"Final" UMK3 Tier List before UMK3:TE?

[dubson]

Nike and Kit and Macro definitely close the top 5 tier list

Nike not only has an insane rushdown, his cl.HK can otg characters with wheird hitboxes, has free shoulder charge hit after a throw, and has one of the best Anti-Airs in the entire game.

This character is just insane, in Angola we call him asshole because he is pretty damn solid, even against Kabal players.

Great post. Also if NWolf catches Kabal in the corner, could eat a brain-dead infinite

 

[Shock]

I'm not sure how long they have been known. I believe @Shock has said they were known for awhile, but just no one ever really used them. With UMK3 coming to XBL in 2006, once Glitch Jabs were found out by these new online players, most of us were against the GJ's at first and they were thought of as "scrubby" and the consensus was they wouldn't work as well offline. Eventually, the community realized how dominating they were to the meta, and it fractured the community and it made a lot of players flat out quit the game. I'm one of the ones who kept playing for awhile, and figured they weren't as game breaking as I originally thought, but still the dominant tactic.

DreemerNJ documented them in 2007 in a subtle post on UMK. It took about 3 more years before anyone found them on XBLA.

 

[dubson]

Oh, and to add on to Kitana, she is one of the very few characters who does not have a losing MU that is 3-7 or worse. The reason she has the edge on NW or Kung Lao overall tier placement (as an example) is because she loses to Kabal 4-6, where as NW and Kung Lao get wrecked by Kabal 3-7. She is more viable at the highest level which is another key reason for her being top five.
.

One match-up? Has to do with her overall placement? You can't do that, man. Even if it is the best character in the game… You can't base tier placement just based on how they do against top tier characters. Kitana, for example, loses to many low tier characters that give her serious problems, that Kabal or H Smoke may not (for example). This is why you can't do that, you have to make it based on overall game cast…. Also if this was the case (basing everyones placement strictly on how they did against Kabal (best character) your whole list would be different, and characters like U Sub would be higher, not because they are better against Kabal than Kitana, but because of "how well they do against the best character in the game". It doesn't work like this. Counter picking is a serious, serious deal anyway, and every character has them…. It has to do with their match-ups against the whole cast. You didn't really address how she does against characters around her tier as is, either… (Jax, Ermac, Nightwolf, Robo, Kano)

Everyone compares match-ups to Kabal, H Smoke for example but doesn't take into account how they do against Shang Tsung, Liu Kang, etc. These characters are in the game, and counter picking is a serious thing. I do not agree with some of your match-up numbers… viability at the highest level is only one piece of the pie.

 

[9.95]

Counter picking is a serious, serious deal

First thing is first... can we please stop referring to something that we all do as a hobby, in a 20yr old game that only WE play and have no shot of making any money on... as SERIOUS?

There is only one way to resolve this entire thing, that that's through an OFFLINE Vanilla UMK3 tournament. Yes, I said offline. If you don't like that I said offline, feel free to opt out of the conversation. I'm not going to re-hash 7 years worth of arguing over why this game in particular needs to be played competitively offline.

That said, we will need players like:
@Shock
@dubson
@AC1984
@R.E.O.
@Juggs
Marvirrasta
@ded
@nwo
@umk_p1
@tank u-gin
@NinjaGrinder
@MKK hanzo
@CRAZY DOMINICAN

Yes, it's like the all-star game of UMK3 that we will need. It will put to rest all of this because you guys will spend all day playing and realizing, "hey, I like these guys too much in person for it to be worth it getting into piss fests with each other over a video game on a forum"... and in the process, we will find out once and for all, which style of play is the most dominant, and, hopefully, which country is the best...not that it matters.

So yes, the time has come for this tournament to happen. So, maybe sometime after the release of MKX...perhaps at the first major that MKX is at, or possibly at one of @RapZiLLa54 events, or one at Yestercades run by @Shock ?

Yeah... this needs to happen, to finalize this stupid argument, and also to finally shake the hands of the people we've helped support throughout this game's entire lifespan.

Time to start saving the pennies, ladies!

