FEEDBACK TIME: By Wed Oct 10th I will send a video to Ed Boon's twitter

[shaowebb]

Boon wants feedback then he is going to get it. I am seeing WAY too little excitement for this game on other boards. Shoryuken, Neogaf, and Gamefaqs pretty well seem to think it looks awful and its all due to certain little mechanics or tools that are either coming across wrong or that need tweaking.

I am composing a LIST of feedback that I will breakdown in a video this Wednesday that I will post on Ed Boon's TWITTER account to try and make certain he sees it. Post your feedback here.

RULES:

• DO NOT CHARACTER BEG. This aint for that.
• IF YOU ARE AGAINST SOMETHING EXPLAIN WHY. Posts of "this is dumb" need explained. Well thought out ideas can be presented thoughtfully. Pure negativity with no supporting arguments just comes across as flaming and likely won't get us anywhere.

WHAT I WILL BRING UP SO FAR:

• THE CLASH SYSTEM (aka Wagers). This mechanic is as clear as mud to pros so theres little hope of it translating well to casuals as a tool they will understand like they had hoped it would be. I'm going to incorporate all thoughts on it and bring up the fact that it is the one of the main reasons people trash the game on other forums.
• STAGE TRANSITIONS. They kill momentum, cost meter, force you to seperate from your opponent, and only the guy on offense can do them. So far they don't have much purpose other than potentially unscaled damage at the end of combos. I want to bring up using these defensively as an alpha counter for players to use to counter corner pressure at the cost of meter.
• STAGE INTERACTIONS. I think they are fine, but this isn't just shaowebb's feedback its everyones. Post your pros and cons for these and I'll list them. I'll even mention vanilla stages or turning them on or off if you want. I'll list all your stuff here. They may ignore it because its kind of the big thing, but at least I promise you they will hear all your opinions on it.
• PUSHBLOCKING. This game doesn't have them and frame traps and blockstrings are already showing STRONG signs of being too powerful. The Flash is beasting on everyone and this game doesn't have breakers. I am going to explain frame traps and blockstrings and how corner gameplay works and push for this tool to be incorporated.
• URGING FOR IN DEPTH CHARACTER VIDEOS OF COMBOS, COMPLETE MOVE EXHIBITION AND BREAKDOWNS, QA TEAM DOING HIGHER LEVEL MATCHES

I Changed the last thing away from listing balance stuff since we haven't even seen good players or full movesets. We can't give feedback if they don't show us enough info so I will demand more so I can do ANOTHER video later just of character fan feedback later on.


This is all I got for the video for now. Let me know all your opinions and I'll add them by Wednesday. Thank you TYM for your support.

Since so many are against giving rough character impressions based on the low level play and tiny amounts of footage we have gotten so far I will instead push this fact at NRS and let them know that if they want in depth feedback on character impressions then we will need more in depth breakdowns of characters from their youtube feed to help us understand everyone first.

If there is anything on my list you feel strongly about though bring it up and if it seems universal enough I will mention it as a rough impression they are giving off right now that needs considered .

UPDATE:

Adam Urbano as well as the community director will also be receiving this video letter in addition to Ed Boon via twitter. Adam Urbano responded when I told him I was doing this and is looking forward to your feedback. GO TIME.

@Urbanjabroni Just to let you know I am compiling all kinds of feedback on Injustice for NRS from fans. Video Letter will be sent Wednesday.



Adam Urbano
@Urbanjabroni
I look forward to it.

 

[Juggs]

Nice post. I don't agree with Push Blocking though. Injustice doesn't look nearly fast paced enough, and characters don't look like they can cover enough distance in a short amount of time. Just adding push block because of Flash is a bad move.

 

[Cossner]

How can you give feedback on characters no one has ever played on a decent level?

 

[STORMS]

Excellent post, shaowebb !

 

[Rathalos]

You should send it to @Urbanjabroni

Pushblock might not be the best solution for a game like this, at least how I think the game is, very footsie based.
I also don't think Frametraps are why Flash is overpowered right now. I think it has more to do with his command run, and the fact it leads to very fast and very safe 50/50 setups. They just need to make his shit super unsafe.

