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F Champ Receives Lifetime Ban, Racism in the FGC/USA, and Other Prevalent Social Discussions

mrapchem

Noob
Wanted to say thanks to @mrapchem for communicating my wishes here

(https://testyourmight.com/threads/f-champ-recives-lifetime-global-ban-by-capcom-from-all-pro-tour-and-sfl-events.73274/page-15#post-2641214)

in a way I myself couldn't articulate, mostly because I lack awareness about how big businesses work and contribute to/are affected by the problem.

Also @trufenix relax. I think most people ITT decry F Champ's "joke" except the skinhead with the Frost avatar.
I'm happy that I was able to do this.
 

NHDR

Noob
Like, seriously, look at this malarky. Half a page up. This sentence says "I am not saying black people suffer because they aren't hard working, I am saying Asians can be quite successful because they are hard working."

PEOPLE LIKED IT. Like, this kind of racism escapist nonesense is even on the news now, and mother fuckers who are supposed to be "helping us" eat it up. They think this doesn't offend us because you say "I'm not indir-fucking rectly saying it, I'm just round about saying it."

Who the fuck even are the Black people in this sentence? Who are the Asians? What about blasian kids, where do they land in this stupid fucking equation?

Fuck me.
Say what? The question asked why was only about Asians. I answered based on what little I know of Asians and their culture.

The only reason I specifically said I wasn't indirectly implying that Black people did not work hard is because I wanted to avoid exactly what you have accused me of.

I have nothing but love for Black people. I'm gonna leave it at that and you can infer or believe what you will.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I wasn’t putting you down at all if that’s what you’re insinuating. You’ve actually been okay in this thread, unlike some (that sub dubs bellend for example).

I’ve explained it - albeit in a heated manner. This is just a sensitive topic for a lot of people. I’m sure that you can handle the odd naughty word here and there amongst the discussion though my dude, s’all good.

Also, I don’t @ people when they get notifications for when people have posted in the thread. So many people posting, I don’t keep track of names. So nah, I’m aight.
All good man appreciate the explanation
 

666 I HazeOner

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
When are black people going to speak up about other black people degrading their own culture & people? Or is that not an issue?
You can stand up with your fist all you want, but things have to change in their own communities too. You can not cancel out all Caucasian and Asian who said stupid shit without speaking out on your own kind too.
These days there are multi-millionaire black people who got rich degrading their own fucking kind. You can't turn on the radio and not hear a song about degrading women/lgbtq or shooting another black brother. I know your struggles, believe me, but I also know that there is a lot of cancer in your own community too.
Fuck dudes, I really hated writing this. In my world we are all human and I don't like to think in "kinds" or talk about your "own community" but if people keep glorifying people that act like animals, the struggle will never go away.

And to all the white bitches who want to cancel everyone because they said something "racist" in public, look at yourself first. Many of you probably said stupid shit before. It's not a reason to fuck someone over, you guys start to sound like fascists yourself.
BTW, I know what I am talking about. I was Antifa myself and spent most of my youth and early 20's in squads but once I got older I quickly learned that the more extreme you go, the more you start doing the same shit that you hated and fought against in the first place. You can point out that someone said something stupid and have a discussion, but attacking them and make them loose their jobs? GTFO
I have friends who used to be neo-nazi skins but I would never cancel them because of their past, that is one of the lowest things you can do and you'll only create more hate in most cases. Fighting hate with hate is for silly bitches and it is the same what all these fucking racists do.

One more thing... If you think that only whites can be racists you are terribly wrong. I try to travel a lot and spent a lot of time in SE Asia & Africa and yes, many Africans, Asians, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews practice some form of racism/bigotry too. Zulu people against African refugees in South Africa; Buddhists killing Muslims in Thailand; Thais against Farrangs (the n word for whites); the whole society in India (class system) is based on racism; Jews for all sake, who kill muslims in Gaza;...
It will never change if we keep on breeding like rabbits. Communities/cultures have no space to expand anymore resulting in even more "us versus them". I think the human race is doomed at this stage as our planet is getting exhausted. Wait until clean water starts to become a problem because of global warming and mass pollution, lol.

@M2Dave Funny that no one seems to respond when you post an article about the multiple shootings/deaths in Chicago. Denial much?
 
