I've wanted to discuss the tier list for vanilla UMK3 one more time before UMK3:TE comes out. I don't think TE is necessarily going to kill off Vanilla UMK3, because not everyone is going to be able to play on MAME or play it at tournaments. But for me, I will very rarely play anymore so wanted to discuss the tier list one last time before UMK3:TE is publicly released.
There's been a lot of tier list discussion over the years, and a lot of different lists. Here's the original one from UMK.com:
1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
3.) Kung Lao
4.) Kano
5.) Reptile
6.) Ermac
7.) Nightwolf
8.) Robot Smoke
9.) Sindel
10.) Jax
11.) Sonya
12.) Kitana
13.) Stryker
14.) Scorpion
15.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
16.) Jade
17.) Liu Kang
18.) Sektor
19.) Classic Sub-Zero
20.) Cyrax
21.) Shang Tsung
22.) Mileena
23.) Sheeva
@R.E.O. realized that this list was somewhat outdated, and a new list was in order since Glitch Jabs became such a prominent part of high level UMK3. Here's the thread and list: http://testyourmight.com/threads/new-umk3-tier-list-update-for-2012.24719/
1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
3.) Kung Lao
4.) Kitana
5.) Reptile
6.) Ermac
7.) Nightwolf
8.) Robot Smoke
9.) Kano
10.) Sindel
11.) Jax
12.) Sonya
13.) Stryker
14.) Scorpion
15.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
16.) Jade
17.) Liu Kang
18.) Sektor
19.) Classic Sub-Zero
20.) Cyrax
21.) Shang Tsung
22.) Mileena
23.) Sheeva
Now, on his, he only moved Kitana and Kano, and I think his current list may be different, just wanted to post these two for reference.
Now I want to post my tier list: *Keep in mind, this is based on UMK3 at the highest levels and taking Glitch Jabs into full account.*
God Tier (S):
1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
Top Tier (A+):
3.) Ermac
4.) Kitana
5.) Nightwolf
6.) Robot Smoke
High Tier (A):
7.) Kung Lao
8.) Jax
9.) Sonya
10.) Reptile
Mid Tier (B):
11.) Kano
12.) Sindel
13.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
14.) Scorpion
15.) Mileena
16.) Stryker
17.) Jade
18.) Sheeva
Bottom Tier (C):
19.) Sektor
20.) Liu Kang
21.) Cyrax
22.) Classic Sub-Zero
23.) Shang Tsung
I separated the tier list into 5 parts, I feel each group can compete with each other very well. So even though Shang is #23, he is arguably just as good as #19 Sektor, or at least they can compete with one another. I also believe most characters can compete with each other regardless, with only 2 characters really being far and away from the rest of the cast.
I moved Kitana and Nightwolf in the top 5. I firmly believe they are undoubtedly Top Tier. I've played some of the best Kitana's and Nightwolf's and these two characters are beasts in the current meta of UMK3. Kitana's instant air fan is comparable to Guile's sonic boom in Street Fighter. You can throw it out, recover instantly when you land, then rush down behind it. This prevents your opponent from easily stopping your rushdown. More importantly, her instant air fan (iAF) is one of the best tools against Glitch Jabs in the game. When Kitana throws an iAF against a Glitch Jabbing opponent, it forces the opponent into block stun, then she's free to rush down. Her pressure game is among the best, and the fact that most of the time her iAF gives her free pressure even against GJ's, it single handedly elevates her in the tier list in a post Glitch Jabbing world. If after she threw her iAF, it was more like Kang's iAFB, then she would definitely deserve her previous spot on the tier list. But that's not the case, she can recover nearly instantly and rush you down, forcing you to do something or just block and get pressured.