 

[tehdrewsus]

First thing is first... can we please stop referring to something that we all do as a hobby, in a 20yr old game that only WE play and have no shot of making any money on... as SERIOUS?

There is only one way to resolve this entire thing, that that's through an OFFLINE Vanilla UMK3 tournament. Yes, I said offline. If you don't like that I said offline, feel free to opt out of the conversation. I'm not going to re-hash 7 years worth of arguing over why this game in particular needs to be played competitively offline.

That said, we will need players like:
@Shock
@dubson
@AC1984
@R.E.O.
@Juggs
Marvirrasta
@ded
@nwo
@umk_p1
@tank u-gin
@NinjaGrinder
@MKK hanzo
@CRAZY DOMINICAN

Yes, it's like the all-star game of UMK3 that we will need. It will put to rest all of this because you guys will spend all day playing and realizing, "hey, I like these guys too much in person for it to be worth it getting into piss fests with each other over a video game on a forum"... and in the process, we will find out once and for all, which style of play is the most dominant, and, hopefully, which country is the best...not that it matters.

So yes, the time has come for this tournament to happen. So, maybe sometime after the release of MKX...perhaps at the first major that MKX is at, or possibly at one of @RapZiLLa54 events, or one at Yestercades run by @Shock ?

Yeah... this needs to happen, to finalize this stupid argument, and also to finally shake the hands of the people we've helped support throughout this game's entire lifespan.

Time to start saving the pennies, ladies!

Hmm. Thanks for the mention :-/

Guys like me, @necoarc12 , @Drakonian , and @ClevelandMenace..JAX WINS i feel are new-school, but would have no problem "competing". Maybe not make grand finals, but DEFINITELY competing.

And OFFLINE is key. Online tier lists would have robo homo top 5. Lol.

 

[9.95]

Hmm. Thanks for the mention :-/

Guys like me, @necoarc12 , @Drakonian , and @ClevelandMenace..JAX WINS i feel are new-school, but would have no problem "competing". Maybe not make grand finals, but DEFINITELY competing.

And OFFLINE is key. Online tier lists would have robo homo top 5. Lol.

C'mon...seriously? I didn't leave anyone off the list on purpose. I also didn't state that the ONLY people who could compete were those that I mentioned...tournaments don't work like that...you just show up, pay your venue and tournament fee and play.

But if makes you feel better, I left myself off the list, and forgot players like @NoDoubt

Of course you'd be welcome to play if a tournament like this were to happen.

 

[9.95]

I think your taking this thread in a very different direction… nobody is pissed off at each other so lets not induce arguments or sides. Just because someone disagrees with someone on something, it doesn't mean they are "pissed off" or don't like them or anything, jeez. The fact is, 20 years old or not, UMK3 is serious to those people you mentioned. They are amongst the best in the world, because it IS serious to them…. They put the time and effort in…. for a very, very long time, and it hasn't stopped…. I myself have been playing UMK3 since the day it came out…. so saying it isn't serious to me, I would be lying to myself. It's easily one of my favorite games of all time, and still today. To many, if not all of those people. Your not going to have any of those players fighting any of the other players mentioned, and not have it be serious lol. They will be playing serious. Especially in a tournament.

Anyways, I'm not going to argue lol, simply state my opinions. This thread is about tier lists… and it is a great thread and its about time we all starting talking about it again. It is healthy…. especially with TE coming out. Many top Vanilla players will not or may not touch Vanilla again… yet with XBL and PSN, Vanilla will still live on, in conjunction with TE.

I was simply stating that counter picking is a serious deal and it was only in reference to counter picking… you took it way beyond that and it wasn't meant for anything else… My point was only that just because someone strictly picked Kabal to get to Grand Finals just to fight a Nightwolf player (example) and lose, he does not have to stay Kabal, the loser then gets to pick someone else… only one part of my point but still.

We would need players from almost every continent to join forces in one central location for this to work… plus it wouldn't resolve anything in 24 hours, you couldn't play everyone. Would be a good start, though. Great idea, but without some money on the line (maybe serious money…), it would be extremely hard.