When are black people going to speak up about other black people degrading their own culture & people? Or is that not an issue?
You can stand up with your fist all you want, but things have to change in their own communities too. You can not cancel out all Caucasian and Asian who said stupid shit without speaking out on your own kind too.
These days there are multi-millionaire black people who got rich degrading their own fucking kind. You can't turn on the radio and not hear a song about degrading women/lgbtq or shooting another black brother. I know your struggles, believe me, but I also know that there is a lot of cancer in your own community too.
Fuck dudes, I really hated writing this. In my world we are all human and I don't like to think in "kinds" or talk about your "own community" but if people keep glorifying people that act like animals, the struggle will never go away.

And to all the white bitches who want to cancel everyone because they said something "racist" in public, look at yourself first. Many of you probably said stupid shit before. It's not a reason to fuck someone over, you guys start to sound like fascists yourself.
BTW, I know what I am talking about. I was Antifa myself and spent most of my youth and early 20's in squads but once I got older I quickly learned that the more extreme you go, the more you start doing the same shit that you hated and fought against in the first place. You can point out that someone said something stupid and have a discussion, but attacking them and make them loose their jobs? GTFO
I have friends who used to be neo-nazi skins but I would never cancel them because of their past, that is one of the lowest things you can do and you'll only create more hate in most cases. Fighting hate with hate is for silly bitches and it is the same what all these fucking racists do.

One more thing... If you think that only whites can be racists you are terribly wrong. I try to travel a lot and spent a lot of time in SE Asia & Africa and yes, many Africans, Asians, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews practice some form of racism/bigotry too. Zulu people against African refugees in South Africa; Buddhists killing Muslims in Thailand; Thais against Farrangs (the n word for whites); the whole society in India (class system) is based on racism; Jews for all sake, who kill muslims in Gaza;...
It will never change if we keep on breeding like rabbits. Communities/cultures have no space to expand anymore resulting in even more "us versus them". I think the human race is doomed at this stage as our planet is getting exhausted. Wait until clean water starts to become a problem because of global warming and mass pollution, lol.

@M2Dave Funny that no one seems to respond when you post an article about the multiple shootings/deaths in Chicago. Denial much?
Good post. Everything is about what everyone else needs to be doing and at no point is personal responsibility even a minor talking point. It doesn't even factor into the equation.
 
If you think that only whites can be racists you are terribly wrong.
I think it's bizarre this even has to be said, but everyone has the capacity for racism, and anyone pretending it's only on one particular side truly doesn't understand the core issue at all.

You can point out that someone said something stupid and have a discussion, but attacking them and make them loose their jobs? GTFO
While I agree that hunting people down and ruining them for something they said is wrong, in the context of FChamp he straight up broke the rules of pro tour and combined with his very consisent history of being a shitty person I think the response to him being unable to compete is perfectly fair. If my place of work has a zero tolerance rule for racism and bigotry, and I go and make a bad watermelon joke during an extremely volatile and racially charged current events situation there's no way I could be surprised about losing my job for it.
FChamp had it coming.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, etc.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
What do I have to answer when you say you're confused by my post. If I say "THATS RACIST" and you say "ITS NOT" and I say "YES THE FUCK IT IS" annd it offended me and you say "thats too vague" what am I supposed to do next?
You literally have me no context and just told me I was part of the problem. I don't see that as me telling you anything wasn't racist. I asked. I tried.

When are black people going to speak up about other black people degrading their own culture & people? Or is that not an issue?
You can stand up with your fist all you want, but things have to change in their own communities too. You can not cancel out all Caucasian and Asian who said stupid shit without speaking out on your own kind too.
These days there are multi-millionaire black people who got rich degrading their own fucking kind. You can't turn on the radio and not hear a song about degrading women/lgbtq or shooting another black brother. I know your struggles, believe me, but I also know that there is a lot of cancer in your own community too.
Fuck dudes, I really hated writing this. In my world we are all human and I don't like to think in "kinds" or talk about your "own community" but if people keep glorifying people that act like animals, the struggle will never go away.

And to all the white bitches who want to cancel everyone because they said something "racist" in public, look at yourself first. Many of you probably said stupid shit before. It's not a reason to fuck someone over, you guys start to sound like fascists yourself.
BTW, I know what I am talking about. I was Antifa myself and spent most of my youth and early 20's in squads but once I got older I quickly learned that the more extreme you go, the more you start doing the same shit that you hated and fought against in the first place. You can point out that someone said something stupid and have a discussion, but attacking them and make them loose their jobs? GTFO
I have friends who used to be neo-nazi skins but I would never cancel them because of their past, that is one of the lowest things you can do and you'll only create more hate in most cases. Fighting hate with hate is for silly bitches and it is the same what all these fucking racists do.