Nightwolf also has a nasty rushdown and great mix-ups. His ability to set-up multiple ambiguous throw opportunities makes him annoying to deal with and really makes him such a threat. An ambiguous throw set-up is when you land near the opponent after a knock down, and you have to guess which side to hold back in order to avoid being thrown. The way UMK3 is, you land near a fallen opponent and it's hard to tell which side either player is on until you've gotten up completely. His shoulder charge can punish so many things it's ridiculous. From whiff punishing sweeps and other moves, to block punishing a lot of moves on recovery, it's just a really good special move.
Sheeva's at the bottom of Mid Tier. I personally think she can compete with any character in the game aside from God Tier, but only in the right hands. She has a lot of weaknesses, so she can't move too far up the tier list.
Kung Lao's still a decent character in a world full of Glitch Jabbers, but he's no longer top 3 imo. He gets pushed back to #7, still in the top 10 and still Top Tier, but just not as good as the 6 in front of him. He gets punished for nearly everything he does, and there's not too much to fear other than yourself. If you make a mistake, then you can lose against Kung Lao. The problem is, you don't ever really have to make a mistake, as long as you understand the match-up and you're using Glitch Jabs, you can control the match the entire way. Keep in mind, #7 is still a solid spot on the tier list. Kung Lao is in no way a free win or chop liver, he's still strong and deadly, just not as much as he once was, imo.
Reptile moves back to #10 instead of #5. This is a good fit for him I believe. Reptile has quite a few bad match-ups, which weighs him down. His zoning isn't as powerful these days, but still one of the best zoners in the game if not THE best. But it's still too easy to get in on him with GJ's and KJ's. He can do damage and has versatility, but I just don't think he can be a top 5 character in the current meta. Sure, there's certain players who do amazing things with him, but when they face certain match-ups, from character match-ups to player, they never are able to dominate the match, and it seems to be an uphill battle from the beginning of the match.
The other changes aren't too drastic, but I can discuss them too if I need to.
What is everyone's thoughts on my tier list, and the current state of the game and your opinions of the tier list?
@tehdrewsus @mortal_jason @Shock @9.95 @dubson @ded @Konqrr @Mgo @mkholic @umk_p1 @nwo @ReallyMontana @Drakonian @necoarc12 @Dark_Rob @NoDoubt
There's been a lot of tier list discussion over the years, and a lot of different lists. Here's the original one from UMK.com:
1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
3.) Kung Lao
4.) Kano
5.) Reptile
6.) Ermac
7.) Nightwolf
8.) Robot Smoke
9.) Sindel
10.) Jax
11.) Sonya
12.) Kitana
13.) Stryker
14.) Scorpion
15.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
16.) Jade
17.) Liu Kang
18.) Sektor
19.) Classic Sub-Zero
20.) Cyrax
21.) Shang Tsung
22.) Mileena
23.) Sheeva
@R.E.O. realized that this list was somewhat outdated, and a new list was in order since Glitch Jabs became such a prominent part of high level UMK3. Here's the thread and list: http://testyourmight.com/threads/new-umk3-tier-list-update-for-2012.24719/
1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
3.) Kung Lao
4.) Kitana
5.) Reptile
6.) Ermac
7.) Nightwolf
8.) Robot Smoke
9.) Kano
10.) Sindel
11.) Jax
12.) Sonya
13.) Stryker
14.) Scorpion
15.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
16.) Jade
17.) Liu Kang
18.) Sektor
19.) Classic Sub-Zero
20.) Cyrax
21.) Shang Tsung
22.) Mileena
23.) Sheeva
Now, on his, he only moved Kitana and Kano, and I think his current list may be different, just wanted to post these two for reference.
