Green Lantern General Discussion Thread

[xisvicious]

Oh and to all you Lantern players that do back 13 into close lantern bomb you can get counter hit by alot of the cast down1 especially heavily punished by Robin,Batman,Deadshot,Aquaman,Black Adam,Atrocitus the list goes on they can all do a move that is less then 8 frames that will either poke or do a combo hell aquaman pretty much gets a free down 1 into trident rush your just better off just doing back 13 at least that is for the most part safe it can be back dashed but it is not easy to do on reaction for people but back 13 into close lanterns bomb is not safe option literally black adam can down 1 into lightning Strom ,deadshot can do his forward 12 into a combo punish,he'll batman can use his uppercut into his up grapple for a full combo punish do not I repeat do not use this back 13 close lantern bomb often or at all cause people can catch on you all been warned!!!

 

[Orochi]

That Gross set is good, and he is way better than me of course, but I still don't understand why GL players are constantly leaving first round damage on the floor. There are a bunch of times where he barely breaks 100 damage and does a hugely abbreviated combo in order to go for a new combo which doesn't even land.

Probably because his damage is trash unless from a f3 or j3 which would come from a setup usually. If he had his old oa's rocket combos GL would be in a better place but maybe a bit too strong, him and wonderwoman are not as strong as the other legacy characters because of their changes imo.

I can guarantee if he had his old toolset Gross would've taken a few games from SonicFox at Combobreaker, heck air rocket would do wonders against DS zoning, instead he has to spend a meter to avoid mb rifle and stay alive lol.

Now it feels like you have to reset and reset to take a bar or have infinite meter to mb lift.

The primary to be safe is b13 close lantern bomb

-8, punishable by a lot of the cast. Give it a month people will start punishing it. Unless you MB it but then wall is better to MB on block.

I don't know if anyone else is doing this but what I've been doing when I land a raw 22 or jump in 22 I end in wall instead of 3. It leaves them standing and in a good spot to continue b13/2 pressure. If you have meter it's usually better to go for the damage but it's a solid gimmick. I'm just trying weird shit at this point honestly.

Advantage of ending in 3 is the hard knockdown and you may hit confirm, that's why a lot of players end their combos in 3 or lift. but 223 has set up potential. Ending in traited lift has the most setup potential due to hard knockdown + hit advantage.

They went overboard with the Lantern's Might nerf, I totally get nerfing it's horizontal range but why make it almost useless vertically. It's supposed to be his anti air!

When I see someone jump at me, I Lantern Might on read/anticipation but it freakin whiffs. While jumping AT ME! But it connects no problem after an ex overcharged lantern? Bruh... -__-

I dunno. Not being able to hit Lantern's might when they are literally sitting in his palm on a read is annoying. I feel like they could have nerfed the horizontal hitbox but kept it at angle instead. But that's me from perosnal gripes of watching it whiff at almost point blank range

It went from a space control move to a hit confirm combo special only. I had a mirror match where i blocked lift, tried to lift punished and it whiffed, and i got punished by lift, it's too unreliable.

 

[xisvicious]

Gl may be low on damage but he does have alot of hard knock downs that can lead to his nasty mind games

 

[SWonder916]

That Gross set is good, and he is way better than me of course, but I still don't understand why GL players are constantly leaving first round damage on the floor. There are a bunch of times where he barely breaks 100 damage and does a hugely abbreviated combo in order to go for a new combo which doesn't even land.

I think it just comes down to risk vs reward. If the 50/50 hits then do full combo and it totals to 500+. If it doesn't then most likely you still did 200 or so and are still in Trait. GL doesn't hit all that hard until we keep figuring things out. Until we have BnB's that are touching 400 damage then setups and 50/50's are pretty viable options in a lot of cases. Gross was going for the damage when it was most efficient or viable to

 

[SWonder916]

Probably because his damage is trash unless from a f3 or j3 which would come from a setup usually. If he had his old oa's rocket combos GL would be in a better place but maybe a bit too strong, him and wonderwoman are not as strong as the other legacy characters because of their changes imo.

