What's new

F Champ Receives Lifetime Ban, Racism in the FGC/USA, and Other Prevalent Social Discussions

Onryoki

Annoyed Homosexual.
If you don't want to be called a racist, don't act racist and don't post racist nonsense. Don't evade questions about racism and come up with something better than girl I'm not racist when people call you out in it.

You got options, girl
I don’t really see how my opposing opinions about certain topics decide wether or not I hold bigoted views towards a certain race. I don’t see darker skinned people as less, or any other race for that matter since someone’s skin colour or heritage says nothing about a person’s intelligence, skills and personality.

Calling me a racist is a deep cutting insult, and I do not like or appreciate it. I don’t have the time or energy to hate on one certain group of people. Also, I am not really evading questions, I like to think about things before I post them, and sometimes I don’t know how to respond or what to say.

still, I don’t really have to prove myself to you as of why I’m not a racist. I know I’m not, so I don’t really have to prove myself or explain myself. Those are my opinions and if you don’t like them, that’s on you.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
It is, quite literally, a right-wing position. From Wikipedia article of the same name:

View attachment 17426

See number 5. I'm not calling you a name, I'm taking you at your word. If that causes a reactionary flinch, that's not my problem.
The Wikipedia article makes no mention of anything that I discussed with my analogy. Self-sufficiency is not a right-wing characteristic or position. LOL. Any successful individual almost anywhere in the world is self-sufficient.

He does this, literally, all the time. A small collection:




A more thorough list here: (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-biden-condemn-violence/fact-check-joe-biden-has-condemned-violent-protests-in-the-last-three-months-idUSKBN25V2O1)

I'm not a Joe Biden fan, but he knows how to be a milquetoast politician. Again, I recommend you change up your media sources that are obsessed with talking points and not facts.
The fact is that Biden has condemned violence in very general terms. He has yet to condemn the looting and rioting caused by some BLM members. He has refused to do so, and you and I know both know why.

I don’t really see how my opposing opinions about certain topics decide wether or not I hold bigoted views towards a certain race. I don’t see darker skinned people as less, or any other race for that matter since someone’s skin colour or heritage says nothing about a person’s intelligence, skills and personality.

Calling me a racist is a deep cutting insult, and I do not like or appreciate it. I don’t have the time or energy to hate on one certain group of people. Also, I am not really evading questions, I like to think about things before I post them, and sometimes I don’t know how to respond or what to say.

still, I don’t really have to prove myself to you as of why I’m not a racist. I know I’m not, so I don’t really have to prove myself or explain myself. Those are my opinions and if you don’t like them, that’s on you.
Considering the source, I would ignore the attacks.

Besides, almost all of us who are centrists or lean right have at some point or another been accused of racism, sexism, and xenophobia in this thread. So welcome to the club.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

(NOTHING)
Premium Supporter
And not a single mask among them.

You're a moron. Your base is made of morons. Normally I wouldn't waste my time or letters on drivel like this, but Mitch McConnell cracking his knuckles to steal another Supreme Court seat has me in a mood. I can't wait for this fucking election to be over no matter who wins, because it means either you'll all shut the fuck up forever, or you'll have another four years of L's to hold while you watch everything get worse. Just like we had to do with Bush 43, who by the end of his terms was so toxic that he wasn't even invited to campaign for Republican candidates running in 2008, while he was still in office and the economy was collapsing around him. I'll be right here celebrating with you and the other three Trumpers on here if he wins, because then you're going to get to see what happens when there's no big fight left for him or the GOP to campaign around, and he has nothing to do except his job. I'm going to have front row seats to that shit show.

This thread makes me glad I got the hell off of Facebook forever, because I don't think I could mentally handle an entire timeline of moronic and opportunistic Trumpism.

Agent Smith was right. Humans are a virus, and the person currently occupying the White House is the pinnacle of living disease.

Anyway, nice pictures.

:coffee: .
 

Onryoki

Annoyed Homosexual.
The Wikipedia article makes no mention of anything that I discussed with my analogy. Self-sufficiency is not a right-wing characteristic or position. LOL. Any successful individual almost anywhere in the world is self-sufficient.



The fact is that Biden has condemned violence in very general terms. He has yet to condemn the looting and rioting caused by some BLM members. He has refused to do so, and you and I know both know why.



Considering the source, I would ignore the attacks.

Besides, almost all of us who are centrists or lean right have at some point or another been accused of racism, sexism, and xenophobia in this thread. So welcome to the club.
The funny thing is I’m actually left wing for the most part. I just don’t necessarily agree with everything on the left. I don’t like the “woke” part of the left. They’re more like a cult than anything. Don’t believe in what they believe and you’re excluded from this elitist bullshit.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
This thread proves the soundtrack to this country is a bunch of people watching their people die while another explains to them why it's necessary. It could happen every day, every single day and the unaffected would continue to argue for the benefit of the doubt.

Even in this place where the single tie that binds us is a stupid video game about ninjas and uppercuts we have a line of actual black people being shouted down by people with their heads literally in the sand. "I'm not a trump supporter, I just think some of his positions are more valid than yours, than blm, than thousands of people fighting for justice around the globe. " Congratulations.

I wonder what sort of pride you feel, defending a monster like Ben Shapiro to an actual black person or transgendered person, to tout racist ass statistics about minorities to those minorities and say debunked when they all say it's blatantly untrue. How does it feel to watch people suffer and die and claim they had it coming, over and over and over, to defend some one you've never heard ofs right to carry a gun?

