F Champ Receives Lifetime Ban, Racism in the FGC/USA, and Other Prevalent Social Discussions

[Cashual]

Honestly, I feel a lot of you here have gone off the deep end. I literally only said that I'm not making decisions based on skin colour. Which is the entire definition of a non-racist. Yet people here think that makes me racist. Am I missing something? Is my English that bad?

“I’m colorblind! I don’t see color!”

No one asked you for money, quit making shit up. I’m a BLM supporter, and I’m only asking you to condemn racists but according to you that’s “going off the deep end”.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

(1) Yes, but the problem is the payee has no choice in the matter with regards to the quality of education, healthcare and social services --> They are locked in to whatever the government comes up with. That's why I would rather not have other people pay for my government-issued education, healthcare and social services --> lower taxes, on the other hand, let me keep more of the money I have earned, which then allows me to decide for myself what kind of education, healthcare and social services I want to get for me/my family.

(2) I disagree. More financial freedom doesn't mean that you don't have needs and responsibilities to take care of. More financial freedom means you get to decide when and how to financially address those needs and responsibilities, rather than the government deciding for you. Also, going to college is not 100% necessary, it depends on who you are and what your goals are.

I don't know anyone complaining about the quality of Western European education and healthcare.

The reason 'quality' is an issue in America is that it's privatized and all over the map. This notion that you have to pay more to get something 'quality' is strictly capitalist and doesn't actually work that way in the countries with the highest quality of education or health care.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-amenable-mortality-measured-by-healthcare-access-and-quality-index-2016

As you can see our health system in the US scores lower on almost every major quality indicator that than of comparable countries (amenable mortality, speed of access to a doctor, rate of errors, etc).

We are ahead only in a couple of areas (like Breast Cancer prevention) and behind in nearly all the big ones (like preventable deaths overall).

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019

 

[Cashual]

so let me get this straight we cant say Xlivesmatters anymore or we canceled if we arent black? Banned sentenced world wide. gotcha

What would be the point ? Anyone who says it xliveamatter is doing it to antagonize or minimize/trivialize BLM. It’s always in bad faith.

say it all you want...that’s your right. And it’s everyone else’s right to think you’re an idiot and ignore you/not let you participate in things they organizez

 

[ItsYaBoi]

(1) Yes, but the problem is the payee has no choice in the matter with regards to the quality of education, healthcare and social services --> They are locked in to whatever the government comes up with. That's why I would rather not have other people pay for my government-issued education, healthcare and social services --> lower taxes, on the other hand, let me keep more of the money I have earned, which then allows me to decide for myself what kind of education, healthcare and social services I want to get for me/my family.

(2) I disagree. More financial freedom doesn't mean that you don't have needs and responsibilities to take care of. More financial freedom means you get to decide when and how to financially address those needs and responsibilities, rather than the government deciding for you. Also, going to college is not 100% necessary, it depends on who you are and what your goals are.

At least you would have these systems in place for everybody, unlike how it currently is in the US where you'd get absolutely FUCKED with debt or pay a ridiculous amount for insurance (more than you would with the amount of tax that goes toward such things). You're also assuming that all of these services are bad/sub par by default - they're not. You'd also be giving everybody a fair fucking chance across the board, why wouldn't you want that?

The UK for example, whilst not perfect (far from it, for a multitude of other reasons) has fantastic, free (at point of use) healthcare for EVERYBODY with the NHS. Utterly fantastic, despite a government being in control who are actively trying to fuck it over so that hey can follow a privatised healthcare system across the board similar to the US (they're conservatives, so you can correctly assume why they're doing this - gotta get dat money).

And pssstt, guess what you can do in the UK if you want 'premium' care and don't trust the NHS (for whatever reason)? You can pay for private healthcare. The people that can afford to pay for private healthcare tend not to need to worry about the measly amount of their tax that will be going towards the NHS.

 

[Cashual]

I spoke up because frankly im fucking tired of being labeled a nazi and a racist simply because im not outside taking a knee, of because Im choosing to distance myself entirely from these clusterfuck protests. That's not even considering the damage done in terms of the pandemic but that's another point entirely.