I can guarantee if he had his old toolset Gross would've taken a few games from SonicFox at Combobreaker, heck air rocket would do wonders against DS zoning, instead he has to spend a meter to avoid mb rifle and stay alive lol

Of course Orochi(much better GL than a majority of us) chimes in right after my last post.Haha.I agree I miss the Oa Rocket combos so bad. They looked great and hit hard too. As for Air Oa Rocket I miss hitting people from that angle it was great for punishing zoners, not to mention Turbine that got us in when timed correctly and MiniGun for amazing chip damage and keeping things safe. The good ol days

Personally I'm even having trouble crossing folks up with J3 cause of it's hurtbox and the timing of his full body flip. Finding more success just dashing up for an F3 or potential B1. Does a properly timed B1 stuff more wake up attempts than we think?

P.S. - I'd like to see some more of your GL matches @Orochi

 

[Skkra]

I just did some testing, and people can try this for themselves and let me know what they think... maybe confirm my thoughts. I used the ~ from Tekken notation to indicate a cancel, as I think its easier to read than xx.

SOLID MIDSCREEN DAMAGE:
b+1,3~trait~lift, walk forward slightly 123~ex lift, b+3, 223, lift = 323 damage

NICE DAMAGE FROM A RAW B+3:
b+3, ji3, ji2, 223~ex lift, ji2, 223~lift = 404 damage

THE CORNER BLENDER
This started me with me looking for a solid, reliable corner combo from f+3 that did good damage. I came up with the following:
f+3, nj3, 123~ex lift, ji2, 223 = 407 damage

Afterwards, as far as I can tell, you get a true 50/50 with f+3/b+1,3 unless they invincible wakeup out of it. In practice mode, I was unable to d+2, d+1, noninvincible wakeup, or even backdash - both options beat a backdash because they're so meaty that the dash invincibility runs out.

If you throw out another f+3, you can do the same 407 damage loop again. If you hit the b+1,3, its way harder to hit confirm, but you can b+1,3~ex lift, ji3, 223 for 250 damage and setup into the next 50/50. I'm sure there's a way better combo off b+1,3 in the corner but I dont know a 100% reliable one yet.

Thoughts?

 

[Orochi]

Of course Orochi(much better GL than a majority of us) chimes in right after my last post.Haha.I agree I miss the Oa Rocket combos so bad. They looked great and hit hard too. As for Air Oa Rocket I miss hitting people from that angle it was great for punishing zoners, not to mention Turbine that got us in when timed correctly and MiniGun for amazing chip damage and keeping things safe. The good ol days

Personally I'm even having trouble crossing folks up with J3 cause of it's hurtbox and the timing of his full body flip. Finding more success just dashing up for an F3 or potential B1. Does a properly timed B1 stuff more wake up attempts than we think?

P.S. - I'd like to see some more of your GL matches @Orochi

I don't know about that I haven't had much time to play and optimize my GL, still need to practice a lot of MUs. I haven't seen b1 stuff many wake ups I know b13 can sometimes break b3 armor attempts. The thing is F3 and J3 gives you a lot more damage than b13 since we can't b1 rocket anymore. I find that corner carrying is very important so GL can bully in the corner. with his frame traps and mb wall spacing (kinda like a budget superman).

I haven't had the chance to play much but I'll keep playing on the War tournament and locals here, if I feel like I have a good shot at a major I'd make the trip but I feel like I'm not ready for one. I've just been working 6 days a week so hard to find the time to lab and play.

 

[Skkra]

Also, I'm not sure if I'm doing something way wrong, but I've seen many players doing these setups:

b+1,3~trait~lift, 223, forward dash, neutral jump, 3
b+1,3~EX lift, b+3, ji2, 223, forward dash, neutral jump, 3

In my testing, these are both smoke and mirrors setups. I must be doing something way wrong with my timing?... maybe someone can help me? In my testing, I could 100% just backdash out of the neutral jump on reaction every time... there was no mixup there at all.


The only real guaranteed mixup seemed to be:
b+1,3~trait~lift then dash forward (126 damage). You can f+3 afterwards and depending on your timing, its either behind them or in front. You can also mix b+1,3 or the crossup f+3. Off of the crossup f+3 I got ji3, 223~ex lift, ji2, 223 for 401 damage.

 

[SWonder916]

I just did some testing, and people can try this for themselves and let me know what they think... maybe confirm my thoughts. I used the ~ from Tekken notation to indicate a cancel, as I think its easier to read than xx.

