Has NRS silenced the Mortal Kombat 1 critics?

[Krasiox]

Yes but there was a lot to talk about.
People don’t get that MKX was exciting cause of the frequent changes. Major changes at that lol
Unlike mk1 it takes 6months for minor changes.

Average character talk from Twitter

https://x.com/i/web/status/1887016212296532360

 

[haketh]

No, it’s just annoying when people bash others hard work and efforts. Especially coming from people who haven’t contributed all that much (afaik) and are mocking people who have done so much for the scene. Ketchup and Mustard have done an insane amount for the MK/NRS community. From their content, supporting the games/community, them actually traveling and competing in tournaments, them constantly commentating and/or helping run events, etc. Constructive criticism is perfectly fine, but that’s not what you did. You literally laughed at someone bringing them up, and then mocked them.

It’s akin to the stream monsters in chat who will shit on a competitors gameplay who is playing on stream in a tournament. Like sure, the chatters are allowed to mock or “criticize” the players even though they’re at home alone in their underwear with cheeto dust stained fingers furiously typing away, but at least the player is there participating, putting themselves out there, supporting the game & community, etc.

All of this but also saying that they just talk about superfluous stuff is fucking insane. No one other than Dogura or GuileWinQuote is making vids that catalogue & keep the history of competitive games around like the Condiment Twins

I can’t think of any way you could label their content as just casual nonsense unless you have some corny axe to grind

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I'm also going to chime in and say there are plenty of people on this site who post setups and cool hidden tech CONSTANTLY, even people who have been vocal about disliking the game, like @just_2swift. So maybe instead of saying "lol people don't talk about tech in mk", how about y'all go there and uh, discuss the tech that is being constantly posted even by people who do not hold mk1 in the highest regard.

Just some few weeks ago there was a video of Shang/Shujinko INSANE combos. @Kiss the Missile is frequently posting disgustingly dirty Geras setups. @scarsunseen came up with multiple Sindel/Cyrax tech and now Cyrax/Cyrax.

The content is all here.

Myself, I don't usually comment or engage on tech threads too much because I'm a lazy fucker who prefers to play the game real time and figure out shit on live matches, and watch tournaments to find dirty stuff players are doing (and how others counter it), but I'm always observing. To say that there are no discussions of tech though is plainly not correct.

 

[Juggs]

All of this but also saying that they just talk about superfluous stuff is fucking insane. No one other than Dogura or GuileWinQuote is making vids that catalogue & keep the history of competitive games around like the Condiment Twins

I can’t think of any way you could label their content as just casual nonsense unless you have some corny axe to grind

Exactly. Their videos take a ton of research and effort. A lot of editing as well. And they actually reach out to people/sources to help with getting their facts or history correct. They’ve reached out to me before for UMK3 and MKT information, and I know they do this a lot with a ton of people. They put in so much work it’s crazy

 

[Trickywizard]

This channel has a lot of in depth content.

 

[Eji1700]

I need to make content to criticize it?

I'm just saying they don't exactly make the type of content that promotes the FGC necessarily, from what I see. I'm making light of how that isn't an example of what I'm talking about wanting to see.

While I came across more snide than I intended, kinda yeah because it's real easy to under appreciate how hard that content is to make and how much that content is probably doing exactly what you're asking for.

To start with, content is just fucking hard to make, period. There's a lot that goes into any video beyond "fuck it livestream". And even that is still good to have (love him or hate him if you want to see high level sub play sikander at least streams), but it can't be all of it.

Second, a lot of their content is EXACTLY the kind of content that helps keep casual eyes on the subject. While I agree Sajam hits a very nice sweet spot of talking about things that casuals care about while also providing meaningful gameplay and discussion, there's also a shit ton of content out there that's "hey remember this thing you liked? Here's what was going on with it." and it's SUPER POPULAR.

This is important because MK is objectively the hardest of the major modern fighters to make content for, full stop.

This is simply because yes, making money on your content makes it easier to make more, and you know what makes it hard to make money on your content? Having a major selling point of your content be ripping people in half in all its gory detail.

So yeah, I think it's a poorly aimed low blow to snipe at their work. It's very well made, actually bringing the kind of content many people want, and manages to actually survive in an environment that's naturally hostile to ALL mk content.