As far as mocking goes, anybody who's been here long enough and has seen me post, knows i like to antagonize people. If you read my earlier posts in this thread you'll see what i said in action. People are getting too riled up over superficial shit on social media. I never made light of racism, i never claimed it doesn't exist.

Im getting guilt tripped for my so called "white privilege" when I have been through my share of shit. Let me tell you, it's shit like this that's gonna end up pushing people to the alt-right, and that's why I want no part in any of it.

Riling people up just because at a time like this “just to provoke a reaction” and “don’t expect help from anyone but yourself, after all no one helped me!” Makes you unequivocally an asshole and ignorant.

 

[mrapchem]

In this article by the Pew Research Center, which Wikipedia describes as a "nonpartisan think tank", Rakesh Kochhar, a senior researcher, writes that "the disposable (after-tax) incomes of middle-class households... in 10 Western European countries in the study trailed well behind the American middle class." The only exception is Luxembourg, which the author describes as "a virtual city-state where the median income was $71,799" in 2010. The income was $60,844 in America in the same year. The author acknowledges that the middle class in America "may be smaller", though. I lived in Europe half my live and I visited Germany last summer. I can anecdotally confirm the numbers based on my middle-class relatives and friends who reside in Cologne and Stuttgart. I would concede the argument that the reason they make less money is because they pay more in income taxes for social and educational services such as universal healthcare and free college, but I believe that Americans have more freedom to spend their money however they wish because of less taxation. You can view tax rates for most European countries here. As you can see, the tax rate is almost as high as 60% in some countries. I am not sure that you can convince the majority of Americans of any race to pay such amount in taxes.



You have the same rights as any white person in America. You mentioned the Constitution, in which the 14th amendment grants any American citizen equal protection of the laws. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination based on race, color, sex, religion, or national origin.

I won't be replying to the first comment because several people have already stated what I was going to say.

As for the other comment about me already having the same rights - I have those rights on paper. However, in real life, mine and other Black and Brown peoples' rights are definitely not as equally recognized as our White brethren. You can look at any system you want - Black peoples' right are constantly threatened or even ignored altogether in ways that White people don't have to deal with. Any suggestion otherwise is ignoring the facts on the ground not only over the course of America's history, but today.

Breonna Taylor's rights were completely ignored and it cost her her life. Philando Castle's right to legally carry a gun got him killed on Facebook Live in front of his girlfriend and child, yet White protestors armed with AR-15s can storm a government building without so much as a finger wag from police.

Speaking of rights, in my immediate family I was the first person born that had all of his rights granted to him on paper from birth. My mom was born in 1965, meaning she would have not been able to integrate with White students if she were going to school the year she were born. My older aunts still remember segregation because they were little girls/teenagers while in the midst of it. Nearly every Black family in the country can attest to this.

It's not just Black people; Southwestern Latinx people are stopped by police and asked for their papers in a brazen violation of the 4th Amendment and if they can't produce those papers, ICE is sent to deal with them. Japanese Americans were literally rounded up and placed in internment camps during WW2 - violating their 4th Amendment rights also. Muslim Americans were denied re-entry back into their own country, the United States, due to Trump's executive order and was only reversed by circuit courts. There are so many more examples like this where people of color have their sovereignty and dignity completely disheveled in ways that White people never have.

I'm not saying that White people should deal with it too - I'm saying that it should never happen to any group of people at all.

 

[Agilaz]

Riling people up just because at a time like this “just to provoke a reaction” and “don’t expect help from anyone but yourself, after all no one helped me!” Makes you unequivocally an asshole and ignorant.

K

You can stop replying to my posts cause I'm not really reading your replies, I've been done with this thread for a while

 

[Ram]

I don't know anyone complaining about the quality of Western European education and healthcare.

The reason 'quality' is an issue in America is that it's privatized and all over the map. This notion that you have to pay more to get something 'quality' is strictly capitalist and doesn't actually work that way in the countries with the highest quality of education or health care.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-amenable-mortality-measured-by-healthcare-access-and-quality-index-2016

As you can see our health system in the US scores lower on almost every major quality indicator that than of comparable countries (amenable mortality, speed of access to a doctor, rate of errors, etc).