 

[GrandMasterson]

I don't think Ed Boon would know what any of that means

You'd probably be better off posting it on Paulo's twitter

 

[OllyGolly]

I personally think the randomizing gimmick move is very good. Harley wins in the toss up no matter what because each randomized item has a benefit to Harley and her alone. It fits her scatterbrained nature as well. Without this move, she doesn't really have a gimmick so she really needs this. If she didn't have it, they'd have a harder time putting her in the game.

 

[Playpal]

Don't talk about the characters. No one has even gotten a chance to analyze them. This is all impressions, you're assuming the characters are broken/flawed based off watching low-level play. Give the guys doing QA like 16bit a chance (assuming he's doing QA).

 

[FrothyOmen]

• L/M/H style inputs for Cyborg's specials, none of this DF/DB/DBF crap
• Buff Tantrum Stance
• Remove random elements from Quinn's Gimmick. Fighting games should NOT have random elements, everything must be controllable.
• Give the option to choose starting fight stance for those characters that have them (i.e. Nightwing, Wonder Woman)
• Reduce meter gain speed, I saw a video recently where Superman was hit 4 times for minimal damage and built about 1/2 a bar of meter. That is ridiculous.
• Pretty up the Super flashes (activation where it zooms in on character), they're a bit lacking in cool factor right now
• SHORT cinematic between rounds... currently when the 1st player's 1st health bar is depleted combat stops and both characters return to neutral and quickly return to battle... some new players/spectators may not realize what exactly has just happened so something easily visible to all onlookers to visually break up segments of the battle would be good
• Matchup-Specific Banter: I.e. if Batman had to fight Joker(assuming he's in), they should have some special dialogue sequences that have a random chance of occurring.

 

[SatsuiYesHadou]

Imo don't change anything. This game was meant to be different from others. There's street fighter, there's marvel, there's mk and now there will be injustice to add on. Idk why but I feel that everything about it seems perfect <3 for now...

 

[Rathalos]

• L/M/H style inputs for Cyborg's specials, none of this DF/DB/DBF crap
• Buff Tantrum Stance
• Remove random elements from Quinn's Gimmick. Fighting games should NOT have random elements, everything must be controllable.
• Give the option to choose starting fight stance for those characters that have them (i.e. Nightwing, Wonder Woman)
• Reduce meter gain speed, I saw a video recently where Superman was hit 4 times for minimal damage and built about 1/2 a bar of meter. That is ridiculous.
• Pretty up the Super flashes (activation where it zooms in on character), they're a bit lacking in cool factor right now
• SHORT cinematic between rounds... currently when the 1st player's 1st health bar is depleted combat stops and both characters return to neutral and quickly return to battle... some new players/spectators may not realize what exactly has just happened so something to visually break up segments of the battle would be good
• Matchup-Specific Banter: I.e. if Batman had to fight Joker(assuming he's in), they should have some special dialogue sequences that have a random chance of occurring.

Id rather them just remove super flashes, hate them, but eh.
I like the way rounds transition right now, very fast, VS style, even a very short cinematic scene would be too much downtime IMO.
Clashes have matchup specific banter. However like special matchup specific intros like BB or older KoF games would be really fucking cool, but I doubt they would go that far :/.

Don't talk about the characters. No one has even gotten a chance to analyze them. This is all impressions, you're assuming the characters are broken/flawed based off watching low-level play. Give the guys doing QA like 16bit a chance (assuming he's doing QA).

Kinda this also, I mean don't get me wrong, if you want to go for it, speaking your mind isn't going to hurt anyone, but for character balance I'm sure there on that shit already.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Yeah, either no super flash or make them better. I personally think they're cheesy and shitty as of the most recent build of the game we have seen, but hey there's 6 more months till it comes out who knows what'll change between now and then.

Maybe it could be a happy medium. The cinematic doesn't have to take more than a few seconds, just maybe a closeup of the defeated fighter wiping some blood from their mouth and standing back up or something. Just enough to let people know "hey, some important shit just went down" then get right back into it. Hell, doesn't even have to be a zoom-in... just some sort of obvious audio/visual cue of what's just happened.