If you think they can do better, by all means, offer up advice. They do actually have serious character breakdown and strategy videos on their site, and I suspect it's what they wish they could make more of, and I'd bet money it's probably some of their worst performing content.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

We definitely need louder voices in the MK community that teach the game and support the comp scene and talk about the actual sport(?lol) of the FGC. I'll fucking throw up if I have to hear any of these videos again:

Will DLC save fighting game

How bad was fighting game at launch

game dead?

This 1000%

Behind the scenes, I was advocating for our podcast to actually discuss our competitive scene, updates to the meta, etc. And as soon as every episode started, it became nonstop dooming. That’s why I decided it was no longer worth the time.

If our talking heads are complaining about the entrants of X tournament, but they don’t show any support or love to the players who actually go spend their money and compete, they’re part of the problem.

 

[Jynks]

This 1000%

Behind the scenes, I was advocating for our podcast to actually discuss our competitive scene, updates to the meta, etc. And as soon as every episode started, it became nonstop dooming. That’s why I decided it was no longer worth the time.

you just have to say "no dooming"..... there is a is difference between "being a shill" and speaking about what is positive in the game. A Podcast like this is a good idea.. but you have to agree off air before hand what the focus is, and shut down people who are off road, even mute them if they do not get on topic. You need to actually run the podcast, not just record a "chat with mates".

There is nothing wrong with having a section of the podcast called something like "state of the game" where anything can be discussed, including dooming... but if you want to talk about Havik Tech... you need to ONLY talk about Havik Tech, as in tech he has.. not what he hasn't got, what he can't do and all that... talk about the tech he DOSE have and what he CAN do.

I get that a lot of people seem unable to think unless it is framed in negativity, but there are other ways to communicate. Look at R1p and Kolo. They get 100s of viewers, R1p almost every single day has 500+ and all the people who are entering. Make a podcast for THEM not for people that do not even play the game.

The fact is there is no content being made for the people that love the game, apart form all the online comps of course, and there are 100s of 1000s of us, probably millions of us.

 

[M2Dave]

Every community within the FGC "dooms".

People like Crimson and Vulgar were the first ones to post Arslan Ash and Knee's anti Tekken 8 tweets when doing so benefited their false equivalency arguments.

By the same token, I asked Tom to stop ranting and engaging in bad faith arguments.

NRS could mold Mortal Kombat 1 into the best Mortal Kombat game ever created.

The offline numbers would unlikely bulge because of all the reasons that have already been discussed in this thread and multiple others.

The NRS competitive scene lacks the legacy, mentality, internal structure, and trust in WB/NRS to support any game in the long term.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Every community within the FGC "dooms".

People like Crimson and Vulgar were the first ones to post Arslan Ash and Knee's anti Tekken 8 tweets when doing so benefited their false equivalency arguments.

By the same token, I asked Tom to stop ranting and engaging in bad faith arguments.

NRS could mold Mortal Kombat 1 into the best Mortal Kombat game ever created.

The offline numbers would unlikely bulge because of all the reasons that have already been discussed in this thread and multiple others.

The NRS competitive scene lacks the legacy, mentality, internal structure, and trust in WB/NRS to support any game in the long term.

There’s a difference between people dooming in random Twitter posts vs. not having prominent voices discussing the competitive scene at all.

I posted those tweets to show that every scene complains about its game — the mythical “perfect game” that T8 was held up to be doesn’t exist. But that’s fine — every fighting game has flaws, even the most historically beloved ones.

The difference is that those communities also have reliable voices that create content to discuss the competitive scene, regardless of any drama. Which creates the balance between criticism and support that’s necessary to grow.

Something like this has been sorely missing from our scene:

 

[Vulgar]

Every community within the FGC "dooms".

People like Crimson and Vulgar were the first ones to post Arslan Ash and Knee's anti Tekken 8 tweets when doing so benefited their false equivalency arguments.

By the same token, I asked Tom to stop ranting and engaging in bad faith arguments.

NRS could mold Mortal Kombat 1 into the best Mortal Kombat game ever created.

The offline numbers would unlikely bulge because of all the reasons that have already been discussed in this thread and multiple others.

The NRS competitive scene lacks the legacy, mentality, internal structure, and trust in WB/NRS to support any game in the long term.

Who the fuck am I and why would anyone care what I post?

