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Guide - Hellfire Fireball Cancel Frame-Data

ESP-_BLACK

ESP-_BLACK

best proclaimed hellfire scorpion
dont know if yall know this or not but scorpion can combo off b12 with stand 2... its news to me
 
21122

21122

Noob
Trying to learn Scorpion for the Beta since there is no Erron/Tremor

Is 21 FBC guaranteed? I would test myself but I am new to scorpion and dont even know if I am FBC correctly haha. I heard 214 has a gap now so do you guys only do 214 FBC when the opponent has no meter?
 
JINAMOUNAINAI

JINAMOUNAINAI

He who is on fire is not troubled by the smoke
214 has a gap yes, so basically the mind game is 21 fbc block/jump to bait armor, 21 ex spear to catch backdash, 214 fbc 21/f2/b3 since they jail if opponent decides to block
 
NoobHunter420

NoobHunter420

Scrub God Lord
JINAMOUNAINAI said:
214 has a gap yes, so basically the mind game is 21 fbc block/jump to bait armor, 21 ex spear to catch backdash, 214 fbc 21/f2/b3 since they jail if opponent decides to block
Click to expand...
idk but I was under the assumption that the nerf allowed you to d1 after 214.
spent like 10 games getting bodied trying to do that.
how big is the gap in 214?
can mileena do a roll?
 
JINAMOUNAINAI

JINAMOUNAINAI

He who is on fire is not troubled by the smoke
D1 after 214? Its like plus 20 :eek:
you can only armor or backdash the 21_4 gap thats about it
 
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S

Spidey32

Noob
Thought I make a video, didn't know if you guys use this method or not..but if you use 12 fbc 214 after flame aura it can be easier to connect then 21fbc 214 online since the timing is strict

 
JINAMOUNAINAI

JINAMOUNAINAI

He who is on fire is not troubled by the smoke
Yeah it was known, 1 is 9 frames 2 is 10, also wont matter for long, 2 is now 9 frames in the beta, and s3 is 7 so that would be even easier :D
 
Xzyj

Xzyj

Noob
Did anyone test new fbc block advantages after the patch? really curious about that, since a lot of frame data changed
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Xzyj said:
Did anyone test new fbc block advantages after the patch? really curious about that, since a lot of frame data changed
Click to expand...
nothing has changed other than 214 and S3, S3 is around +7/8 at best I believe and 214 not sure but it's kinda irrelevant cause it jails in F4
 
JINAMOUNAINAI

JINAMOUNAINAI

He who is on fire is not troubled by the smoke
I GOT HANDS said:
nothing has changed other than 214 and S3, S3 is around +7/8 at best I believe and 214 not sure but it's kinda irrelevant cause it jails in F4
Click to expand...
214 doesnt jail to f4 it cant even jail on a jumping opponent so its around +22~23
21 fbc is actually less plus than before since blockstun on it was reduced, its about +6
Also yup s3 is +8
 
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loogie

loogie

Noob
JINAMOUNAINAI said:
214 doesnt jail to f4 it cant even jail on a jumping opponent so its around +22~23
21 fbc is actually less plus than before since blockstun on it was reduced, its about +6
Also yup s3 is +8
Click to expand...
214 fbc doesn't jail into another 21(4)??
why do I respect it so much online vs Hellfire..
Can you please help me understand what is guaranteed for Scorp after a 214 fbc?
I also came to know you are THE Hellfire to fight in the EU region, I would like to play you some time .. what would be your id? so I can add you?
Thanks
 
H

Hor_PeT

Noob
21 xx 4 has a gap that is what you can exploit.
After 214 the fbrc gives +21-22 which is huge for jailing (F4 is slow though but eg. 21 is much faster).

So if you let 214 finish the fbrc need to be respected enough.
Other moves are less plus an armor move can challenge it though.

I did not see a good FBRC reversal video I would see one to see the weak points. Or just going to lab and trying to punish the recorded AI :).
Armoring trough 21xx4 is not easy first but thats the same for other gaps too.
 
loogie

loogie

Noob
Hor_PeT said:
21 xx 4 has a gap that is what you can exploit.
After 214 the fbrc gives +21-22 which is huge for jailing (F4 is slow though but eg. 21 is much faster).

So if you let 214 finish the fbrc need to be respected enough.
Other moves are less plus an armor move can challenge it though.

I did not see a good FBRC reversal video I would see one to see the weak points. Or just going to lab and trying to punish the recorded AI :).
Armoring trough 21xx4 is not easy first but thats the same for other gaps too.
Click to expand...
Here is my problem on the 214 armored reversal between the 21 and the 4 ... (as Sub Zero main)
- if I catch him with it, it would be an ex slide to put him in corner OR ex ground pound for a juggle that does around 20%
- if he baits it, and just blocks after 21 ... I am eating 30-40% into a restand for another pressure string
So the risk reward is heavily in Hellfire's favor, they could eat the reversal once then bait it out and you are losing the round after that..

+20 on a block string is simply too much to deal with
 
H

Hor_PeT

Noob
loogie said:
Here is my problem on the 214 armored reversal between the 21 and the 4 ... (as Sub Zero main)
- if I catch him with it, it would be an ex slide to put him in corner OR ex ground pound for a juggle that does around 20%
- if he baits it, and just blocks after 21 ... I am eating 30-40% into a restand for another pressure string
So the risk reward is heavily in Hellfire's favor, they could eat the reversal once then bait it out and you are losing the round after that..

+20 on a block string is simply too much to deal with
Click to expand...

Yes that is acceptable. Good armor characters have much better risk/reward ratio in that case.

Sub is not the worst but not the best. Good corner carry after the action can be paid of especially with GM.

Think about Scorpion. Scorpion has only 1 standing armor which leads 15% knockdown or huge minus.

I am not good at attacking the gap because I play "bad" armor characters (scorp, sub, sun-blood god) lol.
So I rather respect it and did not spend much time practicing it.

Sometimes the back dash is a safe solution for a gap but a good hellfire can punish it too if scout. But thats a mind game for high level play. :)

Respecting the 214 is not a big deal though I think. There are other pressure characters where respecting the pressure is recommended too. It depends on lot of stuff. On high level it might matter more.
 
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