Gun Reform?

[Flagg]

The Green Machine, sorry about the derailing, im off to bed now anyways. Been a pleasure, lets be thankful that in a thread about guns, things like Heavy Bolters haven't been invented yet.

 

[TheSpore]

The Green Machine, sorry about the derailing, im off to bed now anyways. Been a pleasure, lets be thankful that in a thread about guns, things like Heavy Bolters haven't been invented yet.

I can second that, or PLasma Cannons...

BTW Green Machine your question about COH2, I think it is still in development and will be out soon here is a somewhat recent link that was published after the Ch. 11 was filed, http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/best-games-2013-company-heroes-2

 

[rev0lver]

Omg. A teacher from the high school i went to posted this:


I facepalmed. He hasn't replied to my dispute. I'm glad we're all better than this in our community.

I like when people selectively pick out information like this. Especially when it's half true in the first place. Look at Timothy mcveigh haha

 

[TheSpore]

I like when people selectively pick out information like this. Especially when it's half true in the first place. Look at Timothy mcveigh haha

Main reason the media sux today.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

Our media is shit across the board. That's why we have so many "conspiracy theorists" popping up. People are moving more toward alternative media.

Lbsh, MSNBC does the exact same thing that FOX does (maybe not to the same extent). I like to watch both figuring if I know both extremes I can separate the bull shit from the facts. It's a sad day when the least biased source of news comes from 'The Daily Show' on Comedy Central.

Disclaimer: I'm a democrat and I constantly make fun of FOX's stories, i'm biased and ignorant.

 

[Zyos]

Ban Guns? Sounds great let's get that rolling then ban Drugs!

at the end of the day you'll still get your hands on it.

btw i don't know if anyones said this yet but i've got a stunning idea why not hold the PEOPLE responsible for their mistakes not the means of it. The gun can't keep it's safety on.

 

[REDRUM]

 

[Zoidberg747]

Lbsh, MSNBC does the exact same thing that FOX does (maybe not to the same extent). I like to watch both figuring if I know both extremes I can separate the bull shit from the facts. It's a sad day when the least biased source of news comes from 'The Daily Show' on Comedy Central.

Disclaimer: I'm a democrat and I constantly make fun of FOX's stories, i'm biased and ignorant.

I dont ever pay attention to MSNBC either, cause it is biased. Even the daily show is still a satirical show, but when its being serious it is right SOME of the time.

I dont trust news networks in general though, I always look up things myself.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Had you had been armed, you could've shot him first. You don't know me either. I never said there should be absolutely no restrictions on guns just stop taking away guns from people who are responsible and don't let the rotten shits of society fuck everyone else over

Had neither of them been armed (at least with guns) it could have been totally different.
If people REALLY wanted to look after themselves, they would learn to fight, train and take steroids, its not practical to have a gun on you at all times, which is pretty much what you'd have to do, which is living in fear.

 

[totheark]

I always wondered why citizens are given the right to own a lethal firearm.

Wasn't it the original intention of the 2nd amendment to give citizens a way to defend themselves?
Wouldn't a tazer be a better fit in our day of age?
Seems like it would protect you just fine without the death of another person.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I always wondered why citizens are given the right to own a lethal firearm.

Wasn't it the original intention of the 2nd amendment to give citizens a way to defend themselves?
Wouldn't a tazer be a better fit in our day of age?
Seems like it would protect you just fine without the death of another person.

Good point.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I always wondered why citizens are given the right to own a lethal firearm.

Wasn't it the original intention of the 2nd amendment to give citizens a way to defend themselves?
Wouldn't a tazer be a better fit in our day of age?
Seems like it would protect you just fine without the death of another person.

Unless your defending against a gun lol

but good point

 

[The Green Machine]

Lbsh, MSNBC does the exact same thing that FOX does (maybe not to the same extent). I like to watch both figuring if I know both extremes I can separate the bull shit from the facts. It's a sad day when the least biased source of news comes from 'The Daily Show' on Comedy Central.

Disclaimer: I'm a democrat and I constantly make fun of FOX's stories, i'm biased and ignorant.

We need a nonprofit non-partisan national media outlet.

 

[nwo]

Lbsh, MSNBC does the exact same thing that FOX does (maybe not to the same extent). I like to watch both figuring if I know both extremes I can separate the bull shit from the facts. It's a sad day when the least biased source of news comes from 'The Daily Show' on Comedy Central.

