Can you point to where I said something about race in that quote, or "baited" anyone?but as usual you cannot help yourself but engage in race baiting in all aspects of American life.
That's right, you can't.
Can you point to where I said something about race in that quote, or "baited" anyone?but as usual you cannot help yourself but engage in race baiting in all aspects of American life.
So basically, no response to it, yet you still claim it doesn’t exist. Welcome to internet discourse everybody, where people just put their fingers in their ears and shout away. Lovely.I only read some posts because the amount of paragraphs written in this thread makes me feel like I’m reading a J.K. Rowling book. I just share my own thoughts and beliefs that came from my own life experiences. White privilege may be a thing to y’all but I refuse to believe in it. I don’t want to get put into this mindset where I have to be jealous of white people because they’re more privileged. Or that they have to apologise they’re more privileged. Life isn’t fair and you just have to do it with the cards you have.
Not at all. The whole point is that it's something that basically happens behind the scenes, unintentional. In no way does it suggest white people or anybody is "obsessed" with race, or that people are actively trying to be racist. Again, you just keep choosing to mis-interpret everything.The article is assuming that every white person is racist and/or implicitly obsessed with race.
That's not what the given example is pointing out. The example is stating that stores and products were, for a very a long time, almost exclusively marketed with the idea of a white person being the normal or default audience. Same thing with television shows, movies, books, stuff like that.To follow the given example, I think most white people will refuse to purchase a brand of shampoo because they dislike the price and/or the scent instead of disliking the shampoo bottle because of a pictured black man or woman. I genuinely feel like an idiot having to point out this fact.
In an ideal world, sure. That doesn't mean it's how the real world plays out.A company is most likely to hire the person, whether white or black, best-suited for the job because it is in the human resource department's best interest to do so.
Just because something is difficult to prove on a case by case individual level doesn't mean you can't take the data as a whole and draw reasonable conclusions from it based on deviations from expected outcomes. It's about probabilities.This entire implicit bias nonsense has zero scientific value because it is extremely difficult to prove. You have to be able to read people's minds or assume people are racist by nature.
You instantly explained for/to me that I am a "Marxist" without even asking for my opinion yet. You actually don't do what you say.I personally live my life giving people the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.
Big up to my fellow socialists (apparently). Fucking LOL.I do not perceive you as Marxist, but I do think you are liberal. I am confident that I know where most posters in this thread stand ideologically.
Conservative
- Sub_On_Dubs
Classical Liberal
Centrist
- ChaosTheory
- Jokey77
- M2Dave
Liberal
- Anarchist_Gib
- Dankster Morgan
- Onryoki
Socialist
- Crimson Shadow
- Juggs
- Haketh
- Lt. Boxy Angelman
- Marlow
- RoboCop
- Rude
Marxist
- ItsYaBoy
- Kabelfritz
- Mrapchem
- Pangolin-man
- King Hippo
So what would you say is the difference between the "classical" liberal and the regular liberal? Because I definitely feel like I have more in common with the older generations than the younger ones as far as how I realistically view the world.I do not perceive you as Marxist, but I do think you are liberal.
White privilege definitely exists, but this isn't an example of it. Isiah Thomas, Derek Fisher, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, Doc Rivers, Mark Jackson, and Lenny Wilkins are examples of former black players who became a head coach without any prior experience.That feeling when even non-minority members of the NBA staff admit that this exists:
Steve Nash admits to benefiting from White privilege, saying he skipped the line to get head coaching job | CNN
Steve Nash admitted to benefiting from White privilege, saying he did "skip the line" to become an NBA head coach and acknowledged criticisms from analysts in that process.www.cnn.com
Yeah. It's kind of hard to categorically deny it when the very people who are involved are saying otherwise.
Steve Nash has always been -- pardon the pun -- a straight shooter; so there's little reason for him to be disingenuous here.
You'll have to argue that one with Steve Nash, rather than with me. He's not someone who's prone to making a ton of social or political statements, and he's always spoken his mind. So if he says he feels it was involved, I'd take him at his word.White privilege definitely exists, but this isn't an example of it. Isiah Thomas, Derek Fisher, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, Doc Rivers, Mark Jackson, and Lenny Wilkins are examples of former black players who became a head coach without any prior experience.
While I'm not saying that Nash is being disingenuous with his statement, I think part of it had to do with PR/damage control, and the rest of it being due to his overall humility. I followed his entire career and he's always been an all around nice and humble person, so it doesn't surprise me that he's not being egotistical about this. The word is that they not only hired him due to being a high basketball IQ floor general, but because of his relationship with the team's 2 black superstars, Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving.
Just like former NFL QB's and MLB catchers, there's this incorrect idea that former NBA point guards will instantly have success as a head coach without experience as an assistant first, and it usually fails. I think hiring Nash immediately as a head coach is a mistake.
For the Classical Liberal, rights are “negative” (based on the inaction of others, like the right to consume raw milk. I have the liberty/freedom to do what I want to do). For the modern or social liberal, rights are “positive” (extended to others through action, like the right to medical coverage as extended by programs like Medicaid and Medicare .So what would you say is the difference between the "classical" liberal and the regular liberal?
From my perspective, Neo-liberals attribute every inequity in society to racism and discrimination instead of placing emphasis on personal responsibility and decision making, insist on disintegrating certain aspects of the system instead of reforming them, promote identify politics and collectivism instead of individualism, and engage in foreign interventionism instead of diplomacy and isolation when appropriate. Classic liberals prefer less government involvement but understand that government must intervene in certain circumstances in order to protect liberties and safety of the individual.So what would you say is the difference between the "classical" liberal and the regular liberal?