Yuck.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

(NOTHING)
Premium Supporter
This thread proves the soundtrack to this country is a bunch of people watching their people die while another explains to them why it's necessary. It could happen every day, every single day and the unaffected would continue to argue for the benefit of the doubt.

Even in this place where the single tie that binds us is a stupid video game about ninjas and uppercuts we have a line of actual black people being shouted down by people with their heads literally in the sand. "I'm not a trump supporter, I just think some of his positions are more valid than yours, than blm, than thousands of people fighting for justice around the globe. " Congratulations.

I wonder what sort of pride you feel, defending a monster like Ben Shapiro to an actual black person or transgendered person, to tout racist ass statistics about minorities to those minorities and say debunked when they all say it's blatantly untrue. How does it feel to watch people suffer and die and claim they had it coming, over and over and over, to defend some one you've never heard ofs right to carry a gun?

Yuck.
Seconded.

Like I fucking said: America has done some bad, BAD stuff.
You either know how to fucking read, or you're willfully ignorant to the subject of the pretext.

Like
The teaching of 1619 is being fought against, and people are okay with it? Are actually in favor of fighting against it so it can be phased out, like the Trail Of Tears and all the information about Native Americans that'll probably never be taught in public school again?
In the grander scheme of things, how the fuck do you think a country like Germany might feel about something like this? The fall of the Berlin Wall was almost 31 years ago. World War II ended 75 years ago. They don't get to escape their past. Ever. Why do we? Why does America get to keep acting like it isn't fucked up, too? It makes no sense.
 

Onryoki

Annoyed Homosexual.
This thread proves the soundtrack to this country is a bunch of people watching their people die while another explains to them why it's necessary. It could happen every day, every single day and the unaffected would continue to argue for the benefit of the doubt.

Even in this place where the single tie that binds us is a stupid video game about ninjas and uppercuts we have a line of actual black people being shouted down by people with their heads literally in the sand. "I'm not a trump supporter, I just think some of his positions are more valid than yours, than blm, than thousands of people fighting for justice around the globe. " Congratulations.

I wonder what sort of pride you feel, defending a monster like Ben Shapiro to an actual black person or transgendered person, to tout racist ass statistics about minorities to those minorities and say debunked when they all say it's blatantly untrue. How does it feel to watch people suffer and die and claim they had it coming, over and over and over, to defend some one you've never heard ofs right to carry a gun?

Yuck.
If this thread proves the soundtrack of USA (you’re not the only country that exists), maybe you should spend some more time outside. Most deaths are unnecessary, and the victims of police brutality didn’t deserve to die like that. But all I see people do is post about it on social media. Making the people that died just another trending hashtag.

I know Trump is a major idiot that’s unfit to rule a country, but you can’t blame him for everything. You can’t blame Trump for people being racist and people dying by police brutality. The racism didn’t suddenly sky rocket since trump got elected president. People were racist pre trump and are gonna be racist post trump. Same with police brutality, there will always be people getting killed by police brutality pre and post trump. So, him getting out of office really won’t change much. Racism won’t end, police brutality won’t end and BLM will just be a trending hashtag from time to time.

So I’m wondering what it is that people actually want. Because right now everything that happens right now seems completely pointless.


Seconded.

Like I fucking said: America has done some bad, BAD stuff.
You either know how to fucking read, or you're willfully ignorant to the subject of the pretext.

Like
The teaching of 1619 is being fought against, and people are okay with it? Are actually in favor of fighting against it so it can be phased out, like the Trail Of Tears and all the information about Native Americans that'll probably never be taught in public school again?
In the grander scheme of things, how the fuck do you think a country like Germany might feel about something like this? The fall of the Berlin Wall was almost 31 years ago. World War II ended 75 years ago. They don't get to escape their past. Ever. Why do we? Why does America get to keep acting like it isn't fucked up, too? It makes no sense.
No offense, but that’s because Americans are usually very stupid. Most Americans are VERY self centered when it comes to their own country. They’re also very patriotic and blind and choose to ignore facts and figures from the past. The education system is shit, everything that’s slightly progressive needs to be debated, it’s dumb.

Also, people in Germany do remember the wall getting tore down 31 years ago, but not many people in Germany keep themselves busy with it all the time. I’ve noticed people in USA keep themselves busy with these types of stuff 24/7 to the point where it’s an obsession.
 
Last edited:

Lt. Boxy Angelman

(NOTHING)
Premium Supporter
No offense, but that’s because Americans are usually very stupid. Most Americans are VERY self centered when it comes to their own country. They’re also very patriotic and blind and choose to ignore facts and figures from the past. The education system is shit, everything that’s slightly progressive needs to be debated, it’s dumb.

Also, people in Germany do remember the wall getting tore down 31 years ago, but not many people in Germany keep themselves busy with it all the time. I’ve noticed people in USA keep themselves busy with these types of stuff 24/7 to the point where it’s an obsession.
You will get no argument from me on either of those points. I agree. It's all fucked up.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
If this thread proves the soundtrack of USA (you’re not the only country that exists), maybe you should spend some more time outside. Most deaths are unnecessary, and the victims of police brutality didn’t deserve to die like that. But all I see people do is post about it on social media. Making the people that died just another trending hashtag.
Then you're fucking blind. By God dammed choice. And it makes me sick.

1) There have been over a hundred consecutive days of protests in cities around the globe, that have been met with open violence from police and the government, and people like you saying it's not real.

2) Athletes, celebrities, store owners, influencers, etc using their respective platforms to raise awareness only to be told time and time again that this is not the time for it and not to make it "political".