Disclaimer: I'm a democrat and I constantly make fun of FOX's stories, i'm biased and ignorant.

Yeah, I agree mostly with what you said, but Jon Stewart has also fallen off a long time ago. He just recently claimed (on his show) that the US has 30,000 gun murders per year. It's really about 1/3 of that, 12,000 or less, mostly gang related. His real name isn't even Jon Stewart, but yeah, he still might be better than Fox News or MSNBC for "real" news.

 

[EMPEROR_THEO]

I would just like to chip in my two cents and am overall open-minded and civil about this issue. I don't wish to have any heated debate with anyone.

-Aforementioned posts on how it'd be difficult for the "nerdy white kid" to acquire guns from the black market had firearms been illegal is a valid point and probably would have prevented the shooting (I don't know what connections that person may have had in acquiring his weapons). But looking at this issue as a whole, making firearms against the law wont make America a utopia (or even at a comfortably low murder rate), because criminals don't follow laws. Drug busts are still pertinent as would firearm busts be.

-I apologize for my lack of factual research but I feel its safe to say murder rates are not at a solid low in America. Banishing guns most likely wont completely obliterate that dubious accolade we present to the world. Say a robber armed with a gun comes to someone's house and isn't afraid at all to hurt the family even after stealing their valuables and at this time, guns are banned in every which way. The robber murders the mother and two children (forgive me for this dark example) of a family and hypothetically, the father turns out alive but injured. The father will complain that had he access to firearms, he would've prevented this incident from happening to the best of his abilities. You guys don't know if the robber's mindset is that if a family complies with his demands, he would let every single one of them turn out alive. Crazy comes in many, many forms. I understand this is a situational scenario, but residents of America will have these kind of complaints in every shape and form (especially victims of such crimes) if guns are banished. Then this issue is going to be an endless circle.

-I do wholeheartedly agree that if the acquiring of guns isn't as strict as people have mentioned here, it should be tightened. But I disagree that American's should be left defenseless as a whole. We should have the right to our protection if we can prove we're responsible individuals to use weapons (hence my advocacy of tightening acquiring of weapons and absolutely not banning them as a whole).

 

[TakeAChance]

I dont ever pay attention to MSNBC either, cause it is biased. Even the daily show is still a satirical show, but when its being serious it is right SOME of the time.

I dont trust news networks in general though, I always look up things myself.

MSNBC is trying to be the democratic news compared to the embarassment that is the Republican Fox News.

 

[TheSpore]

I would just like to chip in my two cents and am overall open-minded and civil about this issue. I don't wish to have any heated debate with anyone.

-Aforementioned posts on how it'd be difficult for the "nerdy white kid" to acquire guns from the black market had firearms been illegal is a valid point and probably would have prevented the shooting (I don't know what connections that person may have had in acquiring his weapons). But looking at this issue as a whole, making firearms against the law wont make America a utopia (or even at a comfortably low murder rate), because criminals don't follow laws. Drug busts are still pertinent as would firearm busts be.

You are correct on that factor, making something illegal also tends to make people want it more and they will aquire it in any means possible, this is partially why an all gun ban wouldn't work, not to mention all of those who are living in fear will try to revolt against such a thing. Also we cannot allow this amendmant to be taken from us, because if we were to allow the Constitution to be violated and altered to such a degree what is to say that our government will not stop there. They have already tried to censor the internet with SOPA, which largely would have given the entertainment industry the ability to sue almost anyone on sites like You Tube. This will also open the doorway for our government to even take away say free speech. If such a freedom is taken then we could see things such as our favorite game MK being taken away form us due to censorship, or perhaps we could see the freedom of religion being stripped from us as well, essentially we could become like some other governments that allow the church to govern there laws, which if anyone has been paying any attention to many of the bible belts in this country, they ther are some(WBC) propose the killing of all the homosexuals and say that a woman being raped is that woman's fault ( kind of like what we see in some other countries.) I am not saying all religious pepople are like this BTW, but our Constitution was written from the perspective of having the church separated from the government.