You're just talking about Liberals in general. Neo-liberals or Neoliberalism is different. Neo-liberals would be more akin to being in favor of Free Markets and De-regulation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism#United_StatesFrom my perspective, Neo-liberals attribute every inequity in society to racism and discrimination instead of placing emphasis on personal responsibility and decision making, insist on disintegrating certain aspects of the system instead of reforming them, promote identify politics and collectivism instead of individualism, and engage in foreign interventionism instead of diplomacy and isolation when appropriate. Classic liberals prefer less government involvement but understand that government must intervene in certain circumstances in order to protect liberties and safety of the individual.
Maybe you should take some reading classes because I said “I refuse to believe in it” I didn’t claim it didn’t exist. I said it may be a thing to y’all. If you’re gonna quote me don’t twist my words.So basically, no response to it, yet you still claim it doesn’t exist. Welcome to internet discourse everybody, where people just put their fingers in their ears and shout away. Lovely.
I have done both in this thread. I take issue with your definition of racism because you seem to imply that any inequity in the system is the result of racism and discrimination. In other words, unless blacks, or any other minority group, are represented proportionately in all aspects of life, the system is racist and discriminatory. You talk about the fact that 75% of NBA players are black, yet only a few are owners. What changes, if any, would you make to equalize the field?These two things exist along two different axes. There isn't a spectrum from racism to personal responsibility. You can both fight discrimination and encourage personal responsibility at the same time.
This post increases my faith in humanity. thank you, sir or madam.I'm definitely not a Marxist.. omg.. what's happening to m.. Здравствуйте мои товарищи!!
George Soros is a wealthy Jewish billionaire. He's the target of a lot of antisemitism from far right wing nationalistic groups, who float insane conspiracy theories about how George Soros is trying to fund a takeover of America. Those same criticisms then also get picked up and repeated by conservatives who don't like that he donates to liberal leaning causes. So now conservatives use Geroge Soros as this boogeyman where they can just invoke his name, as if he's some kind of controversial figure, and use that to disparage any group he donates to. I'm not saying that anyone who criticizes George Soros is an anti-Semite, but they're basically just recycling anti-semite talking points, or at the least talking points that were born out of antisemitism.I mentioned George Soros as a financier and he immediately implies that I am an anti-semite.
Yeah, outside of our differences about systemic racism in America, I do literally none of that.From my perspective, Neo-liberals attribute every inequity in society to racism and discrimination instead of placing emphasis on personal responsibility and decision making, insist on disintegrating certain aspects of the system instead of reforming them, promote identify politics and collectivism instead of individualism, and engage in foreign interventionism instead of diplomacy and isolation when appropriate. Classic liberals prefer less government involvement but understand that government must intervene in certain circumstances in order to protect liberties and safety of the individual.
Wow, this is one of those posts that made me think. I never saw it that way, but you are propably right! Is this distinction common knowledge in the US? - Thank you very much for your post!For the Classical Liberal, rights are “negative” (based on the inaction of others, like the right to consume raw milk. I have the liberty/freedom to do what I want to do). For the modern or social liberal, rights are “positive” (extended to others through action, like the right to medical coverage as extended by programs like Medicaid and Medicare .
A negative right is a right not to be subjected to an action of another person or group; negative rights permit or oblige inaction. A positive right is a right to be subjected to an action or another person or group; positive rights permit or oblige action.
Rights considered negative rights may include civil and political rights such as freedom of speech, life, private property, freedom from violent crime, freedom of religion, habeas corpus, a fair trial, and freedom from slavery.
Rights considered positive rights, as initially proposed in 1979 by the Czech jurist Karel Vašák, may include other civil and political rights such as police protection of person and property and the right to counsel, as well as economic, social and cultural rights such as food, housing, public education, employment, national security, military, health care, social security, internet access, and a minimum standard of living.
Obviously there's some overlap, but a Classical Liberal is likely going to put more of an emphasis on negative rights, while the modern liberal or social liberal is going to put more emphasis on positive rights. Classical liberal is basically libertarian. A lot of people on the conservative side of the spectrum like to identify themselves as Classical Liberal instead of Republican because then they can distance themselves from the Trumpified Republican party. Plus then they can feel a bit more fancy about themselves.
I agree. I fucking love when the nuances of conceptual meanings are questioned.Wow, this is one of those posts that made me think. I never saw it that way, but you are propably right! Is this distinction common knowledge in the US? - Thank you very much for your post!
Now I wonder why "classical liberals" see the negative in rights, while "social liberals" see them in a positive way.
Could it be that ...
... "classical liberals" see rights as a tool that is used, to take things away from them.
... "social liberals" see rights as a tool that is used, to take things away from others.
I'd really like to know who of the "social liberals" in this thread think, that it was them who should solve the systemic problems in society. My impression is that they expect others to change. Their own contribution is limited to pointing out that others must solve the systemic problems.
However I have great personal respect for those (few) leftists who understand by "equal rights" that they themselves would have to give up something. Thus I ask the left leaning people in this thread: What would you give up in order to fight systemic racism or other inequalities?
Foucault once said that those who cry out for justice are not really about justice. It is only a catchword to gain an advantage in the struggle for power. There propably lies at least some truth in this.
Also I want to add, that (in my humble opinion) this thread has again turned into an exciting discussion because the nuances of conceptual meanings are questioned.