3) politicians, screaming for reform, attempting bill after bill after bill after bill to get passed into law to reign in the horrible monsters only to be stone walled by the Trump political army and people like you who say those people are wrong, monsters don't exist.

4) people like me and all the other "people posting on social media" having what little voice they have drowned out be people LIKE YOU who say all you're doing is hashtagging. You don't fucking know me. You don't know what protests I've been to from my kombat league record.

5) historically reconstructive books and articles being published by credible sources only to be #fakenews'd into oblivion by idiots like Ben Shapiro, Trump, and YOU who would rather watch a YouTube synopsis of it than digest the literary content.

Do I need to go on?

I know Trump is a major idiot that’s unfit to rule a country, but you can’t blame him for everything. You can’t blame Trump for people being racist and people dying by police brutality. The racism didn’t suddenly sky rocket since trump got elected president. People were racist pre trump and are gonna be racist post trump. Same with police brutality, there will always be people getting killed by police brutality pre and post trump. So, him getting out of office really won’t change much. Racism won’t end, police brutality won’t end and BLM will just be a trending hashtag from time to time.
This sad fucking paragraph is what people unaffected by systemic racism have been saying for going four hundred years while racists have been putting cigarettes out on our foreheads. Yeah, you know what Trump isn't the first racist in power, nor was bush, nor was Reagan, nor was Lincoln, nor was jackson, nor was king butt fucking James, but if just one of those assholes had been stopped instead of excused we could have progress. Instead now we have an entire generation of generation of generations of absolute fucking (soap bars in my mouth) united under the banner that America was great at some point that none of them dare specify because every single point of american success came on the backs of rampantly excused and later ignored black oppression.

So I’m wondering what it is that people actually want. Because right now everything that happens right now seems completely pointless.
We have made it inescapably clear what we want, and you would know that if you trusted us, and not our enemies. Let me spell it out for you, equality. The same set of rules applying to our race than others . It's not hard. We want to commit crimes and be punished the same way others are, or have them punished the way we are. We want to be free to buy stuff and be screwed by sellers in the same way as everyone else and not on some unique black only scale that assumes we're broke. We want our kids to get the whole story from history books and television and not just the version that makes white people look good.

Nobody ever stands up and says they're against thosev things so they call it something else. Communism, marxism, socialism. Wrap it up in a conspiracy, or assassinate the speakers character. But it's always powered by some racist statistic no one can explain" black people just do that more because...", provided by the exact people we say are the problem.

Can you tell me why we commit more violent crime? Can you tell me why we abandon our children? Why we seek drugs? Why we drop out of school? You ducked it earlier, so probably not. Probably society. probably "the government". But what you do know is that it's not your fault, not systemic racism, and it not simply because we are black. Great Job. Very brave.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
But it's always powered by some racist statistic no one can explain" black people just do that more because...", provided by the exact people we say are the problem.
This is the really the crux of the thread. No matter what all these other surrounding arguments are, it all come down to this:

You either believe that the stark racial disparities are genetic (which is the foundation for racism, eugenics, etc).. Or that it's because of the conditions that you've placed people into.

We already have decades worth of science debunking the first (racist) myth that people are simply presdisposed to be inferior or achieve less based on their ethnicity. And we have another load of evidence also showing that working hard is not how you make tons of money in America (or African-Americans would be rich, because they were brought over here to work harder than anyone else for nearly 250 years, and then used as a labor class after that for decades -- as they were not allowed to hold the "good" jobs, or have leadership/management positions, etc).

No one has worked harder historically in this country than the descendants of Africans, because that's all they were allowed to do, and they weren't given access to the luxuries that everyone else enjoyed at their expense. Period. Yet they were systematically deprived of being able to receive compensation for their hard work, for generations. That is the history, it is not in dispute.

The damage of hundreds of years of abuse does not disappear automagically, in the same sense that you can't tell someone who was severely abused as a child to "just get over it". Generational abuse has generational consequences.

No amount of hand-wringing, ad-hominem etc. can erase this fact. And this truth goes beyond all political boundaries, and was around long before TV, radio, social media, streaming video etc. So it's time for us to deal with it, plan and simple.
 

Onryoki

Annoyed Homosexual.
Then you're fucking blind. By God dammed choice. And it makes me sick.

1) There have been over a hundred consecutive days of protests in cities around the globe, that have been met with open violence from police and the government, and people like you saying it's not real.

2) Athletes, celebrities, store owners, influencers, etc using their respective platforms to raise awareness only to be told time and time again that this is not the time for it and not to make it "political".

3) politicians, screaming for reform, attempting bill after bill after bill after bill to get passed into law to reign in the horrible monsters only to be stone walled by the Trump political army and people like you who say those people are wrong, monsters don't exist.

4) people like me and all the other "people posting on social media" having what little voice they have drowned out be people LIKE YOU who say all you're doing is hashtagging. You don't fucking know me. You don't know what protests I've been to from my kombat league record.

5) historically reconstructive books and articles being published by credible sources only to be #fakenews'd into oblivion by idiots like Ben Shapiro, Trump, and YOU who would rather watch a YouTube synopsis of it than digest the literary content.

Do I need to go on?



This sad fucking paragraph is what people unaffected by systemic racism have been saying for going four hundred years while racists have been putting cigarettes out on our foreheads. Yeah, you know what Trump isn't the first racist in power, nor was bush, nor was Reagan, nor was Lincoln, nor was jackson, nor was king butt fucking James, but if just one of those assholes had been stopped instead of excused we could have progress. Instead now we have an entire generation of generation of generations of absolute fucking (soap bars in my mouth) united under the banner that America was great at some point that none of them dare specify because every single point of american success came on the backs of rampantly excused and later ignored black oppression.