We are ahead only in a couple of areas (like Breast Cancer prevention) and behind in nearly all the big ones (like preventable deaths overall).

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019

I think quality is, and should be, an issue everywhere. Just like if I want to get higher quality food at the grocery store, I know that it will cost me more, but that is a choice I can make.

With regards to the links you provided, I will have a look and get back to you.

 

[Cashual]

To me, this is a pretty simple one. If I emailed my whole company with what he blasted to the world, I'd lose my corporate network access within the hour.

I know a lot of the resistance comes from criticisms of cancel culture and all that, but that argument is predicated on people punishing other people's potentially-offensive-but-good-faith missteps, or digging up things people said years ago in a different social climate and roasting them for social "style points". This isn't that. What this guy posted was obviously meant to piss people off, and he only wanted to "be better" when the kitchen got too hot. This isn't like the coming of some brand new social media cancer that's ruining people's lives through PC. It's an example of someone losing their job because they said a fucked up thing in a public forum. It's a tale as old as time.

Great, nuanced post and I totally agree. Cancel culture/is a problem in its own right, but that’s not what’s happening with fchamp

 

[Cashual]

K

You can stop replying to my posts cause I'm not really reading your replies, I've been done with this thread for a while

Good for you, I’m reading them for the first time and I’m stunned how god awful your posts are. It’s funny, your English is great, your thinking is the problem.

Go ahead and block me bud, because just like you I can post whatever I want, so if you don’t want to be reminded of the time you reeled off a dozen awful posts on TYM about an issue you know nothing about, unfollow the thread, delete your posts, or block everyone that reads your comments for the first time and goes “holy shit....what an idiot”.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I wish we would have universal health care but I also wish everyone born without a health condition wouldn't be fat as fuck and make everyone have to pay for their type 2 diabetes insulin, amputations, and basically for them committing suicide by food.

 

[Ram]

At least you would have these systems in place for everybody, unlike how it currently is in the US where you'd get absolutely FUCKED with debt or pay a ridiculous amount for insurance (more than you would with the amount of tax that goes toward such things). You're also assuming that all of these services are bad/sub par by default - they're not. You'd also be giving everybody a fair fucking chance across the board, why wouldn't you want that?

The UK for example, whilst not perfect (far from it, for a multitude of other reasons) has fantastic, free (at point of use) healthcare for EVERYBODY with the NHS. Utterly fantastic, despite a government being in control who are actively trying to fuck it over so that hey can follow a privatised healthcare system across the board similar to the US (they're conservatives, so you can correctly assume why they're doing this - gotta get dat money).

And pssstt, guess what you can do in the UK if you want 'premium' care and don't trust the NHS (for whatever reason)? You can pay for private healthcare. The people that can afford to pay for private healthcare tend not to need to worry about the measly amount of their tax that will be going towards the NHS.

"You're also assuming that all of these services are bad/sub par by default - they're not."
Goodness/badness of a service is up to the user of the service to decide. If you and I are provided a service, and I think it's good and you think it's bad, I don't think either of us are right. Different strokes for different folks.

"You'd also be giving everybody a fair fucking chance across the board, why wouldn't you want that?"
I don't think it's fair that person A is asked to pay for person B, C, and D's stuff.

"The UK for example, whilst not perfect (far from it, for a multitude of other reasons) has fantastic, free (at point of use) healthcare for EVERYBODY with the NHS"
See my first point.

"And pssstt, guess what you can do in the UK if you want 'premium' care and don't trust the NHS (for whatever reason)? You can pay for private healthcare."
Great, I love this.

"The people that can afford to pay for private healthcare tend not to need to worry about the measly amount of their tax that will be going towards the NHS."
This, I don't love. I don't think it's up to you or up to me to decide whether someone else should or should not worry about how much money they pay in taxes. I only have interest in my own bank account, no one elses.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I think quality is, and should be, an issue everywhere. Just like if I want to get higher quality food at the grocery store, I know that it will cost me more, but that is a choice I can make.

I don't know why you'd want it to make an issue, when you can get quality well above the standard of US care in numerous other comparable by paying the same amount as everyone else.

Everyone should have access to quality health care. It should be a basic human right in a first-world country, not something that is gated off from certain people by income.

