feel about Injustice yet.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
In before he bashes injustice a few months from now.

And okay he played umk3 ? That did nothing for mk9. Mk9 is now. Reo played umk3 years after it died. And still bodied most of these "og legends".
Mk9 is what it is from the support of you and Tym staff and the numerous of fans (who probably didnt start playing Mk until now ).
It did nothing for MK9? Really? Because I have run more MK tournaments than any person in this country, and I can say, without fear of contradiction that the only reason MK9 existed in the FGC was because of us running MK, primarily UMK3, for the better part of 10 years before it came out.
 
Apparently not close enough because if you did, you would know that you wouldn't have a scene to play in without the support from LI Joe and others who helped build the foundation for MK at tournaments when the community monsters didn't want our games at their tournaments. The North East scene is the Mecca of true competitive MK and the driving force of competition around the country. Everything you have right now stems from us. There would be NOTHING without it. NUTHEENG. I don't think you realize how hard it is for a game to make it in the FGC. It was already there for you when you came around.

For the record, I don't like MK9, I don't know how I feel about Injustice yet.
You know, I honestly forgot about how sidelined MK was for years because we never thought twice about including it.
 

zaf

professor
STORMS
Shock
SweetJohnnyCage
thisisiloveu

I loved how LI Joe was at Project Wolf. How many other mk players were there and live close by?
I got to share a few moments with him and summoning. Summoning told me all about their past and how far back their roots go. Joe might not remember me by name, but probably by face. We run into each other at every east coast major and he always says hi.

even sweetjohnnycage kept telling me to bring more people for MK to all the east coast tourneys when i met him at on the edge last year

If someone can not see what Joe has done in the past for MK as a whole community, then you really can not help them.

I know i preach this day in and day out, but for a lot of the new MKC addition ( mk9 players) this is their very first fighting game competitively. They have not been around long enough to see how it operates.

fuck man, i live in montreal. Home of street fighter. To this day no other game gets love in montreal except sf4.
but the one thing they do NOT do, is harass me for playing MK.
They encourage me playing it and support Jer and i. They dont like the game and will tell me why but i dont give a shit what they tell me because at the end of the day I keep playing.


Cat
calm down man, joe has years on helping the community over you.
you helped your local scene, joe helped the entire scene..

16 Bit

dude you attempted to rig brackets. I know it did not happen, but fuck man do you know how much harm THAT does to communities? Joe can have an opinion, because thats all it is just an opinion.
 
STORMS
Shock
SweetJohnnyCage
thisisiloveu

I loved how LI Joe was at Project Wolf. How many other mk players were there and live close by?
I got to share a few moments with him and summoning. Summoning told me all about their past and how far back their roots go. Joe might not remember me by name, but probably by face. We run into each other at every east coast major and he always says hi.

even sweetjohnnycage kept telling me to bring more people for MK to all the east coast tourneys when i met him at on the edge last year

If someone can not see what Joe has done in the past for MK as a whole community, then you really can not help them.

I know i preach this day in and day out, but for a lot of the new MKC addition ( mk9 players) this is their very first fighting game competitively. They have not been around long enough to see how it operates.

fuck man, i live in montreal. Home of street fighter. To this day no other game gets love in montreal except sf4.
but the one thing they do NOT do, is harass me for playing MK.
They encourage me playing it and support Jer and i. They dont like the game and will tell me why but i dont give a shit what they tell me because at the end of the day I keep playing.


Cat
calm down man, joe has years on helping the community over you.
you helped your local scene, joe helped the entire scene..

16 Bit

dude you attempted to rig brackets. I know it did not happen, but fuck man do you know how much harm THAT does to communities? Joe can have an opinion, because thats all it is just an opinion.
Zaf! Are you coming down again this year?