We have made it inescapably clear what we want, and you would know that if you trusted us, and not our enemies. Let me spell it out for you, equality. The same set of rules applying to our race than others . It's not hard. We want to commit crimes and be punished the same way others are, or have them punished the way we are. We want to be free to buy stuff and be screwed by sellers in the same way as everyone else and not on some unique black only scale that assumes we're broke. We want our kids to get the whole story from history books and television and not just the version that makes white people look good.

Nobody ever stands up and says they're against thosev things so they call it something else. Communism, marxism, socialism. Wrap it up in a conspiracy, or assassinate the speakers character. But it's always powered by some racist statistic no one can explain" black people just do that more because...", provided by the exact people we say are the problem.

Can you tell me why we commit more violent crime? Can you tell me why we abandon our children? Why we seek drugs? Why we drop out of school? You ducked it earlier, so probably not. Probably society. probably "the government". But what you do know is that it's not your fault, not systemic racism, and it not simply because we are black. Great Job. Very brave.
I’m sorry but after reading your stuff, I am tired of this topic, we agree to disagree. I don’t agree with some stuff and neither do you, I’m tired of going back and forth with milk close to it’s expiration date. Can we move to another topic?
 
Last edited:

jokey77

Character Loyalist
This is the really the crux of the thread. No matter what all these other surrounding arguments are, it all come down to this.

You either believe that the stark racial disparities are genetic (which is the foundation for racism, eugenics, etc).. Or that it's because of the conditions that you've placed people into.

We already have decades worth of science debunking the first (racist) myth that people are simply presdisposed to be inferior or achieve less based on their ethnicity. And we have another load of evidence also showing that working hard is not how you make tons of money in America (or African-Americans would be rich, because they were brought over here to work harder than anyone else for nearly 250 years, and then used as a labor class after that for decades -- as they were not allowed to hold the "good" jobs, or have leadership/management positions, etc).

No one has worked harder historically in this country than the descendants of Africans, because that's all they were allowed to do, and they weren't given access to the luxuries that everyone else enjoyed at their expense. Period. Yet they were systematically deprived of being able to receive compensation for their hard work, for generations. That is the history, it is not in dispute.

The damage of hundreds of years of abuse does not disappear automagically, in the same sense that you can't tell someone who was severely abused as a child to "just get over it". Generational abuse has generational consequences.

No amount of hand-wringing, ad-hominem etc. can erase this fact. And this truth goes beyond all political boundaries, and was around long before TV, radio, social media, streaming video etc. So it's time for us to deal with it, plan and simple.
I think that when talking about the failures of societies, one has to keep two questions apart. - One makes sense, the other is absurd:
  1. What can we learn from the past? How can we do better in the future? How can we avoid repeating mistakes?
  2. How can we make up for historical mistakes made by previous (!) generations in the present?
Slavery is a good example. Nazi Germany is another one. - Here and now it is our duty to learn from history and to see that such horrible things never happen again! In this respect it is important to deal with history!

However it becomes problematic when people demand, out of emotion, that the injustice of past (!) generations must be compensated in the present. The absurdity can be shown quickly. Take slavery as an example:
  • How many years should one go back?
  • Should only slavery be compensated or should other forms of oppression be compensated as well?
  • Should all whites pay the same amount of compensation, or should southern states possibly pay more?
  • Should the descendants of simple workers, who have been as badly off as slaves, also pay?
  • Should black immigrants whose ancestors did not live in America also receive compensation?
... one could construde a hundred more such questions which can't be answered.

I think one thing has to be said quite clearly: Any redistribution of wealth in which blacks alone are to be 'rewarded' for their skin color is absurd.

Of course, one can certainly disuss a redistribution of wealth. For example it is reasonable to ask whether the gap between the richest and the poorest really has to be so wide. The question could be asked whether this should be counteracted by higher tax rates (or whether this would lead to more poverty). However: In this case a poor white man and a poor black man would be in the same boat.

However, once the 'redistribution of wealth beacause of skin color' is ruled out as an option, even I think that the BLM adresses some important topics.

The examples of @trufenix are good ones (in my opinion): It definitly is racism, if a black person is punished harder than a white person. It definitly is racism, if a black and a white person have the same income, but the latter is more likely to get a loan or a rental apartment. - As a European I can't say how much of a problem these examples really are in the U.S. But in this regard I am on your side: Such things shouldn't happen in the 21st century!
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
If this thread proves the soundtrack of USA (you’re not the only country that exists), maybe you should spend some more time outside.
People should spend more time doing research and less time being social justice warriors.

The Bureau of Justice Statistics collected data on contacts between police and the public in 2008. The following are some of the highlights.

  • An estimated 9 out of 10 residents who had contact with police in 2008 felt the police acted properly.
  • The most common reason for contact with police in 2008 was being a driver in a traffic stop (44.1%).
  • White (8.4%), black (8.8%), and Hispanic (9.1%) drivers were stopped by police at similar rates in 2008.
  • Male drivers (9.9%) were stopped at higher rates than female drivers (7.0%).
  • In 2008 about 5% of traffic stops led to a search. Police were more likely to search male drivers than female driver.
  • Among persons who had contact with police in 2008, an estimated 1.4% had force used or threatened against them during their most recent contact, which was not statistically different from the percentages in 2002 (1.5%) and 2005 (1.6%).
The only piece of evidence resembling police brutality that the research discovered is "Black drivers were about three times as likely as white drivers and about two times as likely as Hispanic drivers to be searched during a traffic stop", which is quiet different from the notion that police are "actively hunting down" black men in America. This type of prevalent rhetoric is as dangerous for Black men as it is for police officers.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I think that when talking about the failures of societies, one has to keep two questions apart. - One makes sense, the other is absurd:
  1. What can we learn from the past? How can we do better in the future? How can we avoid repeating mistakes?
  2. How can we make up for historical mistakes made by previous (!) generations in the present?
Slavery is a good example. Nazi Germany is another one. - Here and now it is our duty to learn from history and to see that such horrible things never happen again! In this respect it is important to deal with history!

