General/Other - Ferra/Torr Ferra & Torr General Discussion Thread

[SplitMushroom]

I'm having a lot of fun with him. His grab reset in the corner is ridiiiiiculous and that NJP is great as well. I hate that he doesn't really have an anti-air in his Vicious variation but it is what it is.

 

[Barrogh]

I'm having a lot of fun with him. His grab reset in the corner is ridiiiiiculous and that NJP is great as well. I hate that he doesn't really have an anti-air in his Vicious variation but it is what it is.

Yes, I found that I have better success backdashing jump-ins when possible... Um, yeah.

That said, where do you people get all that tech you are talking about. It looks like there is a lot being discovered by enthusiasts, but so little makes it to TYM

 

[Asodimazze]

I still don't know who should I main as a 2nd character, if Vicious Ferra-Torr or Goro....so I'm using both!
Got to say that Ferra Torr is more fun though

 

[Forr]

Discovery (or should I say "publication"?) of new properties of PnG makes that variation look much more interesting. I wonder if it will eventually replace Vicious as to-go non-Lackey variation.

I think ruthless is the most hype, with the corner armor shenanigans. But realistically other then setups to stuff/punish wakeups, ruthless isn't that good. At the end of the day guaranteed boss toss damage / anti zoning, is better than ruthless gimmicks at the moment.

 

[SplitMushroom]

Yes, I found that I have better success backdashing jump-ins when possible... Um, yeah.

That said, where do you people get all that tech you are talking about. It looks like there is a lot being discovered by enthusiasts, but so little makes it to TYM

The reset I mentioned isn't really tech. I mean you barely use meter with the Vicious variation so if you catch the other guy with a damaging corner combo that ends in f2, you can MB grab the guy to put him in a 50/50 state back in the corner.

 

[Zaccel]

I think ruthless is the most hype, with the corner armor shenanigans. But realistically other then setups to stuff/punish wakeups, ruthless isn't that good. At the end of the day guaranteed boss toss damage / anti zoning, is better than ruthless gimmicks at the moment.

I played a long set with a friend yesterday using Ruthless (he was using Raiden, Cassie, and D'Vorah). My general thoughts:

-Having the union of Vicious' Ferra jab and Lackey's faster command grab was sometimes helpful.
-Doing P&G may have had some use in getting breakers and X-Ray faster, but since I was hurting myself that utility seemed questionable.
-After a few punishes, my friend stopped trying to wakeup against P&G and ran away instead. Not sure if that's good or bad, but a 'roided Bowl Girl caught a backdash and won me a match so hey whatever
-I think that, if a character has doo-doo butter zoning, doing P&G and threatening to trade with a projectile possibly twice as powerful as theirs could have some (excessively niche) use. Not really a replacement for Boss Toss.
-There's no arguing how hard Boss Toss hits, but if you have a stack of P&G and end a combo with Tuck 'n' Charge, the damage--while still less than Boss Toss--is decent. More importantly, it leaves the enemy quite close. You could do a small run and commit to an overhead/low, try and bait reversals, risk a P&G if you think they'll delay wakeup (or just block), whatever.
-Killing yourself with P&G is a hilarious way to bring back the Hara-Kiri.

I was generally feeling a theme of 'compromise' across Ruthless. Investing health for damage, combining bits of Vicious and Lackey's movesets, and being able to blend both damage and knockdowns for a cost. I don't think it'll replace the other variations, but I didn't think it was all bad, either.

 

[bomb]

Do any other well known players use him besides wonder chef.

 

[SEV]

If it isn't known yet, Ferra/Torr can end her block strings with Close Ferra Toss for a frame trap that leaves you pretty plus. You're only guaranteed a D1 check, but it's completely guaranteed, tested against Tempest Lao EX Spin(only a few frame gap though, so you need to input quick or you can get blown up by an armored reversal).

Midscreen, if they respect the D1, you're just a step outside of grab range, so you can go for a quick run in throw or back off and play a Ferra'less Torr for a few secs until she gets back and reestablish your neutral.

In the corner you're still only guaranteed the D1, but the Close Ferra Toss leaves you slightly closer, within throw range, so it leaves you with a mix up between the guaranteed D1 check or a throw.

From there if they're respecting the D1 you can choose to follow up with a B121 block string that will leave you neutral(block advantage from B121 is 0) and the duration of the string gives Ferra enough time to get back on Tor which gives you the option to follow up with armor, access to your 50/50s under the fear of armor, etc.

When I tested B121 in the corner after the Close Ferra Toss frame trap with the block setting to always and movement setting to jump, the string was able to jail, but it was getting blown up by Tempest Lao EX Spin when I set reversal on, so I'm not entirely sure what that means.

A good way to establish the trap in footsies is to just D4 xx Close Ferra Toss, but there is a gap between the cancel so they can armor through if they have meter.

Doesn't work too well on female characters if they're blocking low unless you're close to max range with your pokes(worked off of D1, B2 and B3). The arc of Close Ferra Toss goes over their small hitbox otherwise. Also can whiff off of a D1 cancel on males too if it's super meaty and they're blocking low.

 

[Skkra]

If it isn't known yet, Ferra/Tor can end his block strings with Close Ferra Toss for a frame trap that leaves you pretty plus. You're only guaranteed a D1 check, but it's completely guaranteed, tested against Tempest Lao EX Spin(only a few frame gap though, so you need to input quick or you can get blown up by an armored reversal).