 

[Rathalos]

Yeah, either no super flash or make them better. I personally think they're cheesy and shitty as of the most recent build of the game we have seen, but hey there's 6 more months till it comes out who knows what'll change between now and then.

Maybe it could be a happy medium. The cinematic doesn't have to take more than a few seconds, just maybe a closeup of the defeated fighter wiping some blood from their mouth and standing back up or something. Just enough to let people know "hey, some important shit just went down" then get right back into it. Hell, doesn't even have to be a zoom-in... just some sort of obvious audio/visual cue of what's just happened.

There is a slight visual cue actually, when they go down, the last hit that dos it causes a weird hitspark, it looks like that one scene in the matrix where neo becomes the one and he like flexs and the world gets all bendy for a second, it does that.

 

[GrandMasterson]

I wouldn't worry about meter stuff, that stuff is in work until the day before the game ships

 

[MK_Al]

Crying for buffs and nerfs already seems a bit hysterical to me, people don't even know the character tools. The game isn't finished yet and they will balance it anyway before the final version comes out.
I understand your intention, but writing a list of "improvements" without knowing the final version is pretty much senseless. I hope this time NRS will spend more time and money on beta testing, which is much more important than a community list from guys that didn't even play the final game.

 

[FrothyOmen]

There is a slight visual cue actually, when they go down, the last hit that dos it causes a weird hitspark, it looks like that one scene in the matrix where neo becomes the one and he like flexs and the world gets all bendy for a second, it does that.

Yeah, I've noticed that too, but only after watching a looooot of videos lol. All I'm saying is that I think it should be a bit more obvious.

 

[PizzaMasta]

With the upcoming character damage, maybe they could just have a big part of the character's armor break after the first round, along with the spark, that way it's a bit more obvious.

On topic, it's a good idea to send them a list, but I think (as a couple of people mentioned) the character ''changes'' you'd like to see change are kind of unnecessary to mention, nobody even got decent playtime with this game, how can anyone judge the characters by now. I understand Flash LOOKS like he is the strongest, in this outdated build, but they probably know that.

About stage transitions, I don't see why we would complain about them, it LOOKS cool, so if you don't want to use them... don't use them? Although I do like your idea of using them in a defensive manner.

And don't necessarily mention that YOU think Wager doesn't look all that good, let's try and have a clear explanation first.

Still it's your video, do whatever you want in it.
You deserve recognition for everything you do here, my friend.

 

[Rathalos]

His "fist raised" stance is really out of character and comes across as too proud. Its getting flack on other forums and I will bring it up...AGAIN.

Well there is a chance he may be evil batman, so it might make sense in that context, but it still looks stupid.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Buffing wonder woman and Nerfing Flash?

I approve, I APPROVE of this thread.

 

[Killzone]

In my opinion Nightwing needs more agility. He is supposed to be DC greatest acrobat, yet in this game he seems to be slow as fuck. Yeah, some of his strings seem to be fast, but he walks slow, he jumps slow and he jumps only once. How can Batman have a double jump, but not Nightwing? How can Harley do crazy flips, but not Nightwing.

Seems just out of place for me, when it comes to that particular character. Nightwing should have a double jump and Batman should have just one, maybe a pretty high jump and additionally his gliding ability.

 

[shaowebb]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I'll tell you what I'll do since its a mixed bag on character stuff. I'll mention my thoughts on it as an aside AS WELL as discuss pushblocking as an aside and tell them to judge these thoughts objectively and to think for themselves if they have merit to the kind of product they want and that they are mainly judgment calls. However, listing Grundy's faults, Cyborg's inputs, and the random gimmick of Harley are things that I want to bring up just for the sake of making certain they see both sides to the argument on these points because they are pretty divisive elements. I don't really think anyone believes Grundy is viable in his current state so I'll only really bring up options on how he can work like less recovery on his seismo stomp to make it more viable, how projectile knockback effects gameplans if its on deck as a tool, how his moves are so slow it'd take armor to finish one even if he gets in, and how with slow normals he may need some sort of move to knock or pull opponents towards him...possibly swamp hands. Again though ALLLLLLLLLL of that sort of stuff will be listed as an aside and I WILL give everyone's thoughts and not just my own. I'll give the arguments for and against anything in the game.