However it becomes problematic when people demand, out of emotion, that the injustice of past (!) generations must be compensated in the present. The absurdity can be shown quickly. Take slavery as an example:
  • How many years should one go back?
  • Should only slavery be compensated or should other forms of oppression be compensated as well?
  • Should all whites pay the same amount of compensation, or should southern states possibly pay more?
  • Should the descendants of simple workers, who have been as badly off as slaves, also pay?
  • Should black immigrants whose ancestors did not live in America also receive compensation?
... one could construde a hundred more such questions which can't be answered.

I think one thing has to be said quite clearly: Any redistribution of wealth in which blacks alone are to be 'rewarded' for their skin color is absurd.

Of course, one can certainly disuss a redistribution of wealth. For example it is reasonable to ask whether the gap between the richest and the poorest really has to be so wide. The question could be asked whether this should be counteracted by higher tax rates (or whether this would lead to more poverty). However: In this case a poor white man and a poor black man would be in the same boat.

However, once the 'redistribution of wealth beacause of skin color' is ruled out as an option, even I think that the BLM adresses some important topics.

The examples of @trufenix are good ones (in my opinion): It definitly is racism, if a black person is punished harder than a white person. It definitly is racism, if a black and a white person have the same income, but the latter is more likely to get a loan or a rental apartment. - As a European I can't say how much of a problem these examples really are in the U.S. But in this regard I am on your side: Such things shouldn't happen in the 21st century!
It's not about compensation -- it's about trying to restore the balance when you've spent hundreds of years destroying it. And it's not about 'going back'; it's about moving forward.

I don't look at this as a competition of who gets what: I look at it as motivation to help fix that situation people have been put in. Wealth is one part of the equation, but neighborhoods, schools, access to other resources are the things that allow you the comfort, freedom and knowledge to use wealth in a sensible way.

The point isn't to 'reward' anyone for their skin color -- but because the damage that was done was along the lines of skin color, those are the lines along which the results of these specific injustices need to be addressed.

You can say the same for Native Americans -- killing them because they're Native American and taking them off of their land, but then saying "oh but we don't want to talk about race/ethnicity!" afterward makes no sense. If on ethnic majority damaged their people, specifically, then that majority should help fix the situation that you've put them in. I don't mind helping, as I live on this land as well.

So I'm not interested in establishing this game of payoffs and guilt and digging back into the past to hunt for specific people. But I am interested in directing more resources toward fixing the social, educational, and financial hole that two specific groups of people were put into in this country, intentionally, by design and by race. Hopefully that makes sense.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
to tout racist ass statistics about minorities to those minorities and say debunked when they all say it's blatantly untrue.
Drivel like this isn't helping your cause. The numbers are racist because a bunch of people say "nuh uh"?

Skipping to the "why" part of the equation while being unwilling to acknowledge the "what" part doesn't work. But you know that.

Yeah, you know what Trump isn't the first racist in power...

nor was Lincoln...

but if just one of those assholes had been stopped instead of excused we could have progress.
So we've already had the "USA was behind the Nazis in WWII" in this thread.

Next is that Lincoln is among the evils our world has known that should've been stopped... So America could've made some racial progress.

----
These clear up your eagerness to encourage others to use the Ignore function on the site and avoid discourse. In line with the "agree with me or die" types.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
The presidency of the US, like many positions in the world, is an inherently corrupted position. The job is to uphold a structure that needs inequality to work, so there's not a whole lot you can do as President where you don't tag some human rights violations here or there. It's a brutal job that requires brutal work, but sometimes credit is owed where credit is due, like Lincoln.

That said, there was no reason Prescott Bush, Henry Ford, and others had to supply Nazis with finance and steel and legal counsel other than greed and/or ideological ties. The USA was sympathetic to Nazis until self-interest got in the way, and I think trying to erase that history in favor of a more heroic, self-serving one ignores that many in the US who had ties to Nazis and should have been prosecuted were not and subsequently accumulated political positions granting them massive power. If one were interested in figuring out how politicians like Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham could be such hypocrites, there is huge precedent in history.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I’m sorry but after reading your stuff, I am tired of this topic, we agree to disagree. I don’t agree with some stuff and neither do you, I’m tired of going back and forth with milk close to it’s expiration date. Can we move to another topic?

Ba ha fucking ha. Yes, take a break you poor wounded vanguard. You never had to bring your weak ass opinion in here to begin with and no one ever seconded it, but yes, do respectfully retreat because it's become too hard to keep up the fight. Go enjoy your milk and get out of our way like we told you to pages ago. Maybe pick up a book, while you're at it.

It makes me sick you people can't even lose with dignity.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Drivel like this isn't helping your cause. The numbers are racist because a bunch of people say "nuh uh"?

Skipping to the "why" part of the equation while being unwilling to acknowledge the "what" part doesn't work. But you know that.
I acknowledged the what, when will one of you geniuses answer the question? Why do black people ruin their own neighborhoods, abandon their children, and commit more violent crimes? There are "statistics" proving all three. Now, acknowledge the why genius?