Money isn't gonna happen for this game. It sucks, but it's true. We play the game because we love it and that's what is gonna have to suffice. But also, do you really think that if a group like that, along with @tehdrewsus and more...that the gaming would actually STOP? LOL. I'd come back to find you guys asleep, drooling on your sticks(pads, keyboards, etc)! LOL

 

[ReallyMontana]

I agree with your list. Although I think unmasked sub could be lil higher. Idk. I'm still new to umk3 lol.

 

[ded]

I'm not sure how long they have been known. I believe @Shock has said they were known for awhile, but just no one ever really used them. With UMK3 coming to XBL in 2006, once Glitch Jabs were found out by these new online players, most of us were against the GJ's at first and they were thought of as "scrubby" and the consensus was they wouldn't work as well offline. Eventually, the community realized how dominating they were to the meta, and it fractured the community and it made a lot of players flat out quit the game. I'm one of the ones who kept playing for awhile, and figured they weren't as game breaking as I originally thought, but still the dominant tactic.

it's been used, for me at least, since 2004-05, first as a double jabs, then as a single. i saw them in 2003 from @Lex'video at SRK vs cpu kitana, which was filmed in 2001 i believe, so chicago scene may know them since 90s.

you can check the video and the karajabs here:

more karajabs can be seen in lexibition from 2004 as well:

as for the blocking punches, while holding block and staying on the same position, if that are glitch jabs you are referring to, @Shock is correct - @dreemernj documented them first, but i believe MOE mentioned them before and that they knew it. The reason they were not used much at high level, is because they are pointless, looks ugly, and cannot help that much in highest level

 

[dubson]

They have been around for a long long time.

As far as people just sitting there spamming punches and basing their game around that all turtle style ("golden punching"), I would say 2008-2009 ish. I still find it a really ineffective strategy in itself (many players now base their play around it opposed to the other way around, another strategy to implement into their game) outside of cornering someone, especially a teleporter. Obviously many of the best players I have ever faced (even post 2010), didn't even use it (maybe barely or rarely), yet they were the amongst the best lol (@Shock, DC Hustle just to name a couple). So that says a lot about it and how much it impacts the tier list, in itself.

It's not as effective in MKII because projectiles do way more chip damage, one shitty part of UMK3 is that projectiles do shit for chip. Really hurts the game, especially zoners. Could have been a huge difference. Something I was actually looking for in TE…. Makes every blocking decision that much more impactful.

 

[tehdrewsus]

C'mon...seriously? I didn't leave anyone off the list on purpose. I also didn't state that the ONLY people who could compete were those that I mentioned...tournaments don't work like that...you just show up, pay your venue and tournament fee and play.

But if makes you feel better, I left myself off the list, and forgot players like @NoDoubt

Of course you'd be welcome to play if a tournament like this were to happen.

Man it would be an HONOR to play amongst you and those mentioned. I forgot how much I loved MK until I found TYM and MKAK. I never realized it got this big and has lasted so long.

I remember back when I just thought it was cool to transform into human smoke to play like a gray scorpion back in 1995. How far weve all come!!

 

[Shock]

What is needed is specialists for all characters to have a match up farm one day and calculate results.

 

[Juggs]

What is needed is specialists for all characters to have a match up farm one day and calculate results.

I got dibs on Sheeva.

 

[tehdrewsus]

What is needed is specialists for all characters to have a match up farm one day and calculate results.

I'll call U-Sub

 

[EdFig81]

C'mon...seriously? I didn't leave anyone off the list on purpose. I also didn't state that the ONLY people who could compete were those that I mentioned...tournaments don't work like that...you just show up, pay your venue and tournament fee and play.

But if makes you feel better, I left myself off the list, and forgot players like @NoDoubt

Of course you'd be welcome to play if a tournament like this were to happen.

U call the date most will show up or shut up.u know I will be there repping jax and shang! and I agree it has to happen after mkx drops. Pick the venue and what ever happens, I want your Sonya phil.#callout4fun

 

[mortal_jason]

That's because everyone still has a MK9 mindset. Even though Jax is decent in MK9. Sindel and Stryker owned in UMK3 and Trilogy.