I thought that the toss was -1 on block?... I guess that's incorrect?

 

[SEV]

I thought that the toss was -1 on block?... I guess that's incorrect?

Might have to with the fact that it's meaty or something weird regarding projectile advantage but it's definitely plus.

 

[Skkra]

Might have to with the fact that it's meaty or something weird regarding projectile advantage but it's definitely plus.

Good stuff. I'll have to hop in the lab and mess around now.

 

[Barrogh]

It would probably be 0 or -1 or whatever it says in frame data, but Ferra doesn't hit instantly upon launch thus delaying opponent's recovery from blockstun relatively to your Ferra toss recovery.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

Whats your main strategy with Lackey? There´s no guide of this variation...
I ´ve seen a GDLK D1, a niiiice Torryuken as wake up or combo ender but :
I dont know the difference of the roll and the charge:Both are unsafe and mid I think , so there are useless moves, don´t you think? Well, I hope the roll will go under proyectiles or perhaps armor with EX... thoughts? please help

 

[Jaku2011]

Whats your main strategy with Lackey? There´s no guide of this variation...
I ´ve seen a GDLK D1, a niiiice Torryuken as wake up or combo ender but :
I dont know the difference of the roll and the charge:Both are unsafe and mid I think , so there are useless moves, don´t you think? Well, I hope the roll will go under proyectiles or perhaps armor with EX... thoughts? please help

I mostly play Vicious but roll is pretty fast and doesn't the charge in Lackey get armor while he roars, maybe it's just ex I'm not sure, again I barely play Lackey.

 

[JMFitzy855]

Charge does get a hit of armor in Lackey at the start up. (Unsure of the active frames) but it will also evaporate a projectile if timed right without eating the damage.

 

[Barrogh]

Charge is slower, but gets armor, roll can go under highs in the middle of animation and is faster. Also I think it's safer if hits at the very end of animation, I think @Doombawkz said it at one point, although it was a while since then.

Also there's a lackey vortex apparently, but I don't think I've seen it described. So, either lab it or wait for EVO

 

[Doombawkz]

Charge is slower, but gets armor, roll can go under highs in the middle of animation and is faster. Also I think it's safer if hits at the very end of animation, I think @Doombawkz said it at one point, although it was a while since then.

Also there's a lackey vortex apparently, but I don't think I've seen it described. So, either lab it or wait for EVO

Get in the council, Barry. I'm talking about it in there, and trimming it up and making sure it's viable before it gets spat out here.

 

[Doombawkz]

Charge is slower, but gets armor, roll can go under highs in the middle of animation and is faster. Also I think it's safer if hits at the very end of animation, I think @Doombawkz said it at one point, although it was a while since then.

So I tested it again, and no I was right. He isn't as unsafe when he clips you with the back end of the animation.
I'll provide some video proof in a second.

 

[MK Led]

They changed it along with Ferras hitbox stuff.

Hey Bawkz, what did they change with lackey and ferra's hitbox? I haven't played/been in the know for the last 5 days or so.

(Nvm about the lackey thing you posted the answer as I was typing this )

 

[Doombawkz]

Hey Bawkz, what did they change with lackey and ferra's hitbox? I haven't played/been in the know for the last 5 days or so.

(Nvm about the lackey thing you posted the answer as I was typing this )

Basically you know LAckey roll? It used to work like Bane's f.2.d, in that if you hit it at the end of the animation you'd not be at such a disadvantage.
For Bane's f.2.d, it made it +1 on block and like +13 more on hit if you did it from the peak.
For LAckey roll, it goes from being -12 to being I think -6? You lose half of the disadvantage frames if you space it right.

As far as Ferra's hitbox goes, I think there used to be an issue where her hitbox would be counted as an extension of Torrs so for some reason she could activate interactables when you threw her with Little Kutter, but I think they got rid of it almost instantly.

 

[Doombawkz]

Here is one proofing, showing the 9 frame slide punishing it up close (where its -12) but not further back.
I'm also testing with Shinnok's Hell Blast which is a 7-frame move and it can't punish it either.

@Barrogh
There you go.

 

[Doombawkz]

Also this, because 5f reversals < properly spaced rolls.

 

[Forr]

After a little bit of testing it turns out Ferra Toss, which shows as -1 on block, is actually at least +6. At least close ferra toss off a block string. So a D1 after is a frame trap, which you can use to establish your other options.

 

[The Ultimate]

After a little bit of testing it turns out Ferra Toss, which shows as -1 on block, is actually at least +6. At least close ferra toss off a block string. So a D1 after is a frame trap, which you can use to establish your other options.

Very godlike information. Thanks for the research!

 

[Wetdoba]

Hey guys I know there hasnt been much in terms of game play for these two but here is a set between me and my roommate offline.

http://www.twitch.tv/wetdoba/v/4546819

Vicious vs Commando Kano starts at 2:01:00, Vicious vs Cybernetic starts at 2:34:30. Everything before was just random dicking around in training so feel free to ignore. Please feel free to give me any pointers, I know I need to find a better punish for Kano ball, will probably just use F2 since B1 is inconsistent with whiffing.