A guy with an EVO medal and a very vocal former top player that likes Sub Zero on the other hand...

 

[superbn0va]

Every community within the FGC "dooms".

People like Crimson and Vulgar were the first ones to post Arslan Ash and Knee's anti Tekken 8 tweets when doing so benefited their false equivalency arguments.

By the same token, I asked Tom to stop ranting and engaging in bad faith arguments.

NRS could mold Mortal Kombat 1 into the best Mortal Kombat game ever created.

The offline numbers would unlikely bulge because of all the reasons that have already been discussed in this thread and multiple others.

The NRS competitive scene lacks the legacy, mentality, internal structure, and trust in WB/NRS to support any game in the long term.

Damn, i can’t help hearing your dumb voice while reading your even dumber comments. The elite community Guy here xD

 

[haketh]

Every community within the FGC "dooms".

People like Crimson and Vulgar were the first ones to post Arslan Ash and Knee's anti Tekken 8 tweets when doing so benefited their false equivalency arguments.

By the same token, I asked Tom to stop ranting and engaging in bad faith arguments.

NRS could mold Mortal Kombat 1 into the best Mortal Kombat game ever created.

The offline numbers would unlikely bulge because of all the reasons that have already been discussed in this thread and multiple others.

The NRS competitive scene lacks the legacy, mentality, internal structure, and trust in WB/NRS to support any game in the long term.

IDK why y'all are disagreeing with Dave here lol, he's not wrong.

 

[Vulgar]

Damn, i can’t help hearing your dumb voice while reading your even dumber comments. The elite community Guy here xD

Whoa whoa whoa.

Are you sure you wanna be an edgy alpha male on the internet?

Not every dog is ready to run with the wolf pack, you know what I'm saying?

Awoooooooo!

 

[M2Dave]

I posted those tweets to show that every scene complains about its game — the mythical “perfect game” that T8 was held up to be doesn’t exist.

As soon as the developers announced the direction of the game (i.e., "aggression) and the heat system, Tekken 8 was criticized, so the "perfect game" is a figment of your imagination.

Something like this has been sorely missing from our scene:

Kolosseum, Rips Arena, Tampa Never Sleeps, Destroyer FGC, Demon Lobby, etc. promote NRS games and the players without engaging in drama and discussing the hot button issues (i.e., release version of Mortal Kombat 1, kameo system, leaks, etc.)

There’s a difference between people dooming in random Twitter posts vs. not having prominent voices discussing the competitive scene at all.

I support you being the cop on the block and holding the community and its member, including Tom, Mike, and me, accountable..

But you have to hold WB and NRS to a high standard, which you have rarely done throughout Mortal Kombat 11's as well as Mortal Kombat 1's lifespan.

Most people do not want to be told "let us patiently wait" when the game has issues. Likewise, most people do not want to hear "I told you so" when the game's issues are fixed six months or a year later.

Damn, i can’t help hearing your dumb voice while reading your even dumber comments.

Still not as dumb as your Kung Lao buffs in the other thread.

 

[Vulgar]

As soon as the developers announced the direction of the game (i.e., "aggression) and the heat system, Tekken 8 was criticized, so the "perfect game" is a figment of your imagination.



Kolosseum, Rips Arena, Tampa Never Sleeps, Destroyer FGC, Demon Lobby, etc. promote NRS games and the players without engaging in drama and discussing the hot button issues (i.e., release version of Mortal Kombat 1, kameo system, leaks, etc.)



I support you being the cop on the block and holding the community and its member, including Tom, Mike, and me, accountable..

But you have to hold WB and NRS to a high standard, which you have rarely done throughout Mortal Kombat 11's as well as Mortal Kombat 1's lifespan.

Most people do not want to be told "let us patiently wait" when the game has issues. Likewise, most people do not want to hear "I told you so" when the game's issues are fixed six months or a year later.



Still not as dumb as your Kung Lao buffs in the other thread.

So the problem is that a lot of content creators and players think that - when a bug or issue is found - that it can be fixed with all the ease of flipping a light switch.

Fact is, any unforseen glitches found take time to fix. Time to code, time to test across platforms, hell just getting permission to do the work from the people holding the purse strings.