Actually most of us that appreciate classic MK games don't care for the trash that came after MK4.
So there is no MK9 mindset.
Sindel and Stryker are mid-tier characters in UMK3.
I suppose you could say that they own bottom tier, yeah.

@dubson Golden punches are more effective in MK2 than UMK3 because there is no run.
I'm talking basic goldens, not run jabs, obviously.
But you can use them much more constructively in MK2 for baiting, protection, etc.
Look at how scorpangel makes his Jax and Liu nearly unbeatable with them.
He takes chip all day long but still wins vs everyone but the very best.
And they're even more useful in MK1, because there are less options than MK2.

 

[Drakonian]

It would most definitely be an honor to play alongside you all. I look up to a lot of you on here. most of you don't know but many of you have been inspiration for me over the years. whether it was us playing together or just watching great matches. I want to thank all of you guys for your passion for this game and keeping this kommunity alive.

@Shock
@Juggs
@OUIJA WARRIOR
@NoDoubt
@ded
@R.E.O.
@9.95
@MKK hanzo
@rzpmkkteam
@NinjaGrinder
@nwo
@mortal_jason
@necoarc12
@tehdrewsus
@ClevelandMenace..JAX WINS

 

[dubson]

@dubson Golden punches are more effective in MK2 than UMK3 because there is no run.
I'm talking basic goldens, not run jabs, obviously.
But you can use them much more constructively in MK2 for baiting, protection, etc.
Look at how scorpangel makes his Jax and Liu nearly unbeatable with them.
He takes chip all day long but still wins vs everyone but the very best.
And they're even more useful in MK1, because there are less options than MK2.

Yeah thats a reason. As well as what I said. You aint gonna be taking that many chips from Liu in MKII and win as opposed to MK3. Everything just does more damage in those games. But absolutely.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

Has there been a game where sheeva wasn't shit?

MKT

 

[mortal_jason]

MKT

No one has answered why Sheeva isn't shit in MKT, when she has all the same moves as UMK3.
Just curious.

@Drakonian I've said for years that there should be 1 town in the USA that all classic MK players live, so that we can play offline all the time.
No excuses, no lag, no problem!
Tournaments every week
Pick someplace warm please...

 

[mortal_jason]

Mileena just got good in MK9 lol.

Actually there's a little game called Mortal Kombat II.
Millions of people have played MK2, and Mileena is the strongest fighter in it.

 

[Konqrr]

No one has answered why Sheeva isn't shit in MKT, when she has all the same moves as UMK3.
Just curious.

@Drakonian I've said for years that there should be 1 town in the USA that all classic MK players live, so that we can play offline all the time.
No excuses, no lag, no problem!
Tournaments every week
Pick someplace warm please...

in MKT on N64, low attacks recovery extremely fast and actually give enough advantage to start rushdown. This gives Sheeva more opportunities for pressure and gives her a corner infinite with her c.HK after a throw or popup.

@R.E.O. would be able to elaborate further.

 

[mortal_jason]

in MKT on N64, low attacks recovery extremely fast and actually give enough advantage to start rushdown. This gives Sheeva more opportunities for pressure and gives her a corner infinite with her c.HK after a throw or popup.

@R.E.O. would be able to elaborate further.

Gotcha.
I'm not surprised... MKT for N64 plays so fast its like a version of UMK3 designed by a meth head.

 

[tehdrewsus]

Gotcha.
I'm not surprised... MKT for N64 plays so fast its like a version of UMK3 designed by a meth head.

3v3 randper kombat. White knuckles and hands shaking afterwards!

 

[tehdrewsus]

in MKT on N64, low attacks recovery extremely fast and actually give enough advantage to start rushdown. This gives Sheeva more opportunities for pressure and gives her a corner infinite with her c.HK after a throw or popup.

@R.E.O. would be able to elaborate further.

Run/glitch/kara jabbing is not as big a part of the game because of that.