One more thing... If you think that only whites can be racists you are terribly wrong. I try to travel a lot and spent a lot of time in SE Asia & Africa and yes, many Africans, Asians, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews practice some form of racism/bigotry too. Zulu people against African refugees in South Africa; Buddhists killing Muslims in Thailand; Thais against Farrangs (the n word for whites); the whole society in India (class system) is based on racism; Jews for all sake, who kill muslims in Gaza;...
It will never change if we keep on breeding like rabbits. Communities/cultures have no space to expand anymore resulting in even more "us versus them". I think the human race is doomed at this stage as our planet is getting exhausted. Wait until clean water starts to become a problem because of global warming and mass pollution, lol.

@M2Dave Funny that no one seems to respond when you post an article about the multiple shootings/deaths in Chicago. Denial much?
While I agree with @FonicSox that an enormous amount of things getting better lies in personal responsibility, there's also a lot here that I agree with you about. Mainly the levels of racism and xenophobia on a global scale and the atrocious things that happen elsewhere; and on a personal IRL level, people I've known for ages parading themselves as cancel culture vultures for attention, when they themselves have more sexual harassment skeletons in the closet than they can count, and are only years removed from being full-blown bigots vehemently opposed to Obama becoming President.

Also, as far as Chicago is concerned, I feel like it's fallen into the same vein as Flint and Detroit in Michigan, in that it's been so problematic and violent for so long that it's desensitized people to the situation. Definitely a place I'd personally like to learn more about just so I can contribute usefully to the talks, since I'm certain it isn't the last we'll hear of such things there.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I'm happy that I was able to do this.
Bro, on a completely off-topic and lighthearted note because it's Pinot Grigio night and I'm feeling feelings, you've enlightened me to so much stuff that I feel compelled to tip my hat and say thankya. If I succeed in running for President of the United States of Mortal Kombat, I'd love for you to be my Vice President; the total opposite of Dick Cheney who can help get shit done when I'm hopelessly in over my head.

In all seriousness, though...for all the differing views we all have had, and the garbage as all fuck circumstances this debate has happened under, I just want to acknowledge how happy and proud and thankful it makes me as part of this forum and community that this debate is being had, and we're all here hashing this shit out in the name of things getting better, and it's 99% been kept civil and sane and mature and intelligent and all that jazz.
Subjects and arguments like this, being part of the fight for progress, it's all been a major part of my life and my identity since I was 12 and my social studies teacher, Mr. strange, in 7th grade in MS 80 in the Bronx, sat me down and explained to me all the logistics of Bush V Gore. That 20 minute conversation set my entire life on a whole different path. So, seeing it unfold here, and just being able to feel comfortable knowing that we can come together like this in dark and fucked up times and HAVE the back and forth, hammer home the points, force each other to think outside the box but in a respectable way aimed at progress rather than just being right... it's fucking uplifting. And from my own personal perspective, I just wanted to thank you guys and maybe provide some positive feels for the discourse.

Now, enough with me hijacking shit with my feelings. Let's get back to the fray, because I also love having people to argue about stuff like this with who don't curl up into cowardice and rage when they can't win the argument, and that doesn't happen often.
 

mrapchem

Noob
Bro, on a completely off-topic and lighthearted note because it's Pinot Grigio night and I'm feeling feelings, you've enlightened me to so much stuff that I feel compelled to tip my hat and say thankya. If I succeed in running for President of the United States of Mortal Kombat, I'd love for you to be my Vice President; the total opposite of Dick Cheney who can help get shit done when I'm hopelessly in over my head.

In all seriousness, though...for all the differing views we all have had, and the garbage as all fuck circumstances this debate has happened under, I just want to acknowledge how happy and proud and thankful it makes me as part of this forum and community that this debate is being had, and we're all here hashing this shit out in the name of things getting better, and it's 99% been kept civil and sane and mature and intelligent and all that jazz.
Subjects and arguments like this, being part of the fight for progress, it's all been a major part of my life and my identity since I was 12 and my social studies teacher, Mr. strange, in 7th grade in MS 80 in the Bronx, sat me down and explained to me all the logistics of Bush V Gore. That 20 minute conversation set my entire life on a whole different path. So, seeing it unfold here, and just being able to feel comfortable knowing that we can come together like this in dark and fucked up times and HAVE the back and forth, hammer home the points, force each other to think outside the box but in a respectable way aimed at progress rather than just being right... it's fucking uplifting. And from my own personal perspective, I just wanted to thank you guys and maybe provide some positive feels for the discourse.

