Guide - Hellfire Fireball Cancel Frame-Data

[HuttonMD]

Here is my problem on the 214 armored reversal between the 21 and the 4 ... (as Sub Zero main)
- if I catch him with it, it would be an ex slide to put him in corner OR ex ground pound for a juggle that does around 20%
- if he baits it, and just blocks after 21 ... I am eating 30-40% into a restand for another pressure string
So the risk reward is heavily in Hellfire's favor, they could eat the reversal once then bait it out and you are losing the round after that..

+20 on a block string is simply too much to deal with

That's just a balance to his pressure scorpion has to make the read if you will armor/backdash or not and you have to do the same.

Idk if this works since I hear ex clone doesn't work properly but could you ex clone the gap and get more damage and better corner carry? If not the ice burst would be the best bet unless you want the side switch with ex slide. Once you get scorpion to the corner it's your time to shine so be patient and work him to corner

 

[Dankster Morgan]

That's just a balance to his pressure scorpion has to make the read if you will armor/backdash or not and you have to do the same.

Idk if this works since I hear ex clone doesn't work properly but could you ex clone the gap and get more damage and better corner carry? If not the ice burst would be the best bet unless you want the side switch with ex slide. Once you get scorpion to the corner it's your time to shine so be patient and work him to corner

Ex clone won't activate with scorpion in his grill like that. Iv messes with ex clone reversals. Most of the time it only works if they whiff the first hit of the string(cassie b124, if the b1 whiffs, SZ cam ex clone through the gap, but if he blocks b1, ex clone doesnt work) sometimes it doesn't work at all as a reversal.

 

[HuttonMD]

Ex clone won't activate with scorpion in his grill like that. Iv messes with ex clone reversals. Most of the time it only works if they whiff the first hit of the string(cassie b124, if the b1 whiffs, SZ cam ex clone through the gap, but if he blocks b1, ex clone doesnt work) sometimes it doesn't work at all as a reversal.

O OK that's good to know. That would be a awesome reversal if the armor came out every time

 

[HeroesNZ]

214 doesnt jail to f4 it cant even jail on a jumping opponent so its around +22~23
21 fbc is actually less plus than before since blockstun on it was reduced, its about +6
Also yup s3 is +8

Updated the OP with these numbers. I'll check the rest later.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

214 fbc doesn't jail into another 21(4)??
why do I respect it so much online vs Hellfire..
Can you please help me understand what is guaranteed for Scorp after a 214 fbc?
I also came to know you are THE Hellfire to fight in the EU region, I would like to play you some time .. what would be your id? so I can add you?
Thanks

Jinamounainai is also my id, well as said that is the mind game, also the option of getting hit by the 4 is there, sometimes it get you a way out especially midstage

 

[Endeavor]

So did anyone know that scorpion's 21 could not jail into another two. The opponent can d1/d4 out at that point. Finishing the string is bad because people you do it someone who's trained themselves to look at the animation will just know and they'll the armor .

 

[HellRider]

So did anyone know that scorpion's 21 could not jail into another two. The opponent can d1/d4 out at that point. Finishing the string is bad because people you do it someone who's trained themselves to look at the animation will just know and they'll the armor .

That has been know since the XL patch, Scorp already has tools to deal with armor and backdash, so it becomes a mindgame of respecting the string or not. You can stagger with 21 and 11.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Just to clear the fundamentals:
21~FBRC~21 has gap, doesn't it?
It is +6 on block but armourable and pokable (2 is 9F high and 6-7F poke can low profile it)?

All FBRC have the gap, don't it?
214~FBRC~214 has gap after 21 and after 214 but it is so plus so only the between 21-4 is relevant,isn't?

 

[HellRider]

Just to clear the fundamentals:
21~FBRC~21 has gap, doesn't it?
It is +6 on block but armourable and pokable (2 is 9F high and 6-7F poke can low profile it)?

All FBRC have the gap, don't it?
214~FBRC~214 has gap after 21 and after 214 but it is so plus so only the between 21-4 is relevant,isn't?

214 only has a gap between the 1 and the 4, I do believe that afterwardd, it jails into another 214 or whatever

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

Ok lets do it
Blockstring list:
21_4 jails into everything except f4, even giving you a 50/50 option with f2/b3
S4 jails into everything except f2 and slower(around +15)
123 jails into s3
F3 jails into s3

 

[Invincible Salads]

lets not forget s4 fb cancel...it guarantees a standing 2.


nvm, someone already said that.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Okay so FBRC as a "tool" does not contain gap just it is needed to watch the block advantage (and the block strings can be created like you said above).

That confirmation I needed to be confident and more conscious for using FBRC.

Thank you!

 

[Roko1985]

Jinamounainai is also my id, well as said that is the mind game, also the option of getting hit by the 4 is there, sometimes it get you a way out especially midstage

Man, do you have the exact FBC frame data ? I am making a frame data guide for Hellfire.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

Man, do you have the exact FBC frame data ? I am making a frame data guide for Hellfire.

Not at the ps4 atm but on top of my head
214 about +22
S4 +15
21 +5
123 +9
F3 +9
S3 +8
B3 +3~+5 (depending on the range it was blocked)
B12 +4? (Hv to check this if its +3 actually)
Also b1 around +6 ill test that as well how much exactly
Did i forget any?

 

[Roko1985]

Aw

Not at the ps4 atm but on top of my head
214 about +22
S4 +15
21 +5
123 +9
F3 +9
S3 +8
B3 +3~+5 (depending on the range it was blocked)
B12 +4? (Hv to check this if its +3 actually)
Also b1 around +6 ill test that as well how much exactly
Did i forget any?

Awesome man! Thanks a lot.

 

[Invincible Salads]

im gonna have to start doign 123fbc into standing 3 o:

 

[Roko1985]

This is great inform

Not at the ps4 atm but on top of my head
214 about +22
S4 +15
21 +5
123 +9
F3 +9
S3 +8
B3 +3~+5 (depending on the range it was blocked)
B12 +4? (Hv to check this if its +3 actually)
Also b1 around +6 ill test that as well how much exactly
Did i forget any?

This is great information. I am working on a frame data guide for HQT Predator and I need to test his Plasma cancels frame data and I was wondering if you could help. Your execution will make it more acurate. It wiould be very kind of you.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

I think you are gonna need a pred main for that, it takes time to adjust to new timings etc, dont wanna mess it up

 

[Niggins PHD]

This is some tight info. Thanks a whole lot.

@Every Hellfire player

And thanks for the tag fam

 

[EMPEROR__SHONUFF]

Well boys after patch we can still jail.

 

[3PiecesOfBread]

Well boys after patch we can still jail.

Other than the armor nerf on teleport I'm not really having to play Hellfire any differently at all.

 

[EMPEROR__SHONUFF]

Other than the armor nerf on teleport I'm not really having to play Hellfire any differently at all.

Yea same here. Just ending pressure earlier and getting use to the frames to cancel on. Other than that he's fine.

 

[3PiecesOfBread]

Yea same here. Just ending pressure earlier and getting use to the frames to cancel on. Other than that he's fine.

What are you doing to end pressure early? I'm literally doing nothing different so far and nothing feels any different that I've noticed. Not sure if there's something I'm missing here.

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

i wish his back 1 was a f1 hard to do off cancels we gotta strt doing 123 into b121

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

i think 214 rc still plus 5 guys

edit its +3