Point is - when people say to wait or be patient - it's because usually fixing bugs and glitches and yes, even character balance takes time. So yeah Crimson moving on the side of chilling tf out makes perfect sense.

 

[Juggs]

Most people do not want to be told "let us patiently wait" when the game has issues. Likewise, most people do not want to hear "I told you so" when the game's issues are fixed six months or a year later..

Of course people don’t like to be told how to behave (in general), but definitely don’t like to be told to “just be patient”. But I believe that there’s multiple things at play there.

Firstly, most people are impatient. They want what they want and they want it now. Part of the issue is how the world works these days, there’s so much accessibility to everything and obtaining instant gratification has pretty much become the norm. So there’s that aspect of it, then there’s the ignorance aspect. Where not only are they impatient, they have no clue how any of the behind the scenes things work. From coding, politics, getting approval, budget concerns, time investment, and many more things and things that I’m unaware of myself. Because I’m not going to pretend like I know what all goes into releasing an update. Whether it’s a hotfix, a small update just addressing bugs, or a large one addressing everything (from bugs to balancing). But from what I DO know, even the small updates take a lot of time. Also, there’s sometimes unforeseen circumstances that happen that delay productivity or just the release in general.

All that said, I do think NRS could be more transparent and communicate with the community faar more than they do. I think not knowing and being left in the dark contributes to people being impatient. And I feel like that is completely warranted. But people tend to take it too far a lot of the time, imho

 

[ImpostorOak]

Yall who claimed K&M are doing it right on YT, here's what they've put out for the last 4 months. 2 character guides, the Cyrax one I had to stop watching because Mustard says several times during the guide that he hasn't actually labbed the shit he's talking about and he'll probably do another guide once he learns the character, lol, the rest is ranked sets or the bullshit I was making fun of.

If you think that's good content for the FGC to grow or to inspire conversation or whatever around the game, you're big tripping. And being told "yes, I have to make content to criticize it," you're fucking braindead. I can feed people shit and expect them to be happy, as long as they aren't chefs. Just be so fucking for real.

If you want to see how a real fighting game community looks, look at Street Fighter YT channels. Or Tekken.

Also, @M2Dave You're from the group of players that got me into the FGC, I don't want to come across rude to you, but all the channels you name are just the sets. Just matches. We need people that lead the community conversation, and right now the leaders just ask for nerfs buffs changes etc and bitch.

Who is teaching MK players what a shimmy is? Or training drills to get out of oki and setups? Or telling people what to expect at the ranks of KL? Who is telling people where and how to find their locals? Who is telling people how to engage with the FGC outside of trying to teabag folks on stream?

No one. And that, in my estimation, is why competitive MK is dying.

 

[Vulgar]

View attachment 22334View attachment 22335

Yall who claimed K&M are doing it right on YT, here's what they've put out for the last 4 months. 2 character guides, the Cyrax one I had to stop watching because Mustard says several times during the guide that he hasn't actually labbed the shit he's talking about and he'll probably do another guide once he learns the character, lol, the rest is ranked sets or the bullshit I was making fun of.

If you think that's good content for the FGC to grow or to inspire conversation or whatever around the game, you're big tripping. And being told "yes, I have to make content to criticize it," you're fucking braindead. I can feed people shit and expect them to be happy, as long as they aren't chefs. Just be so fucking for real.

If you want to see how a real fighting game community looks, look at Street Fighter YT channels. Or Tekken.

Also, @M2Dave You're from the group of players that got me into the FGC, I don't want to come across rude to you, but all the channels you name are just the sets. Just matches. We need people that lead the community conversation, and right now the leaders just ask for nerfs buffs changes etc and bitch.

Who is teaching MK players what a shimmy is? Or training drills to get out of oki and setups? Or telling people what to expect at the ranks of KL? Who is telling people where and how to find their locals? Who is telling people how to engage with the FGC outside of trying to teabag folks on stream?

No one. And that, in my estimation, is why competitive MK is dying.

Character guides, ranked sets, going into what Kameos pro players are using for Ghostface, A Liu Kang retrospective that talks about high-level Liu Kang across all modern NRS games.

"There's no FGC content."

You're dense as FUUUCK.

As a content creator, you do need to put out other stuff that boosts your channel in the algorithm so naturally there's going to be some fluff in there.

You might want to do more than click one button when looking at a player's channel. Or try and do it yourself(you won't).