Now, enough with me hijacking shit with my feelings. Let's get back to the fray, because I also love having people to argue about stuff like this with who don't curl up into cowardice and rage when they can't win the argument, and that doesn't happen often.
I thank you for your kind words.

It seems to be no coincidence that I'm also from the Empire State, though I'm from Rochester, which is way upstate damn near Canada! Even though I have seen some highly dubious comments in this thread, I am happy that anyone that reads all of this can gain an thorough education about the history of this country and it's racist itinerary. And we're supposed to be just gamers - grown ass men and women spending hours doing something that society still thinks is exclusively for kids.

As I've gotten older, I realize that the only reason that any progress has happened at all throughout the history of this country is that normal people became sick and tired of being sick and tired. They got fed up with the status quo and decide to collectivize their power toward cultural and political change. It's obvious now that it's our generation's turn.

Having said that, there's always people who are quite content being fed the garbage that The Matrix feeds them and will fight to defend it. Our job isn't to convince those folks - they choose to dwell in the Sunken Place and won't be told otherwise. No, our job is to win over those folks that are ambivalently on the fence, too afraid to become radical, yet not satisfied with normalcy either. Once we've won them over, then we demand policies that are decidedly anti-racist and enhance the quality of life for all Americans, starting with those that are Black and Brown.

But you're right about one thing - I ain't backin' down for shit. We need to be as rock-ribbed as the far-right wingers are, if not more so.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
You want to know my solutions?

A.) Reparations for all Black people in this country - not merely a one-time check given to people, but rather a reparations fund that is used to subsidize small business loans, first-time homeowners payments, college costs, campaign costs and other costly expenses.

B.) End the War on Drugs - drug cases are one of the primary methods of Black incarceration, so making them legal, taxed and heavily regulated not only kill the underground drug market, it stops so many people from being arrested needlessly.

C.) Release all non-violent drug offenders and expunge their records - this directly ties in with B).

D.) End Citizens United - when corporations are not allowed to buy politicians, it will create a domino effect in solving a bunch of other problems, including issues that affect Black people

E.) Universal Healthcare through a single-payer system - I don't need to say much except it's a much better system than using a rapacious third-party middle man

F.) End qualified immunity for police and institute liability insurance for anyone being detained/arrested - currently, it is all but impossible to convict any police officer when they kill anyone, even if they were unarmed. This will put a stop to that trend, plus it will force police officers to avoid using excessive/lethal force unless it is absolutely necessary

G.) Subsidize low taxpayer-funded schools - we've discussed how richer areas have better funded schools. This would take the poorer schools and match their funding to the richest schools in their area, removing the disparity between them

H.) End private prisons and youth detention centers - privately-owned prisons get free labor from the prisoners, which incentivizes them to get more people in prison

I.) Revise the 13th Amendment to completely remove the option of slavery under any and all circumstances - watch "13th" to see what I'm saying

J.) Immediately withdraw all occupying troops and cut the military budget by 50% - America wastes billions of dollars fighting imperial wars. Putting an end to this would bring that money back home

K.) Seize the assets of all corporations that outsource or shield funds in off-shore tax havens - corporations are literally keeping away trillions of dollars by hiring super-cheap laborers offshore and by storing profits overseas to avoid taxation. If Joe Schmo has to pay taxes on all of his income, so too should Amazon and other corporations

L.) Increase the corporate tax rate to 50%, make it permanent and close all loopholes - corporations have received copious amounts of unnecessary tax breaks/tax cuts for decades now and have seen their profits skyrocket. This reclaims some of that money so that they can still be profitable, but re-distributes wealth to the middle-class and poor
All of your proposals, with the exception of reparations as not all territories had slavery, already exist as official policies in northern and western Europe, where the low and middle class have a lower standard of living than in the United States., which includes people on welfare. In order to pay for universal healthcare, education, and reparations, taxes collected from corporations and the wealthy, which would cause certain repercussions on its own, would provide insufficient funds. The government would also be required to substantially raise taxes on middle-class Americans. Please understand that I am not some screaming conservative who is engaging in fearmongering on Fox News or Talk Radio because taxes have increased by a couple of percentage points. I would gladly and proudly pay a little bit more in taxes so that a poor black child in the ghetto has access to school busing, free lunches, and up-to-date textbooks. However, the middle-class in Germany, for example, does not pay a little bit more in taxes. My cousin who is an unmarried kindergarten teacher earns as much money as I do, but she pays 50% in income taxes, which, in my opinion, is antithetical to hard work, small businesses, and upward social mobility. By contrast, I pay about 22% of federal income taxes and, again, I would not mind paying a little bit more to give equal opportunity to folks who were born under unfortunate circumstances. On the other hand, equal opportunity does not necessarily lead to equality of results, which brings me to Crimson's post.