So we've already had the "USA was behind the Nazis in WWII" in this thread.

Next is that Lincoln is among the evils our world has known that should've been stopped... So America could've made some racial progress.
Lincoln believed blacks were inferior to whites even after the civil war. It's a fact. He defended white slave owners during his youth as a lawyer. Again , fucking facts.

Just doing one good thing doesn't erase being a piece of shit racist anymore than just saying Lincoln wasn't a racist because he was on the right side of the civil war. The civil war wasn't fought over black rights, it was fought to preserve the nation. The level of black oppression both before and after the war was almost identical, or have you read a lot of history books that say freed black men had it awesome.

----
These clear up your eagerness to encourage others to use the Ignore function on the site and avoid discourse. In line with the "agree with me or die" types.
You, as well, are welcome to get right the fuck out of here or ignore me. Nobody wants or needs your shit house opinion in this thread and I haven't seen a got a single reply that was backed with more facts than it was insults and hyperbole. You can either learn something, or keep fighting.

At least until they ban defending black rights around here.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I think that when talking about the failures of societies, one has to keep two questions apart. - One makes sense, the other is absurd:
  1. What can we learn from the past? How can we do better in the future? How can we avoid repeating mistakes?
  2. How can we make up for historical mistakes made by previous (!) generations in the present?
Slavery is a good example. Nazi Germany is another one. - Here and now it is our duty to learn from history and to see that such horrible things never happen again! In this respect it is important to deal with history!

However it becomes problematic when people demand, out of emotion, that the injustice of past (!) generations must be compensated in the present. The absurdity can be shown quickly. Take slavery as an example:
  • How many years should one go back?
  • Should only slavery be compensated or should other forms of oppression be compensated as well?
  • Should all whites pay the same amount of compensation, or should southern states possibly pay more?
  • Should the descendants of simple workers, who have been as badly off as slaves, also pay?
  • Should black immigrants whose ancestors did not live in America also receive compensation?
... one could construde a hundred more such questions which can't be answered.

I think one thing has to be said quite clearly: Any redistribution of wealth in which blacks alone are to be 'rewarded' for their skin color is absurd.

Of course, one can certainly disuss a redistribution of wealth. For example it is reasonable to ask whether the gap between the richest and the poorest really has to be so wide. The question could be asked whether this should be counteracted by higher tax rates (or whether this would lead to more poverty). However: In this case a poor white man and a poor black man would be in the same boat.

However, once the 'redistribution of wealth beacause of skin color' is ruled out as an option, even I think that the BLM adresses some important topics.

The examples of @trufenix are good ones (in my opinion): It definitly is racism, if a black person is punished harder than a white person. It definitly is racism, if a black and a white person have the same income, but the latter is more likely to get a loan or a rental apartment. - As a European I can't say how much of a problem these examples really are in the U.S. But in this regard I am on your side: Such things shouldn't happen in the 21st century!
While you're almost entirely accurate, your appraisal is far too abstract, and too grand. Our systemicv racism isn't a symptom of those grandiose events, it is the cause.

This is a nation founded on the principle that all men are created equal except all the ones they deem aren't men. And who gives a fuck what happens to the others. Once upon a time the list of men was exclusively rich white males, and every generation since the not men have chipped away at that bullshit causing wars and laws and protests and riots and everything else woven into our rich tapestry of american violence and oppression. We've built other countries based on it, we've destroyed other countries based on it.

Some say this group or that group has won because they got this or that, but the reality is all the not men are still fighting harder than the original men. We see every day when this thing happens to us, but that thing happens to them. They tell us when and how it's appropriate to protest. When people make jokes at our expense and when we take offense they get to say "lighten up". It was illegal in this country once to BE gay. Think about that.

My race in particular has lived in perennial fear for almost four hundred years because it has literally always been open season on us. It has never been as bad for a black person to die in the country as it is for white people, and you can play the spectrum card if you want, try and throw latinos or native Americans or Arabs in there because now we all have to play the game against them, but the reality is the subjugation of one race in particular has been our nation's corner stone since fucking day one. Literally, day one. It's why they came over here, it's why they created police, it's why they fought the civil war, it's why we've only had one black president in two hundred years of "equal" representation. Because this country refuses to run without black people underfoot.

Maybe it can't, I honestly don't know anymore because I thought for sure 100 straight days of protests after police ceremoniously executed a black man on camera on tv screens world wide, something would change but here we are, on a a forum about ninjas and sorcerers hearing the same old tired excuses " look at all these reasons this black man has to die or be shot. Look at all these reasons this white person was allowed to kill. Here are all the reasons we gave your parents and your parents parents and even the native americans who said hey that's kind of fucked up so you know what the whites said it's okay to kill them too."

Like you can look up what they said about black revolutionaries at the time, we have enough internet and paper to document it all now. Pick an era, and then read what news papers the news papers were saying about blacks. It wasn't fuck yeah let's help the blacks. It's the same things they say now, about kaep, about blm, about boyega, about the black people raging in this thread. " You're being ridiculous. Look how good you have it. We have perfectly good reasons for this and look, sometimes it happens to white people too. Racism doesn't exist, they told us so." And then next week "whoops, there goes another one"

Ugh.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
The point isn't to 'reward' anyone for their skin color -- but because the damage that was done was along the lines of skin color, those are the lines along which the results of these specific injustices need to be addressed.