Also, quality of food at the grocery store is something driven by supply and demand, not by the actual value of the food, in many cases. For example, I can get much higher quality produce in Europe at a lower cost than in the US, because there's a better supply chain for it there.

In the US, the prices for 'quality' food are driven artificially high by the market and farming structure, which prioritizes mass-produced food that has shallow qualities of appearance over things like actual taste and health. People pay what the market is willing to accept, and most Americans are not educated on this, which allows them to be taken advantage of.

 

[Agilaz]

Good for you, I’m reading them for the first time and I’m stunned how god awful your posts are. It’s funny, your English is great, your thinking is the problem.

Go ahead and block me bud, because just like you I can post whatever I want, so if you don’t want to be reminded of the time you reeled off a dozen awful posts on TYM about an issue you know nothing about, unfollow the thread, delete your posts, or block everyone that reads your comments for the first time and goes “holy shit....what an idiot”.

I generally don't block people over disagreements, in fact in all the years I've been on TYM I don't think I have blocked a single person.

I'm just pointing out that your angry ranting won't get me to engage with this topic again. Call me names, call me a racist so you can get it off your chest, I really don't give a shit anymore.

Getting lectured for not giving preferential treatment to a certain skin colour is absurd, and calling me a racist has literally no meaning when BLM has openly racist individuals like Yusra Khogali among their ranks.

If you wanna keep virtue signaling, go nuts, I'm off to do something productive with my time

 

[Ram]

I don't know why you'd want it to make an issue, when you can get quality well above the standard of US care in numerous other comparable by paying the same amount as everyone else.

Everyone should have access to quality health care. It should be a basic human right in a first-world country, not something that is gated off from certain people by income.

Also, quality of food at the grocery store is something driven by supply and demand, not by the actual cost of the food, in many cases. For example, I can get much higher quality produce in Europe at a lower cost than in the US, because there's a better supply chain for it there.

"I don't know why you'd want it to make an issue, when you can get quality well above the standard of US care in numerous other comparable by paying the same amount as everyone else."
Like I mentioned in reply to someone else, I, as the user of the good/service, should be one deciding if the quality is good enough for me/my family. What I feel you are saying is "I, CrimsonShadow, and a lot of other people are telling you that this good/service is of high enough quality for you, why are you resisting?" With all due respect, I would like to be the one who decides if the good/service is of high enough quality for me/my family.

"Everyone should have access to quality health care. It should be a basic human right in a first-world country, not something that is gated off from certain people by income."
Well, if healthcare is socialized, I agree that everyone has access to some quality of healthcare. But again, if I want healthcare of a different quality for me/my family, I should be allowed to get it. Again, it seems like you and some other people are deciding what quality level of healthcare is needed for everyone. I think individuals/individual family units should be making that call.

 

[Swindle]

I really miss when this thread was just taking huge dumps on FChamp.
Good times.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

"Everyone should have access to quality health care. It should be a basic human right in a first-world country, not something that is gated off from certain people by income."
Well, if healthcare is socialized, I agree that everyone has access to some quality of healthcare. But again, if I want healthcare of a different quality for me/my family, I should be allowed to get it. Again, it seems like you and some other people are deciding what quality level of healthcare is needed for everyone. I think individuals/individual family units should be making that call.

Absolutely not, because then you can only get healthcare that is as good as the money you have left over to spend on it, and if you can't afford health care, then you have none. That is absolutely one of the biggest problems with health care in this country.

This notion that rich people should get better care than everyone else, and poor people should get poor health care, and that your income should be able to determine the quality of care you receive overall, is old-world and incredibly silly compared to the rest of modernized society.

 

[Marlow]

I don't think it's fair that person A is asked to pay for person B, C, and D's stuff.

When person A makes 100 times the salary of person B, C, and D, I think it's fine. Especially if the stuff they're being asked to help pay for is to provide basic needs like healthcare, education, social security, and safety net programs so that kids and the elderly aren't dying of starvation.

lower taxes, on the other hand, let me keep more of the money I have earned, which then allows me to decide for myself what kind of education, healthcare and social services I want to get for me/my family.