That's why the body of evidence which shows that people who work equally hard, have similar education, etc., often receive different outcomes based on outward factors like their gender, race, etc. are important. Because once you normalize for all the other factors, there are still massive disparities.
Because I know how much you appreciate facts and statistics, I am going to quote Dr. Thomas Sowell who studied this subject extensively.

"Almost nowhere anywhere in the world, or at any period in history, do you find any society, in which groups that compete openly, end up with the same results." This statement also applies for individuals of the same group (i.e., white people competing against white people) and even twins competing against each other.

In the video below, he also refutes the racist argument that some black people have varying equality of results because of low IQ scores. I encourage everyone to watch because he provides evidence for everything that he preaches.


@M2Dave Funny that no one seems to respond when you post an article about the multiple shootings/deaths in Chicago. Denial much?
As I have posted before, the reality is that the majority of homicides are intraracial, meaning that white people kill white people and black people kill black people. Intraracial murders make a boring news story and an even more boring online article that will not be clicked on. This inconvenient fact also disproves the liberal delusion that most black men die at the hands of racist police officers. If Black Lives Matter genuinely cared about black lives, they would look inward.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I thank you for your kind words.

It seems to be no coincidence that I'm also from the Empire State, though I'm from Rochester, which is way upstate damn near Canada! Even though I have seen some highly dubious comments in this thread, I am happy that anyone that reads all of this can gain an thorough education about the history of this country and it's racist itinerary. And we're supposed to be just gamers - grown ass men and women spending hours doing something that society still thinks is exclusively for kids.

As I've gotten older, I realize that the only reason that any progress has happened at all throughout the history of this country is that normal people became sick and tired of being sick and tired. They got fed up with the status quo and decide to collectivize their power toward cultural and political change. It's obvious now that it's our generation's turn.

Having said that, there's always people who are quite content being fed the garbage that The Matrix feeds them and will fight to defend it. Our job isn't to convince those folks - they choose to dwell in the Sunken Place and won't be told otherwise. No, our job is to win over those folks that are ambivalently on the fence, too afraid to become radical, yet not satisfied with normalcy either. Once we've won them over, then we demand policies that are decidedly anti-racist and enhance the quality of life for all Americans, starting with those that are Black and Brown.

But you're right about one thing - I ain't backin' down for shit. We need to be as rock-ribbed as the far-right wingers are, if not more so.
Absofuckinglutely, my friend.
Black, brown, Asian, Native, women and LGBTQ+, all across the board. We are collectively bigger and stronger than those who want to smother our will, and now is the most poignant and prominent time we've ever had to take the reins.

All of your proposals, with the exception of reparations as not all territories had slavery, already exist as official policies in northern and western Europe, where the low and middle class have a lower standard of living than in the United States., which includes people on welfare. In order to pay for universal healthcare, education, and reparations, taxes collected from corporations and the wealthy, which would cause certain repercussions on its own, would provide insufficient funds. The government would also be required to substantially raise taxes on middle-class Americans. Please understand that I am not some screaming conservative who is engaging in fearmongering on Fox News or Talk Radio because taxes have increased by a couple of percentage points. I would gladly and proudly pay a little bit more in taxes so that a poor black child in the ghetto has access to school busing, free lunches, and up-to-date textbooks. However, the middle-class in Germany, for example, does not pay a little bit more in taxes. My cousin who is an unmarried kindergarten teacher earns as much money as I do, but she pays 50% in income taxes, which, in my opinion, is antithetical to hard work, small businesses, and upward social mobility. By contrast, I pay about 22% of federal income taxes and, again, I would not mind paying a little bit more to give equal opportunity to folks who were born under unfortunate circumstances. On the other hand, equal opportunity does not necessarily lead to equality of results, which brings me to Crimson's post.



Because I know how much you appreciate facts and statistics, I am going to quote Dr. Thomas Sowell who studied this subject extensively.

"Almost nowhere anywhere in the world, or at any period in history, do you find any society, in which groups that compete openly, end up with the same results." This statement also applies for individuals of the same group (i.e., white people competing against white people) and even twins competing against each other.