You can say the same for Native Americans -- killing them because they're Native American and taking them off of their land, but then saying "oh but we don't want to talk about race/ethnicity!" afterward makes no sense. If on ethnic majority damaged their people, specifically, then that majority should help fix the situation that you've put them in. I don't mind helping, as I live on this land as well.
Yes, but many Afro-Americans are immigrants. Their ancestors were no slaves. - So do they deserve "help" as well? The same amount?

I find it strange how you think in ethic groups. It sounds like there was "a collective guilt of the whites", whereby it does not depend on the actions of the individual (or his ancestors). - Isn't it exactly this way of thinking that leads to racism? Judging a person by his skin color, not by his actions?

Again: It is perfectly reasonable and important to discuss a redistribution of wealth. But then the headline must not be "Black Lives Matter". Instead the headline must be something like "The Poor Matter".

Everything else would lead to a frightening outcome: By trying to help poor blacks more than poor whites, you accept to create an underclass of poor white people. You can't be serious...?! - We have to end racism as whole, not shift a stigma from one ethic group to the next!

While you're almost entirely accurate, your appraisal is far too abstract, and too grand. Our systemicv racism isn't a symptom of those grandiose events, it is the cause.

This is a nation founded on the principle that all men are created equal except all the ones they deem aren't men. And who gives a fuck what happens to the others. Once upon a time the list of men was exclusively rich white males, and every generation since the not men have chipped away at that bullshit causing wars and laws and protests and riots and everything else woven into our rich tapestry of american violence and oppression. We've built other countries based on it, we've destroyed other countries based on it.

Some say this group or that group has won because they got this or that, but the reality is all the not men are still fighting harder than the original men. We see every day when this thing happens to us, but that thing happens to them. They tell us when and how it's appropriate to protest. When people make jokes at our expense and when we take offense they get to say "lighten up". It was illegal in this country once to BE gay. Think about that.

My race in particular has lived in perennial fear for almost four hundred years because it has literally always been open season on us. It has never been as bad for a black person to die in the country as it is for white people, and you can play the spectrum card if you want, try and throw latinos or native Americans or Arabs in there because now we all have to play the game against them, but the reality is the subjugation of one race in particular has been our nation's corner stone since fucking day one. Literally, day one. It's why they came over here, it's why they created police, it's why they fought the civil war, it's why we've only had one black president in two hundred years of "equal" representation. Because this country refuses to run without black people underfoot.

Maybe it can't, I honestly don't know anymore because I thought for sure 100 straight days of protests after police ceremoniously executed a black man on camera on tv screens world wide, something would change but here we are, on a a forum about ninjas and sorcerers hearing the same old tired excuses " look at all these reasons this black man has to die or be shot. Look at all these reasons this white person was allowed to kill. Here are all the reasons we gave your parents and your parents parents and even the native americans who said hey that's kind of fucked up so you know what the whites said it's okay to kill them too."

Like you can look up what they said about black revolutionaries at the time, we have enough internet and paper to document it all now. Pick an era, and then read what news papers the news papers were saying about blacks. It wasn't fuck yeah let's help the blacks. It's the same things they say now, about kaep, about blm, about boyega, about the black people raging in this thread. " You're being ridiculous. Look how good you have it. We have perfectly good reasons for this and look, sometimes it happens to white people too. Racism doesn't exist, they told us so." And then next week "whoops, there goes another one"

Ugh.
I would like to tell a story that has influenced me:

One day I was walking downtown. Suddenly I saw a brawl between two locals, one of whom was a drug addict. I am kinda tall and have martial arts experience. That is why I dared to stand between the fighters. After I had separated the two, the drug addict suddenly turned to his girlfriend and started to strangle her violently. I thought about what to do because the drug addict was covered in blood from the fight . I wanted to help the girl, but - I tell you honestly - I did not want to touch the drug addict.

While I was still thinking, a refugee (propably from Afghanistan) came from behind and held the drug addict down.

A few moments later, there was a crackling left and right of me. The police stormed in and grabbed everyone involved. The most brutal action they took was against the refugee. On the other hand, I was not even touched, although I was standing in the middle of the fighting guys and was obviously involved.

I am not sure for how long the police has watched the scene and whether they knew that I was only trying to deescalate - or if that was because I am an average white person.

In my country it is statistically proven that refugees commit disproportionately many crimes. In this concrete situation, however, I found the actions of the police so infinitely harmful. I would wish that all people - like said Afghan refugee - had the same opportunities to do good.

I just don't have a solution as to what measures can be used to achieve this. - To be less abstract: What concrete measures do you propose?
 
Last edited:

Onryoki

Annoyed Homosexual.
Ba ha fucking ha. Yes, take a break you poor wounded vanguard. You never had to bring your weak ass opinion in here to begin with and no one ever seconded it, but yes, do respectfully retreat because it's become too hard to keep up the fight. Go enjoy your milk and get out of our way like we told you to pages ago. Maybe pick up a book, while you're at it.

It makes me sick you people can't even lose with dignity.
The old me would go off on pathetic SJW’s like you. I respectfully retreat because I don’t want to be messaged by the mods due to my combative nature. It’s called me being mature, and being the bigger person instead of stooping to your level. Me having a working life and having multiple hobbies to keep myself sane and not be this obsessive with all this crap also helps. That’s why I decided to not continue to argue against a brick wall. Not because you’re superior to me, or won the argument.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I just don't have a solution as to what measures can be used to achieve this. - To be less abstract: What concrete measures do you propose?
The concrete measures are simple. HOLD RACISTS ACCOUNTABLE. Lets look at all the ways the events of your story could have been addressed:

Failure 1: YOU
You still tell that story with an air of doubt, and you bring it up LATE in the discussion with a black man about blm. This is the first problem. People with suspicion of biased action remaining silent. You KNOW that scenario was unfair. You KNOW it was. But you were quiet? Why? You had your motivations. I'm sure. You still have your motivations. The people who suffer the abuse don't have that luxury, and to the perpetrators who do it and get away with it, your silence is encouragement.