Now I want to post my tier list: *Keep in mind, this is based on UMK3 at the highest levels and taking Glitch Jabs into full account.*
God Tier (S):
1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
Top Tier (A+):
3.) Ermac
4.) Kitana
5.) Nightwolf
6.) Robot Smoke
High Tier (A):
7.) Kung Lao
8.) Jax
9.) Sonya
10.) Reptile
Mid Tier (B):
11.) Kano
12.) Sindel
13.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
14.) Scorpion
15.) Mileena
16.) Stryker
17.) Jade
18.) Sheeva
Bottom Tier (C):
19.) Sektor
20.) Liu Kang
21.) Cyrax
22.) Classic Sub-Zero
23.) Shang Tsung
I separated the tier list into 5 parts, I feel each group can compete with each other very well. So even though Shang is #23, he is arguably just as good as #19 Sektor, or at least they can compete with one another. I also believe most characters can compete with each other regardless, with only 2 characters really being far and away from the rest of the cast.
I moved Kitana and Nightwolf in the top 5. I firmly believe they are undoubtedly Top Tier. I've played some of the best Kitana's and Nightwolf's and these two characters are beasts in the current meta of UMK3. Kitana's instant air fan is comparable to Guile's sonic boom in Street Fighter. You can throw it out, recover instantly when you land, then rush down behind it. This prevents your opponent from easily stopping your rushdown. More importantly, her instant air fan (iAF) is one of the best tools against Glitch Jabs in the game. When Kitana throws an iAF against a Glitch Jabbing opponent, it forces the opponent into block stun, then she's free to rush down. Her pressure game is among the best, and the fact that most of the time her iAF gives her free pressure even against GJ's, it single handedly elevates her in the tier list in a post Glitch Jabbing world. If after she threw her iAF, it was more like Kang's iAFB, then she would definitely deserve her previous spot on the tier list. But that's not the case, she can recover nearly instantly and rush you down, forcing you to do something or just block and get pressured.
Nightwolf also has a nasty rushdown and great mix-ups. His ability to set-up multiple ambiguous throw opportunities makes him annoying to deal with and really makes him such a threat. An ambiguous throw set-up is when you land near the opponent after a knock down, and you have to guess which side to hold back in order to avoid being thrown. The way UMK3 is, you land near a fallen opponent and it's hard to tell which side either player is on until you've gotten up completely. His shoulder charge can punish so many things it's ridiculous. From whiff punishing sweeps and other moves, to block punishing a lot of moves on recovery, it's just a really good special move.
Sheeva's at the bottom of Mid Tier. I personally think she can compete with any character in the game aside from God Tier, but only in the right hands. She has a lot of weaknesses, so she can't move too far up the tier list.
Kung Lao's still a decent character in a world full of Glitch Jabbers, but he's no longer top 3 imo. He gets pushed back to #7, still in the top 10 and still Top Tier, but just not as good as the 6 in front of him. He gets punished for nearly everything he does, and there's not too much to fear other than yourself. If you make a mistake, then you can lose against Kung Lao. The problem is, you don't ever really have to make a mistake, as long as you understand the match-up and you're using Glitch Jabs, you can control the match the entire way. Keep in mind, #7 is still a solid spot on the tier list. Kung Lao is in no way a free win or chop liver, he's still strong and deadly, just not as much as he once was, imo.
Reptile moves back to #10 instead of #5. This is a good fit for him I believe. Reptile has quite a few bad match-ups, which weighs him down. His zoning isn't as powerful these days, but still one of the best zoners in the game if not THE best. But it's still too easy to get in on him with GJ's and KJ's. He can do damage and has versatility, but I just don't think he can be a top 5 character in the current meta. Sure, there's certain players who do amazing things with him, but when they face certain match-ups, from character match-ups to player, they never are able to dominate the match, and it seems to be an uphill battle from the beginning of the match.
The other changes aren't too drastic, but I can discuss them too if I need to.
What is everyone's thoughts on my tier list, and the current state of the game and your opinions of the tier list?
@tehdrewsus @mortal_jason @Shock @9.95 @dubson @ded @Konqrr @Mgo @mkholic @umk_p1 @nwo @ReallyMontana @Drakonian @necoarc12 @Dark_Rob @NoDoubt
(Answer: because Jax's was so broken in MK2)