-I do wholeheartedly agree that if the acquiring of guns isn't as strict as people have mentioned here, it should be tightened. But I disagree that American's should be left defenseless as a whole. We should have the right to our protection if we can prove we're responsible individuals to use weapons (hence my advocacy of tightening acquiring of weapons and absolutely not banning them as a whole).

We shouldn't be left out on being able to defend ourselves, but we should be taking steps in keeping weapons out of the worng hands. This is why there needs to be stricter backround checks, the medical history of an individual needs to be known, we need to know if this person has ever been diagnosed with an unstable mental illness, or if they have ever had to be committed even. If it were up to me it would be a background check similar to what a gov. employee or service member has to go through to obtain a security clearance. All weapons sold legally in this country must be tracked and recorded in a national database that is not open to the public, it should not be open publicly, because then any criminal with the ability to access a computer would then be able to target their next vicitm much easier. Finally State, Federal, and Local law enforcement agencies need to share information between each other to start closing loopholes in purchasing weapons and regulate the second hand sales of weapons. On a final note education needs to be given to prospecting owners to ensure they understand how to safely and properly handle the use of a weapon.

Unfortunately a large amount of what needs to be done will not come to pass, one reason is that the NRA makes money when guns are sold and the NRA gives money to the government, without the NRA's support then the government loses money. In the end its all about the money, and in this country the true leaders are the corporations.

(if anyone is offended by what is said then I apologize)

 

[NapoleonComplex]

Last post for me on this topic: I just want to say sorry to Flagg, Treadmil, and STB for making dick-ish, immature comments. Zoidberg from now on I will think before I type. I came here to talk about Injustice, but I see topics like this and just end making retarded-ass comments. SORRY.

 

[REDRUM]

The US Millitary spends 19.3 million dollars an hour on fake wars. How awesome is that?

 

[Goldi]

what do you guys think of non-lethal rounds? Bean bags, rock salt, rubber bullets?

Some local shops in my area dont even stock any. I feel for home defense(barring the intruder having a deadly weapon) these are ideal.

I used to work at a night club in college. And I went looking for something like this for when I had to go back to my car late at night. I settled on some bear spray and tipping a bouncer to walk me out.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure.

 

[rev0lver]

Yeah, I agree mostly with what you said, but Jon Stewart has also fallen off a long time ago. He just recently claimed (on his show) that the US has 30,000 gun murders per year. It's really about 1/3 of that, 12,000 or less, mostly gang related. His real name isn't even Jon Stewart, but yeah, he still might be better than Fox News or MSNBC for "real" news.

I think he meant gun deaths, which is about 30,000, but that includes suicides and accidental deaths. Most of them aren't gang related though. That only accounts for about 10% of the homicide statistics.

I like MSNBC, actually. Yes, the majority of their hosts are progressive liberals, but in terms of fact-checking and actual journalism they're leagues beyond Fox News. I don't like when people act like they're just the other side of the spectrum as Fox. Fox is just so far to the right that they're pulling everything their way, and it makes anything that's actually neutral look really leftist. It's like if the Westboro Baptists called the Catholics communist hippies because they didn't have enough parades for the deaths of gay people.

I would just like to chip in my two cents and am overall open-minded and civil about this issue. I don't wish to have any heated debate with anyone.

-Aforementioned posts on how it'd be difficult for the "nerdy white kid" to acquire guns from the black market had firearms been illegal is a valid point and probably would have prevented the shooting (I don't know what connections that person may have had in acquiring his weapons). But looking at this issue as a whole, making firearms against the law wont make America a utopia (or even at a comfortably low murder rate), because criminals don't follow laws. Drug busts are still pertinent as would firearm busts be.

-I apologize for my lack of factual research but I feel its safe to say murder rates are not at a solid low in America. Banishing guns most likely wont completely obliterate that dubious accolade we present to the world. Say a robber armed with a gun comes to someone's house and isn't afraid at all to hurt the family even after stealing their valuables and at this time, guns are banned in every which way. The robber murders the mother and two children (forgive me for this dark example) of a family and hypothetically, the father turns out alive but injured. The father will complain that had he access to firearms, he would've prevented this incident from happening to the best of his abilities. You guys don't know if the robber's mindset is that if a family complies with his demands, he would let every single one of them turn out alive. Crazy comes in many, many forms. I understand this is a situational scenario, but residents of America will have these kind of complaints in every shape and form (especially victims of such crimes) if guns are banished. Then this issue is going to be an endless circle.