How do you fix this? Stop keeping it a secret. Stop whipping it out late in discussions on dead forums about fighting games and go tell your friends or your family about it. Find someone who says this shit happened to them and give them some props. Or a dollar. Or follow them and LISTEN TO THEIR STORIES. Stop giving the obvious crooked cops the benefit of the doubt. You think that's the first time they did that? You think its the last? You think they ever even apologized?

Failure 2: The perpetrators
Stop crooked fucking cops. It never gets old how many people claim they saw a cop do something bad, but still say police are inherently good. You see them run stop lights, beat people, cause accidents, make mistakes, shoot the innocent, harass the elderly, arrest god damned children. Do you know how many other bad things cops do? Can you imagine? Now, ask youself the last time you heard of cops holding other cops accountable. Even once. I'll wait. Show me one piece of footage where ONE COP stood up to a bad cop. What happened to that cop? Did he start a movement? Did he cause a stage a walk out? Did he keep his job? Is he even still alive? The answer to all those questions is nope to probably not. The cops who killed Breonna Taylor just got their walking papers to the tune of 12 million. 12 million and a legal agreement that the family won't bring it the fuck back up. Well what agreement did the cops who fired 22 bullets into the wrong apartment have to sign? Literally god damned nothing. Just another day on the force. Probably got a promotion.

How do you fix this? Defund the police. Simple. Less weapons, less police, more technology, more training. Change qualified immunity. HOLD COPS FUCKING ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE MURDERS AND HAVOC AND CHAOS THEY CAUSE. Not hard concepts, but to some even thinking about it is impossible. They can't imagine a world without cops, even though they can't even recall the last time they had a positive interaction with a cop. Its madness.

Failure 3: The silent majority
Every mother fucker like @Onryoki who sees racial (or any cultural bias, because it all stems from the same fucked up human psychology) bias, who watches people die and says lets think about the rights of the killers. They are the ones who create excuses and loopholes for the perpetrators to jump through. He may have done it for a racist reason, but if someone says THATS RACIST and someone says THATS SELF DEFENSE, which answer are they going to claim?

Ask youself this question, when a racist does something racist, do you think they call it racist? Do you think they believe they are acting racist? Do you think a racist flag goes off in their bed and they go home at night and put a quarter in the jar or cut themselves or pray or even pour out a drink for their momentary transgression? Or do you think they believe they are justified? The slave owners sure as hell didn't think they were racist. Blacks weren't people, how could it be racist. Meanwhile, everybody who ate, drank and otherwise lived by the swing of his whip stays quiet when the beatings start. Its no different now, when a black person dies and people spring to the defense of the weapons, and the police, and the politicians who back them. Those two crazy people pointed guns fucking guns at unarmed protesters on their sidewalk, and they got to speak at the RN-fucking-C about the importantance of protecting yourself. An event so backwards and ironic it makes my ears bleed.

How do you fix this? Fix the other two problems. People like you on the fence, willing to listen, need to stop pretending like systemic racism is a maybe, and start whole heartedly agreeeing its real and its a problem. Then you'll start to see all these "I dont know maybes" for the ongoing string of attrocities it is. Next, deal with the fucking cops. The fact that the authoritative structure in this country is designed to defend itself against protest is fucking ludicrous. The cops in this country have license to arrest us for anything, kill us for disagree, and then be excused by themselves and organizations loyal to them.

It doesn't matter what WE say, the cops have made that much clear. We've been rapping and singing and dancing and writing and fighting and shooting and you name it about how fucked the police are since the birth of the police (look up the Boston Watch). BUt yeah, I bet if they couldn't hide behind Karen's and @Onryoki 's giving them the benefit of the doubt because they think being a cop is like Law & Order we could make some progress. I mean the portland cops shot the mayor. Pro-cop people said fuck that guy, he had it coming. That was like, day 10 of the protests.

failure 4: the god damned government.
Contrary to popular belief, the government is people. Greedy people, but still people and some of those people are racists, a lot of them in fact. Everyone? Maybe no, but enough that racist sentiment has been allowed to thrive fucking THRIVE in our law making and criminal justice system for centuries. We all know the country was created by racists, Hamilton can't hip hop around that shit. The US has always been a place where a man would pass a law that he claims applies to everyone, and then stab the guy he wrote it with in the fucking back, and then make a black carry the body out to the trash. Why people think this premise has changed in 400 years, without any concrete evidence of it accept the stabbers have all said trust us, we don't do that anymore, I do not know, but they did not call themselves racist back stabbers back then, I doubt they do now.

How do you fix this? Oh, I don't know, how about elect some politicians of color. Politicians who come from career paths other than law and finance (industries POC can't even get into). People who have actually experienced and been affected by the systemic racism that plagues our nation. How about electing some politicians that didn't come from whitey white ville and ran with a trillion dollars of super pac money behind them. How about re-structuring some districts so representation of the poor isn't done exclusively by the fucking poor? Doesn't it seem a little weird (ie: racist) that 2% of the presidents in this country where supposedly every single class / culture gets representation were not rich white men prior to becoming president? Like, do you think its because women and blacks just didn't want to be president until 10 years ago? Are we too dumb to work the voting machines? No.