In the video below, he also refutes the racist argument that some black people have varying equality of results because of low IQ scores. I encourage everyone to watch because he provides evidence for everything that he preaches.



As I have posted before, the reality is that the majority of homicides are intraracial, meaning that white people kill white people and black people kill black people. Intraracial murders make a boring news story and an even more boring online article that will not be clicked on. This inconvenient fact also disproves the liberal delusion that most black men die at the hands of racist police officers. If Black Lives Matter genuinely cared about black lives, they would look inward.
Dave gets drunken appreciation as well, for being the person who says the things that might make people uncomfortable opinion-wise, but does his damndest to be rooted in facts and statistics to back his beliefs up, and has never in all the times I've read his words (outside of his anti-zoning campaign against Smoke) come from a place of disdain or enmity. I am adding BLM to the list along with Chicago of things I need to learn more about so I can have a more accurate frame of reference.

I fucking love Pinot Grigio and intellectual debate over important issues. This is how shit gets done, and sticks in a way that can carry into the future.
 

mrapchem

Noob
When are black people going to speak up about other black people degrading their own culture & people? Or is that not an issue?
You can stand up with your fist all you want, but things have to change in their own communities too. You can not cancel out all Caucasian and Asian who said stupid shit without speaking out on your own kind too.
These days there are multi-millionaire black people who got rich degrading their own fucking kind. You can't turn on the radio and not hear a song about degrading women/lgbtq or shooting another black brother. I know your struggles, believe me, but I also know that there is a lot of cancer in your own community too.
Fuck dudes, I really hated writing this. In my world we are all human and I don't like to think in "kinds" or talk about your "own community" but if people keep glorifying people that act like animals, the struggle will never go away.

And to all the white bitches who want to cancel everyone because they said something "racist" in public, look at yourself first. Many of you probably said stupid shit before. It's not a reason to fuck someone over, you guys start to sound like fascists yourself.
BTW, I know what I am talking about. I was Antifa myself and spent most of my youth and early 20's in squads but once I got older I quickly learned that the more extreme you go, the more you start doing the same shit that you hated and fought against in the first place. You can point out that someone said something stupid and have a discussion, but attacking them and make them loose their jobs? GTFO
I have friends who used to be neo-nazi skins but I would never cancel them because of their past, that is one of the lowest things you can do and you'll only create more hate in most cases. Fighting hate with hate is for silly bitches and it is the same what all these fucking racists do.

One more thing... If you think that only whites can be racists you are terribly wrong. I try to travel a lot and spent a lot of time in SE Asia & Africa and yes, many Africans, Asians, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews practice some form of racism/bigotry too. Zulu people against African refugees in South Africa; Buddhists killing Muslims in Thailand; Thais against Farrangs (the n word for whites); the whole society in India (class system) is based on racism; Jews for all sake, who kill muslims in Gaza;...
It will never change if we keep on breeding like rabbits. Communities/cultures have no space to expand anymore resulting in even more "us versus them". I think the human race is doomed at this stage as our planet is getting exhausted. Wait until clean water starts to become a problem because of global warming and mass pollution, lol.

@M2Dave Funny that no one seems to respond when you post an article about the multiple shootings/deaths in Chicago. Denial much?
Again, nobody is skirting around personal responsibility, but neither that, nor what happened in Chicago has anything to do with the topic of this thread or the threat that Black people face at the hands of police and their fellow non-Black Americans.

I will grant you that anybody in any ethnic group can have racist thoughts and words; even worse, they can engage in racist deeds. However, the question isn't whether an everyday American has internalized racist thoughts(we all have because we exist in a racial-driven society). The question is what will everyday Americans do once they've realized that their tolerance of racist thoughts and ideas has led to innocent people dying at the hands of police.

Most of us have answered that question: we have decided to take the first steps towards becoming anti-racist. Today, this means canceling people who engage in racist behaviors and are unrepentant about it, like F Champ. This means definitively declaring that Black Lives Matter for the world to see. This means removing vestiges of Jim Crow and the Confederacy, such as the Confederate battle flag and changing the name of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben and turning the page forward.

Tomorrow, this will mean implementing policies that prevent the murder of another Breonna Taylor, Tamir Rice and Elijah McClain at the hands of cops. It will mean redistributing wealth from rapacious corporation executives to their workers and the middle class, because a paltry $1200 for adults who lost their jobs months ago from the same government that spent 5 trillion dollars bailing out industries that didn't need it is nothing less than a total embarrassment. It will also mean removing those God-awful cages from border-towns, reuniting those poor babies with their families and putting the entire bastion of ICE workers in jail for imprisoning, starving and sexually assaulting children because America is supposed to be far better than that.

