Match Footage - Marksman GunShow (Marksman Erron Black) vs Pig of The Hut (Kenjutsu Kenshi)

[Dope Dojo]

Do you have any time on Sunday evening?

 

[ienjoywinning]

I haven't seen the entire set yet but is there any reason you're using 11b3 and not 21122 after the gun cancel?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Am I correct in saying I can d1 during gun xx if he goes into standing 1 or standing 2 after a gun xx ?

 

[InFlames]

Am I correct in saying I can d1 during gun xx if he goes into standing 1 or standing 2 after a gun xx ?

yes

 

[xGunShow]

I haven't seen the entire set yet but is there any reason you're using 11b3 and not 21122 after the gun cancel?

The link is slightly easier. Anything helps online

 

[LEGEND]

Am I correct in saying I can d1 during gun xx if he goes into standing 1 or standing 2 after a gun xx ?

yes

Well if you can D1 doesn't that mean you could S1 instead and get a combo if they press buttons?

Heh

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

yes

Things like this I need to do better

I already have figured out how to handle post blocked df1

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Well if you can D1 doesn't that mean you could S1 instead and get a combo if they press buttons?

Heh

I was thinking not because d1 goes under s1 and s2 because they're high

 

[Bomborge]

Marksman isn't even Erron's most underrated variation. Its talked about in the Erron Black forums about as much as Outlaw is. That would probably go to Gunslinger.

Gunslinger is only even decent because Erron Black has great tools in general though. Its not underrated so much as underutilized. The only reasons to even use it over the other 2 variations is the hat or simply cause you like it more.

 

[Groove Heaven]

@xGunShow yoooooo your execution is godly. I gotta do more gun cancels into d1~sand trap.

Do you play on pad or stick?

 

[xGunShow]

@xGunShow yoooooo your execution is godly.

Do you play on pad or stick?

pad

 

[LEGEND]

I was thinking not because d1 goes under s1 and s2 because they're high

Ah I see what you're saying. Nvm then

Just trying to get people to counter poke with strings and duck n punish throws as much as possible. The fact that I never see people capitalizing on those reads is my biggest pet peeve

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Ah I see what you're saying. Nvm then

Just trying to get people to counter poke with strings and duck n punish throws as much as possible. The fact that I never see people capitalizing on those reads is my biggest pet peeve

You're right standing 1 is better and I'll definitely try to use that

 

[InFlames]

Well if you can D1 doesn't that mean you could S1 instead and get a combo if they press buttons?

Heh

off his overhead you can basically do anything thats less than 12f

 

[xInfra Deadx]

F13 is slightly more negative since Reps EX Slide can punish

Aw damnit

 

[Hell's Mascot]

Yea I really need to use ex db4 for aa


Max range df1 I found can't be punished I was just poorly spacing it on runs. I've been using standjng 1 more and more on OKi to bait a Wakeup because it fast recovers and allows me to block and punish . I need to use 111 push, thats a good idea


Does marksman have any holes in strings? I know I can interrupt d1 CG and 211 CG and anytime he goes Into the rifle swing


Thx

The string that seemed to be killing you was 21122, which you are certainly familiar with. The string is so versatile and really is the hardest thing to deal with about Erron Black: it allows him to advance, continue pressure, bait attacks into special and tick throw cancels, etc. It's especially hard for Kenshi because the string eats up so much space and comes out so fast, and space is essential for Kenshi. His backdash is also bad - the limited options for responding often necessitate a read on 21122. At the appropriate distance, Kenshi has something to deal with the 21122 on reaction in every variation. However, any distance about three character lengths or less and it becomes problematic. You definitely know all this.


What you were doing with jump-back attacks was sometimes effective, although landing a jump-back 1 is very tight spacing without getting caught by the 21122. If you have the spacing and timing to hit the aerial 1 then you have the spacing and timing to NJP or NJK them out of it. Another thing you can do if an Erron Black player has you in close quarters and you know he will mash out 21122 is to neutral duck. The first hit of the string is a high and there's actually quite a gap after it for you to do any number of attacks from a crouching position.

 

[Hell's Mascot]

Continuing...

Much of Erron's strings are unsafe on block, and that's one reason the Marksman gun cancels are so strong - they make a fairly safe link to just about anything. However, it's rare that a gun cancel will be frame-perfect, so the frame data people may tell you don't necessarily hold; every gun cancel can be poked out of much of the time. The only one I'd respect 100% of the time is standing 4xxGC but the utility of that move is limited.

When at midscreen, try poking out of gun cancels with crouching normals or 111. That will beat every gun cancel if timed correctly (the crouching normals especially because Erron most often goes to a standing string afterward). All of Kenshi's Kenjutsu specials beat the most frequently used gun cancels from the advancing strings (211, F12, F13) because after those, Kenshi can come out of blockstun and connect a hit before Erron's next string starts (though it depends on the startup of the next string).

You can easily knock Erron out of a Rifle Swing ender, but a Rifle Swing after a blocked string is usually used as a baited punish tactic. I'd be more worried about blocking low after Erron's strings due to EX Sand Grenade, EX Sand Slide, and gun cancels into B33/B32/11B3xxEXBF3.

Erron cannot okizeme you after a throw, so if he throws you, a wakeup attack like BF3 is safe from the knockdown distance. If Erron throws you in the corner without MB reset you can definitely armored wakeup safely.

All in all, Marksman is still a very difficult matchup for Kenshi.

 

[Dope Dojo]

@Pig Of The Hut 7pm eastern Sunday?

 

[lil freshie11]

@xGunShow why do you use ex sand grenade instead of rifle swing when you've already hit confirmed a string, like the 11b3exsg instead of rifle swing?

I also noticed u very rarely use the b3 low combo starter, is that just so the opponent always blocks high and respects the 21122 string?

 

[xGunShow]

@xGunShow why do you use ex sand grenade instead of rifle swing when you've already hit confirmed a string, like the 11b3exsg instead of rifle swing?

I also noticed u very rarely use the b3 low combo starter, is that just so the opponent always blocks high and respects the 21122 string?

Normally I don't hit confirm with 11b3exsg but I do it a lot online for some reason lol. Also, the low isn't too far reaching so I try not to do it mid screen often. It's best to do it in the corner imo.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

@Pig Of The Hut 7pm eastern Sunday?

for?

 

[Dope Dojo]

To play a set. First to 10?

 

[Youphemism]

@Pig Of The Hut -a-rino, Marksmans DB1 (the three retreating shots) are highs so you can just neutral duck those. I noticed you were blocking them and Erron's 112 string is punishable on block too, you didn't seem to be punishing it at all. Also you don't seem to tech roll much, is that on purpose?

 

[Deadly Torcher]

Awesome Erron, I never even knew he had a variation with GC, I'll be trying this out.

 

[Lokheit]

My favorite variations for 2 of my favorites played at an ultra awesome level. This. Is. Good!!

Got to say my Marksman is much worse than my Kenjutsu right now, I can't figure out what to do with my fingers to consistently make run cancels without dropping combos or falling into unsafe territory. A-List Johnny is the only one I can easily get them and he is specifically designed to be super plus on those situations.

I was surprised during the first fights Pig wasn't mixing B3 with the overhead special for ultra fast low/overheads, you can see in the video when he uses it the results tend to be really good. I know the OH special is safe from long distance, but still a couple of run ins to B3->OH mixed with throws would've helped a lot IMHO to keep him on guard. Still awesome Kenshi, as always.