-I do wholeheartedly agree that if the acquiring of guns isn't as strict as people have mentioned here, it should be tightened. But I disagree that American's should be left defenseless as a whole. We should have the right to our protection if we can prove we're responsible individuals to use weapons (hence my advocacy of tightening acquiring of weapons and absolutely not banning them as a whole).

1. I'm the one who stated that originally, but I agree. But my point is that the "criminals don't follow laws" is a worthless talking point for those situations and I got sick of hearing it. Lanza, Holmes, the VA Tech guy, and other mass shooters probably wouldn't be able to get these weapons if they're illegal. However, the "criminals don't follow laws" point is absolutely valid in some areas. Gun control would probably work great in suburbia, but in places where illegal weapons are common, probably not so much.

2. I get this, and guns do save lives in some circumstances, but it pisses me off when someone shoots an intruder to death and they're always hailed as a hero. Normally, the threat of a gun is enough to scare an intruder away. When someone sees an intruder and immediately blasts their head off, it saddens me actually. Most of those guys are just trying to take a TV or some jewelry. I know it depends on the circumstance, and I know citizens aren't meant to risk their lives, but imagine if cops could shoot anyone they wanted when a crime was occurring regardless of the person being armed or had intentions to hurt them.

3. Agreed

 

[Temp]

I get this, and guns do save lives in some circumstances, but it pisses me off when someone shoots an intruder to death and they're always hailed as a hero. Normally, the threat of a gun is enough to scare an intruder away. When someone sees an intruder and immediately blasts their head off, it saddens me actually. Most of those guys are just trying to take a TV or some jewelry. I know it depends on the circumstance, and I know citizens aren't meant to risk their lives, but imagine if cops could shoot anyone they wanted when a crime was occurring regardless of the person being armed or had intentions to hurt them.

I don't own a gun and probably never will, and I even agree that the act of killing an intruder shouldn't be lauded... but if you break onto someone's property and your motives aren't completely transparent, what would have you the home owner do? Killing an intruder in these circumstances is sad, but it's not unjust.

 

[rev0lver]

I don't own a gun and probably never will, and I even agree that the act of killing an intruder shouldn't be lauded... but if you break onto someone's property and your motives aren't completely transparent, what would have you the home owner do? Killing an intruder in these circumstances is sad, but it's not unjust.

No, I get it. If I had a gun and I heard someone breaking down my back door I couldn't tell you what I would do in that circumstance because it would be terrifying. But if I killed the guy and found out he was unarmed, I wouldn't feel like a hero at all.

 

[nwo]

Yeah it was very deceptive. Here's how (Stewart) got the number.

That 30,000 number stood out to me because it seemed very high. According to the FBI, in 2011, there was a total of 8,583 firearm homicides in the U.S. That may well be 8,583 gun murders too many, but it's nowhere near 30,000 (the total number of murders by all methods came to 12,664). The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) uses a different method and found about 11,000 gun-related murders in 2011 and the total number of homicides to be around 16,000 (see table 2). So How did Stewart get to 30,000? By adding the number of gun-related suicides to the number of homicides. When you add those figures in, you get up toward the 30,000 figure.

 

[rev0lver]

Yeah it was very deceptive. Here's how (Stewart) got the number.

That 30,000 number stood out to me because it seemed very high. According to the FBI, in 2011, there was a total of 8,583 firearm homicides in the U.S. That may well be 8,583 gun murders too many, but it's nowhere near 30,000 (the total number of murders by all methods came to 12,664). The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) uses a different method and found about 11,000 gun-related murders in 2011 and the total number of homicides to be around 16,000 (see table 2). So How did Stewart get to 30,000? By adding the number of gun-related suicides to the number of homicides. When you add those figures in, you get up toward the 30,000 figure.

I don't think it's fair to say it was intentionally deceptive. He could've just seen the total gun deaths statistic somewhere and forgot to account for what was included in it and look up those statistics. It's like when people compare the violent crime rate in the UK to that in the US. They include things like robberies that may or may not be violent and simple assaults (like punching someone at a bar) that wouldn't be included in the US statistics. The ones using these talking points aren't necessarily intending to mislead, they just didn't think to delve into it more.