Also, Rewind recently put out a video on one of his other channels talking about what to expect at each level of KL, what you should do to advance in KL, etc.

And he's also put out an Ermac guide.

This is the part where ImposterOak "threatens" us all with logging out because his Charmin soft emotions can't handle people aggressively disagreeing with him.

Honestly, probably took him days to come up with making a half-assed post with a half-assed screenshot to justify being a petty bitch toward two people that have contributed more to offline MK than he ever will.

 

[superbn0va]

Still not as dumb as your Kung Lao buffs in the other thread.

Because Kung Lao is S tier. Is not meter depended to do something, has incredible mids, great special moves, and has plenty of kameos to work with…

Only reason for some of y’all saying KL is good is bc of his Sektor Kameo. That cheap X-ray doesn’t define KL

 

[Vulgar]

Because Kung Lao is S tier. Does not need meter to do damage, has incredible mids, great special moves, and has plenty of kameos to work with…

Only reason for some of y’all saying KL is good is bc of his Sektor Kameo lmao that stupid X-ray doesn’t define KL

You know, you don't disprove being called dumb by posting more dumb shit.

 

[superbn0va]

Lmao somebody in here is really in need of my attention huh xD

 

[Vulgar]

Lmao somebody in here is really in need of my attention huh xD

Yes, Daddy. Mwah!

 

[M2Dave]

So the problem is that a lot of content creators and players think that - when a bug or issue is found - that it can be fixed with all the ease of flipping a light switch.

Fact is, any unforseen glitches found take time to fix. Time to code, time to test across platforms, hell just getting permission to do the work from the people holding the purse strings.

Point is - when people say to wait or be patient - it's because usually fixing bugs and glitches and yes, even character balance takes time. So yeah Crimson moving on the side of chilling tf out makes perfect sense.

Of course people don’t like to be told how to behave (in general), but definitely don’t like to be told to “just be patient”. But I believe that there’s multiple things at play there.

Firstly, most people are impatient. They want what they want and they want it now. Part of the issue is how the world works these days, there’s so much accessibility to everything and obtaining instant gratification has pretty much become the norm. So there’s that aspect of it, then there’s the ignorance aspect. Where not only are they impatient, they have no clue how any of the behind the scenes things work. From coding, politics, getting approval, budget concerns, time investment, and many more things and things that I’m unaware of myself. Because I’m not going to pretend like I know what all goes into releasing an update. Whether it’s a hotfix, a small update just addressing bugs, or a large one addressing everything (from bugs to balancing). But from what I DO know, even the small updates take a lot of time. Also, there’s sometimes unforeseen circumstances that happen that delay productivity or just the release in general.

All that said, I do think NRS could be more transparent and communicate with the community faar more than they do. I think not knowing and being left in the dark contributes to people being impatient. And I feel like that is completely warranted. But people tend to take it too far a lot of the time, imho

I do not disagree with either one of you.

The point of my previous post was not to elicit a philosophical conversation about patience, or the lack thereof.

The point of my previous post was to indicate that Crimson has almost exclusively blamed the community for everything while rarely criticizing WB and/or NRS..

Even when he does criticize, the criticism is ultra mild.

Besides, what did you expect content creators to do upon Mortal Kombat 1's release? Praise the game? Tell them that their 120 dollars were well-spent? Lie to them about the game's monotonous meta? Of course, people were going to be angry, and the abundant negativity on social media, particularly early in the game's lifespan, was a reflection of that anger.

A year and half later, the game has been drastically improved, and I created this thread to acknowledge that fact.

I have also called out the obsolete and lazy criticism that certain content creators continue pointing out.

You dislike the kameo system? OK. I get it, but NRS is not removing kameos from the game just like Capcom and Namco are not removing the drive and heat system from Street Fighter 6 and Tekken 8, respectively. Go find something else to do in your leisure.

 

[Juggs]

I do not disagree with either one of you.

The point of my previous post was not to elicit a philosophical conversation about patience, or the lack thereof.

The point of my previous post was to indicate that Crimson has almost exclusively blamed the community for everything while rarely criticizing WB and/or NRS..

Even when he does criticize, the criticism is ultra mild.

To be fair, this applies to more than just Crim Crumb. But I get what you’re saying.