Most of these character things are about giving both sides of the argument, but will be listed as an aside. I will list both the positive and negative views on ANYTHING in the game and try to cover everyone's opinion that is backed up by logic over personal taste. The character specific stuff I doubt they will dig too deep on except for maybe Grundy, Cyborg inputs, and maaaaaaaybe Harley over tantrum stance potential meta-game uses. Don't know if they will listen about the perception of random moves or not in fighters.

Gimmie your opinions on everyone and everything. What you feel makes them good, what their weaknesses are and the same with gameplay mechanics. I am going to do my best to make this as comprehensive as possible without overwhelming.


I really want NRS to know the full view on their product from the fans and given how this game is OFF most forums radar as bad already I feel they really need a full breakdown on everything from the fan's eyes. Tell me all your thoughts for or against anything in the game PERIOD. I will voice both sides of every argument objectively.

Hit me with all your everything TYM. Wednesday I'm going to open up After Effects and compile it all into a letter and send it to the Boon's twitter and anyone else you know how to contact within the studio involved on this game.

 

[Playpal]

I really don't see the point in discussing character rebalancing. We've been given very little footage of low-level play. We know next to nothing about these characters. We don't know anything about their combos, block strings, footsies, rush down or turtling. They'll likely not listen to you for these reasons and if they do, who's to say it's a good idea? Flash could become mk9's kano, he'll come off as broken and then turn out F-tier because of uneducated complaining.

Be sure to tell him we hate wager system and stage gimmicks though.

 

[shaowebb]

PS- I'll send this to urbanjabroni and rigo cortes the community manager as well since they are on twitter. Basically, anyone within the studio who handle game decisions or community feedback will be someone I try to send this to Wednesday.

Hit me with all your thoughts on

• CLASH
• STAGE TRANSITIONS
• GENERAL GAMEPLAY
• CHARACTER SPECIFIC ISSUES YOU HAVE EITHER FOR OR AGAINST CERTAIN THINGS

I want to hear everyone's everything. Lay it on me. We can argue each others thoughts in other threads but here let it all out and I will post the arguments for everything I can. I really think they need to know all the confusion people have over certain tools and know why people feel negatively about certain things as well as know what reasons others may have for not feeling that way. The game just isn't getting over with very many folks on other boards and I want them to have an idea of what crowds they aren't reaching and what crowds they are reaching with this game so far with what they are doing.

EDIT:
Character stuff being mentioned as an aside doesn't really seem to please anyone here so how about I clearly state that in general we need to get some more in depth character breakdown vids on their tools if they want to get any real impressions from the fans on game balance instead. They need to do this if they want to avoid making a bunch of hotfixes later to stay balanaced. I do want to give the rough impressions on a few tools as an aside, but if you guys are against it I will refrain.

Do you think mentioning Cyborg's inputs or Harley's random Gimmick and the kind of rough impression the fighting community has towards random moves you cant plan your offense around would be okay, though? I think they are pretty big things to point out that should be considered in design early on.

 

[PizzaMasta]

Yeah, I guess about Cyborg's inputs nobody is going to be against changing it to L/M/H instead of these strange directional inputs. ( although I'm pretty used to it, I'm maining Sektor ) As for Harley, the way you mention it here is more appealing to me. It's not just saying that it's random, it's talking about random moves in general, and maybe they'll be able to prove that this move isn't THAT random.

As for Clash, I'll stay by what I said and simply ask for a clear and precise description of the system before commenting on it, although it looks really cool IMO.

Oh, and as you kind of metioned here, and already touched upon in other threads, it'd be nice to have character-specific trailers for everyone, at least like Catwoman's trailer, or even maybe a full breakdown with dev commentary, even if it has to be after the game has launched.

 

[Art Killer B]

DOA have had stage transitions since DOA 2, and it works fine. Maybe the only thing they need to do, is to have an option -as in DOA 5- to turn off the 'cinematic action' in order to not alter the pace of the game. If anything, maybe the stage interactions are a little abusable (missiles, car/electric stuns).

As the inputs goes, I agree. They should go the standard way (L, M, H) instead of the same awkward MK directional inputs, even though most of us are used to them, there's no need to have them back if the can remove them.