Yes and no. A lot of the time your choices on schools, healthcare, services, groceries, are tied into the region you or your family can afford to live in. This also assumes that there's a perfect supply/demand and price relationship for these services, and that wealth and income is always closely tied to someone's actual value and production, which I don't think is true.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

"You're also assuming that all of these services are bad/sub par by default - they're not."
Goodness/badness of a service is up to the user of the service to decide. If you and I are provided a service, and I think it's good and you think it's bad, I don't think either of us are right. Different strokes for different folks.

"You'd also be giving everybody a fair fucking chance across the board, why wouldn't you want that?"
I don't think it's fair that person A is asked to pay for person B, C, and D's stuff.

"The UK for example, whilst not perfect (far from it, for a multitude of other reasons) has fantastic, free (at point of use) healthcare for EVERYBODY with the NHS"
See my first point.

"And pssstt, guess what you can do in the UK if you want 'premium' care and don't trust the NHS (for whatever reason)? You can pay for private healthcare."
Great, I love this.

"The people that can afford to pay for private healthcare tend not to need to worry about the measly amount of their tax that will be going towards the NHS."
This, I don't love. I don't think it's up to you or up to me to decide whether someone else should or should not worry about how much money they pay in taxes. I only have interest in my own bank account, no one elses.

Indeed, and guess what? You're not FORCED to use the NHS. You can still go private in the UK if you've had a bad experience with the NHS. But on the whole, through numerous surveys and conducted polls, the UK OVERWHELMINGLY supports the NHS and think it provides great care. So yes, you can get a good consensus across the board on whether something is inherently deemed good or bad. That DOESN'T mean bad cases don't happen, but they are outliers. This is basic statistics when taking medians into account.

Then I'm sorry to be blunt, but you're incredibly selfish. The amount of tax in the UK that goes directly to the NHS is TINY. And this then covers everybody in the country, EVERYBODY, to have healthcare available to them free at the point of use. Why the fuck wouldn't you want that? It is just so selfish to me to think otherwise. Sure, everybody thinks about themselves first. Not going to lie, I'd rather somebody else go bankrupt than me for example if it came down to it. But you will not go bankrupt by paying that extra bit of tax (and as Europe does tax, it's progressive tax on income, meaning it doesn't fuck over those who struggle to get by anyway). However, the system you advocate ruins peoples lives and puts them into serious debt because they wanted to live?

 

[Marlow]

But again, if I want healthcare of a different quality for me/my family, I should be allowed to get it.

What happens when someone has cancer, and needs treatments which cost $20,000, and they only have $10,000 in savings?

 

[Ram]

What happens when someone has cancer, and needs treatments which cost $20,000, and they only have $10,000 in savings?

They deal with the consequences of their actions. Also, with things like Kickstarter and GoFundMe, they can try and raise finances that way.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

Absolutely not, because then you can only get healthcare that is as good as the money you have left over to spend on it, and if you can't afford health care, then you have none. That is absolutely one of the biggest problems with health care in this country.

This notion that rich people should get better care than everyone else, and poor people should get poor health care, and that your income should be able to determine the quality of care you receive overall, is old-world and incredibly silly compared to the rest of modernized society.

This.

If you followed the UK model for example, everybody would get more than adequate healthcare across the board. Not quality adjacent to your income, but EVERYBODY would at least get the bare minimum - which is a very good system of healthcare.

If you earn more, you still have the choice to go private and get healthcare that you deem worthy of your income/economic status. Providing healthcare for everybody across the board does not eliminate the possibility of paying for a 'premium' healthcare service. Both can exist and both do exist in many, many countries.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

They deal with the consequences of their actions.

And there we have it. We've got to the crux of the issue.

Money over people. True capitalism, in its rawest form.

It's fucking callous in my opinion. No offense.

 

[Marlow]

They deal with the consequences of their actions.

So they die from cancer, which they may have gotten through no fault of their own, because they couldn't save up for the $20K payment, again very possibly through no fault of their own. That seems like a very cold society to be a part of.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

And there we have it. We've got to the crux of the issue.

Money over people. True capitalism, in its rawest form.

Fucking callous.

If I smoke myself to death you should pay for it?

Assuming they developed it through their own fault his logic is sound.