SOLID MIDSCREEN DAMAGE:
b+1,3~trait~lift, walk forward slightly 123~ex lift, b+3, 223, lift = 323 damage

NICE DAMAGE FROM A RAW B+3:
b+3, ji3, ji2, 223~ex lift, ji2, 223~lift = 404 damage

THE CORNER BLENDER
This started me with me looking for a solid, reliable corner combo from f+3 that did good damage. I came up with the following:
f+3, nj3, 123~ex lift, ji2, 223 = 407 damage

Afterwards, as far as I can tell, you get a true 50/50 with f+3/b+1,3 unless they invincible wakeup out of it. In practice mode, I was unable to d+2, d+1, noninvincible wakeup, or even backdash - both options beat a backdash because they're so meaty that the dash invincibility runs out.

If you throw out another f+3, you can do the same 407 damage loop again. If you hit the b+1,3, its way harder to hit confirm, but you can b+1,3~ex lift, ji3, 223 for 250 damage and setup into the next 50/50. I'm sure there's a way better combo off b+1,3 in the corner but I dont know a 100% reliable one yet.

Thoughts?

NICE. Thanks for all this can't wait to give it a go in the lab later

 

[Skkra]

NICE. Thanks for all this can't wait to give it a go in the lab later

Let me know if your testing confirms my findings!

 

[Poser Paul]

Probably because his damage is trash unless from a f3 or j3 which would come from a setup usually. If he had his old oa's rocket combos GL would be in a better place but maybe a bit too strong, him and wonderwoman are not as strong as the other legacy characters because of their changes imo.

I can guarantee if he had his old toolset Gross would've taken a few games from SonicFox at Combobreaker, heck air rocket would do wonders against DS zoning, instead he has to spend a meter to avoid mb rifle and stay alive lol.

Now it feels like you have to reset and reset to take a bar or have infinite meter to mb lift.



-8, punishable by a lot of the cast. Give it a month people will start punishing it. Unless you MB it but then wall is better to MB on block.



Advantage of ending in 3 is the hard knockdown and you may hit confirm, that's why a lot of players end their combos in 3 or lift. but 223 has set up potential. Ending in traited lift has the most setup potential due to hard knockdown + hit advantage.





It went from a space control move to a hit confirm combo special only. I had a mirror match where i blocked lift, tried to lift punished and it whiffed, and i got punished by lift, it's too unreliable.

I was told mb wall is terrible to end in since it cost a meter

 

[Orochi]

I was told mb wall is terrible to end in since it cost a meter

If you don't want to use meter you have to end in b13, all his specials are punishable up close without meter. b13 close bomb is a bad habit to develop.

 

[KingHippo]

Off of the crossup f+3 I got ji3, 223~ex lift, ji2, 223 for 401 damage.

I looked at those combos, and found that (In trait) F3 (Crossup or not), F2 xx Close Overcharged Lantern, B13 xx MB Lantern's Might, J3, 223 does 422. Obviously the one you put is best for traitless, which is great to know, but I find if you do b13 xx trait xx Lantern's Might, you have just a little bit of juice left to squeeze out the combo I put above for a bit more damage.

Also, I'm not sure if I'm doing something way wrong, but I've seen many players doing these setups:

b+1,3~trait~lift, 223, forward dash, neutral jump, 3
b+1,3~EX lift, b+3, ji2, 223, forward dash, neutral jump, 3

In my testing, these are both smoke and mirrors setups. I must be doing something way wrong with my timing?... maybe someone can help me? In my testing, I could 100% just backdash out of the neutral jump on reaction every time... there was no mixup there at all.

I thought this too, wondering if perhaps all of the setups so far have been too related to IGAU and not adjusting to the larger options for the defender in I2. Since I had the day off, I figured I'd do a little investigating.

This was the best I could find that seemed to cover all bases. I chose Robin because he has a really fast rising wakeup as well as some other slightly invincible ones that move him forward. Notice how those all whiff because of the wacky way GL lifts his body during J1. Look at the inputs, too, and notice how you have to block vs. how it looks visually. If someone blocks that on their first try, I'll eat my hat.

Of course there's more than one way to wakeup, which I also looked into.

This is with short getup and using B1. Notice Robin is not able to use his 6 frame D1 as he gets counter hit pretty easily. It's not shown, but backdashing gets hit as well. F3, unfortunately, is so slow that there are a multitude of options you can do to escape. Conditioning is important!