The Black community can sort out its own problems without your 'brilliant' input. But we're gonna need a truly level playing-field first, as promised by our Constitution. No, that level playing field does not exist for Black people and it never has in the history of this nation, but it can - if we want it bad enough.
 
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mrapchem

Noob
All of your proposals, with the exception of reparations as not all territories had slavery, already exist as official policies in northern and western Europe, where the low and middle class have a lower standard of living than in the United States., which includes people on welfare. In order to pay for universal healthcare, education, and reparations, taxes collected from corporations and the wealthy, which would cause certain repercussions on its own, would provide insufficient funds. The government would also be required to substantially raise taxes on middle-class Americans. Please understand that I am not some screaming conservative who is engaging in fearmongering on Fox News or Talk Radio because taxes have increased by a couple of percentage points. I would gladly and proudly pay a little bit more in taxes so that a poor black child in the ghetto has access to school busing, free lunches, and up-to-date textbooks. However, the middle-class in Germany, for example, does not pay a little bit more in taxes. My cousin who is an unmarried kindergarten teacher earns as much money as I do, but she pays 50% in income taxes, which, in my opinion, is antithetical to hard work, small businesses, and upward social mobility. By contrast, I pay about 22% of federal income taxes and, again, I would not mind paying a little bit more to give equal opportunity to folks who were born under unfortunate circumstances. On the other hand, equal opportunity does not necessarily lead to equality of results, which brings me to Crimson's post.
These proposals are indeed common in European countries, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that every single one of the numerous countries that have all the aforementioned policies have a low/middle class that is worse off than in the United States. Europeans in just about every country have free education, free healthcare and a much more vibrant safety net than we have here. You're going to need to deliver numerous reputable receipts to prove that claim - I too have relatives overseas (in London) and they are in no rush at all to move here.

Between ending senseless wars, raising taxes on corporations and the 1% and reclaiming offshore tax money, America could more than pay for any of the proposals I just mentioned. Without having done any of these things, our government was able to cough up 5 trillion dollars to lend to small and not-so-small businesses. Yes, it adds to the debt/deficit, but our government is not a business - it doesn't need to be in the black in order to function. Simply replacing our current healthcare system with Medicare For All would save about 2 trillion over a decade.

The things that America chooses to spend money on and not spend money on are a matter of priorities - it has not prioritized the middle and poor class. The intersection of this fact, along with COVID and the killing of Black people at the hands of cops have all culminated into this collective moment right here where the entire country is in protest.

Let me be clear - nobody is expecting a congruence of outcomes between Black families and everyone else. It is quite obvious that some people will always have access to more money and resources than others, whether due to harder work, inheritances or dumb luck.

What are are expecting is that the color of our skin should not interfere with us being able to meet our needs, obtain some of our wants and accomplish our goals and dreams. My skin color should not be a liability for me; it should not determine whether I get the job, or even if my resume gets looked at, it should not determine how I get treated by the police and it should not determine how easy or difficult it is to do something as simple as voting.

We expect that America will live up to its promises as outlined in the Constitution and grant Black (and every other color) people the exact same rights that White people have in all aspects of American life, or at least the overwhelming majority of them. There shouldn't be any local, state or federal policies in existence that inhibit us from exercising the same rights that White people have. And if/when those policies are created to stop people of color from accessing their rights, they should be put to a swift end at the hands of the local, state or federal government.

We don't ask for equality of outcomes; we demand an equality of expressed rights in the same ways that White people get.

In your last podcast, you said that all you were asking for is basic functionality. I agree 1000%; I also want basic functionality. I want all my rights to be recognized and granted to me just like a White man's. And I want the same thing for everyone else, colored or not.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
These proposals are indeed common in European countries, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that every single one of the numerous countries that have all the aforementioned policies have a low/middle class that is worse off than in the United States. Europeans in just about every country have free education, free healthcare and a much more vibrant safety net than we have here. You're going to need to deliver numerous reputable receipts to prove that claim - I too have relatives overseas (in London) and they are in no rush at all to move here.
In this article by the Pew Research Center, which Wikipedia describes as a "nonpartisan think tank", Rakesh Kochhar, a senior researcher, writes that "the disposable (after-tax) incomes of middle-class households... in 10 Western European countries in the study trailed well behind the American middle class." The only exception is Luxembourg, which the author describes as "a virtual city-state where the median income was $71,799" in 2010. The income was $60,844 in America in the same year. The author acknowledges that the middle class in America "may be smaller", though. I lived in Europe half my live and I visited Germany last summer. I can anecdotally confirm the numbers based on my middle-class relatives and friends who reside in Cologne and Stuttgart. I would concede the argument that the reason they make less money is because they pay more in income taxes for social and educational services such as universal healthcare and free college, but I believe that Americans have more freedom to spend their money however they wish because of less taxation. You can view tax rates for most European countries here. As you can see, the tax rate is almost as high as 60% in some countries. I am not sure that you can convince the majority of Americans of any race to pay such amount in taxes.