Then there's long getup.

Notice here, F3 gets some more juice. The only ways to really make it miss are to reversal MB B3 or dash forward. Obviously you can remove one option with a meterless opponent, but forward dashing is still a problem for some characters with fast dashes. Enter...

B1 hits so fast on a long getup that you can barely see your character even begin to move before they are hit. As you can see in the video, this easily stops almost every form of movement, especially that MB B3 and forward dash that will stop F3. Again, condition and you can get your best possible option.

So there's that, a pretty comprehensive setup that is not so easy to block to begin with and provides a lot of covers for both types of delayed getup. Keep in mind this is just an option; I still think if you have the read, just walk up and go for crossup or not F3 since you get a ton of damage and great positioning on block from it. But if you want to test your opponent and see what they can do, I think this is a pretty low risk way to do it.

Another thing worth mentioning is that this was just vs. Robin, who I feel has a mixture of all the different types of wakeup options. There may very well be some wakeups that completely avoid this setup that I might have missed, so I'll leave that for you to find.

 

[Pudding&Pie]

any tips on getting jump 3 then jump 2 after raw ex lift for example, im finding it hard

 

[Cashual]

I gotta say I honestly felt my hardest matchups was Dr. Fate if I couldn't get in same with Darkseid,Deadshot as pure zoners were very hard fights almost helpless situation alot of turtling to victory if any. I did well against Harley,Poison ivy,Batman,Robin,Joker,Grodd,Swamp thing,Catwoman,Wonder Woman,Scarecrow,Blue Beetle,Bane,Brainac,Cheetah,Cyborg but could have been because he didn't spam alot of air zoning,Flash,and Captain cold. Fights that were hard but didn't feel helpless was Aquaman,Black Adam,Supergirl,Superman,Atrocitus,and Firestorm these are really hard just really comes down to spacing, good footsies, how good you zone, and wiff punishes. They are all power houses and are his more tuffer match ups besides the big 3 bad ones.Idk you guys give me your thoughts on this. Also as a side note I did not face enough Black Canary or Green Arrow to determine those fights but I assume you can out zone Canary. Green Arrow tho probably can be a challenge depending on how good his up close game is not sure.

I think Black Canary is free to Lantern. Granted I've only played one good canary, just seems like she can't do shit to get in. Mixing up lantern blasts and mb lantern blasts, lantern bombs in close, mid to catch movement and dashes and rolls, and boulders pretty much nullifies her game.

You just have to watch for her trait level 3 call, and that's all she can do. I blocked it every time except the first.

When she does corner lantern it can get ugly quick, but if you let her corner you, she earned it or you blew it.

Tentatively right now I say it's 6-4 lantern, but at times it seemed even worse for the BC.

 

[Skkra]

any tips on getting jump 3 then jump 2 after raw ex lift for example, im finding it hard

I'm not sure about raw ex lift. I only ever do it after b+3. But you want to time it so you hit the 3 AFTER you hit the apex of the jump. Hit it slightly after you're starting to come back towards the ground.

 

[Pudding&Pie]

The three Enders people should be doing are lift, 223 and boulder

What's the purpose in ending with boulder?

 

[Harlequin969]

What's the purpose in ending with boulder?

I believe it's a hkd and pushes them back in case you want distance

 

[Poser Paul]

What's the purpose in ending with boulder?

Distance and if they're not sleeping, it sets up a meaty bomb

 

[Skkra]

@KingHippo, really liked your writeup above. Thoughts on the Dr. Fate matchup?

I played an extended set with the excellent Mr. @DanCock last night, and the final score was roughly 40-10 (GGs again, you bastard =P). I had a really difficult time with the matchup. One of the most difficult things was dealing with his wakeup ankh, since it moves quickly backwards and is only -4 on block, and its difficult to jump over properly for some ungodly reason haha.

For anyone having that same issue, I did go into the lab and found the following:
b+1,3~trait~lift, move slightly forward, 123~ex lift, b+3, move slightly forward, 223 (knockdown), move slightly forward, ji3.

This is kind of a bitch, since it involves 3 tiny little walks necessary to space it correctly, plus you need to understand the timing of the ji3 so that your legs flip over the ankh, but after 15 minutes in practice I was hitting it fairly consistently, and it beats wakeup ankh every time without needing to crossup or sacrifice your b+1,3 damage. I may make a tiny video showing the timing in case anyone is struggling with it.

Additionally, another 2 ways to blow up that wakeup are:
1. Stand far enough away that the ankh won't hit you and do lift on their wakeup - you'll catch Fate.
2. Armored b+3. Lantern lunges so far forward that you'll hit him no matter what. Armored f+3 can work but you need to literally be standing so on top of them that I do not recommend bothering with it. Afterwards you can do the full b+3, ji3, ji2 combo that I discussed a few posts ago.

 

[Skkra]

So does anyone have any actual advice for this matchup? I found it exceedingly difficult. In the games I won, I always did it one of two ways.
1. Get some early pressure before Fate could get a lot of meter, and take a big life lead. At this point I was happy to trade EX boulder or EX lantern with Fate's shots from full screen because eventually I would win the attrition war.
2. Push Fate into the corner where I could run the corner blender that I posted about a few posts back, and hurt him enough to get a healthy lead.

The fact that, unlike Deadshot, you can't duck under his shots from fullscreen means that Fate builds an insane amount of meter and, even when blocking properly, it takes me what seems like too much life to get in.

One of my biggest system complains is actually about EX Roll. This is supposed to be the way to get around zoners by spending a bar, but I feel like it doesn't let you start the EX early enough, so I found I was eating shit a lot of the time just trying to actually make the roll on an otherwise correct read. General gripe.

Anyone with notes on this matchup, I'd love to hear what you're doing, or to see any match footage of a Lantern consistently handling a (competent) Dr. Fate. Meanwhile, I'm just going to keep grinding with Dancock and hope I get things closer to 50/50 before Evo hahaha.

 

[Skkra]

Oh yeah, one last side note - the input buffer issue that has been discussed a lot recently (in threads like this one) is really affecting me lately for certain punishes or plays. Things like hitting with a d+1 then going into b+1,3 or blocking low then punishing with b+1,3 sometimes gives me Lift instead since it thinks I'm doing d,b+1. It's pretty brutal, definitely costs you games. Not sure if anyone else has been having this issue.

 

[KingHippo]

@KingHippo, really liked your writeup above. Thoughts on the Dr. Fate matchup?

Thanks, I'm glad someone read it! Haha.

I actually haven't played much against the good Doctor, buy i might be able to give some general advice.

When the game first came out, I was frustrated with GL because I saw the stage length and bevy of heavy projectile characters and felt all was lost, but I've been taking a break trying to purge my negative thoughts and found some decent new tricks, my above post being one of them.

You touched on it a bit, but Bowled Over I think may become the key to a lot of these real heavy projectile characters. The move starts up so quickly that I don't think you will find many scenarios where you can't get the thing out, and the hit adv is huge, much more so than most other projectiles. Like you said, this creates favourable trade situations.

Now with regards to the good Doctor, one other key system change that will help is neutral jump no longer being garbage. In igau, neutral jumps were brutally floaty and not particularly good. Now they've been normalized to a more MKX like state, which means hopping over fireballs is a realistic scenario. Further, Fate is no Sinestro; there's a big, jumpable gap between his mb fireballs and the first one.

What does this potentially add up to? My guess is that you can create a scenario where you are leaping over his fireballs and returning volley with a higher damaging projectile while also denying him meter build by jumping every other one (mb moves no longer give him meter).

Obviously there are more nuances: it's fates trait out, is yours, screen position etc. But I think there is a possibility that traited GL has the fastest and best hit advantage normal fireballs in the game. We may need to get used to that as it might be a bit better than we think.

That's my two cents, anyways.

 

[Alioune]

 

[KingHippo]

A video demonstration of what I meant by avoiding projectiles

Like I said before, context is important, and these are just options against an opponent literally spamming fireball with no movement, but you can see that dodging one at a certain range allows you to trade with the follow-up in your favor (unless it's Fate's Character Power fireballs).

I did not know that B1 actually went under projectiles, so you can use it to start going under Fate's fireballs a bit before you can actually duck them. Neat, and it moves you forward unlike neutral jump or Wall. Another neat thing that is unfortunately not in the video is that if he reversals an Exploding Lantern, you can B1 under him from slightly behind midscreen, which is a good way to get yourself some meter, move in, and duck his projectile. I'm positive you could still block a meter burn follow-up, but that is also probably range dependent as well.