In your last podcast, you said that all you were asking for is basic functionality. I agree 1000%; I also want basic functionality. I want all my rights to be recognized and granted to me just like a White man's. And I want the same thing for everyone else, colored or not.
You have the same rights as any white person in America. You mentioned the Constitution, in which the 14th amendment grants any American citizen equal protection of the laws. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination based on race, color, sex, religion, or national origin.
 
In this article by the Pew Research Center, which Wikipedia describes as a "nonpartisan think tank", Rakesh Kochhar, a senior researcher, writes that "the disposable (after-tax) incomes of middle-class households... in 10 Western European countries in the study trailed well behind the American middle class."
I really don't see how a trailing MIDDLE-CLASS income means they're "worse off". Don't really see the point of discussing middle-class either, if we're talking exposed demographics. I can anecdotally confirm (... :cool:) that when I had an acute pneumonia in Ohio, I had to pay $130 for the steroid shot, despite my shitty student insurance. Do you account for the larger economical buffer needed and / or cost of personal insurance when comparing US wages to european wages? What about average days of vacation in the US?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I really don't see how a trailing MIDDLE-CLASS income means they're "worse off". Don't really see the point of discussing middle-class either, if we're talking exposed demographics. I can anecdotally confirm (... :cool:) that when I had an acute pneumonia in Ohio, I had to pay $130 for the steroid shot, despite my shitty student insurance. Do you account for the larger economical buffer needed and / or cost of personal insurance when comparing US wages to european wages? What about average days of vacation in the US?
I never implied that Western Europeans are "worse off." I stated that the standard of living is higher for the American middle class, which is statistically accurate.

Medical costs are outrageously high in America. They are the primary reason that Americans file for bankruptcy. I agree that something ought to be done. The sooner the better.

Europeans definitely have access to more vacation days than Americans.

I actually agree with lots of arguments that Mrapchem is making. Stop military interventionism. End the war on drugs. Get rid of money in politics. Abolish qualified immunity for government officials. Create equality of opportunity by investing in education. But I disagree on institutional racism and wealth distribution policies.
 

ItsYaBoi

Noob
To say taxes are a flat 60% in some countries is disingenuous. In the UK for example (in which you can never be taxed 60%), you will only get taxed a higher amount on money that is earned over a certain amount. Say if you earn 70,000. 50,000 of that gets taxed 20%, the remaining 20,000 gets taxed 40%. I assume Germany is similar - but correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t looked it up.

The way it’s being worded ITT makes it seem like people can get taxed 60% on all of their income, which I know is false in some European countries.

Might seem obvious that this is how tax works (at least for these countries), but I see a LOT of people on the internet falsely understand taxes. It’s insane.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
However, the middle-class in Germany, for example, does not pay a little bit more in taxes. My cousin who is an unmarried kindergarten teacher earns as much money as I do, but she pays 50% in income taxes, which, in my opinion, is antithetical to hard work, small businesses, and upward social mobility. By contrast, I pay about 22% of federal income taxes and, again, I would not mind paying a little bit more to give equal opportunity to folks who were born under unfortunate circumstances.
Germany has a progressive income tax that tops out at 45% of personal income. They also have a 5.5% surcharge, I assume that's how they got to the 50%. For your cousin to be in the 50% range, their personal income would be about 270K Euros per year, or the equivalent of over $300K US. For the US, 22% bracket would be $40K-$84K. That translates to about 75K euros per year at most. That would top them out at the 42% bracket.

Now, it is a progressive income tax, so they're only paying 42% on income earned over 57K euoros.

If you assume they make 75K euros per year, their effective tax rate on their income tax works out to about 26%.

You can view tax rates for most European countries here.


That link you gave for European countries is a bit misleading. It seems to only be reporting the highest bracket, but that doesn't take into account that a lot of countries that use an income tax use a progressive tax system, so most in the middle class would pay far less than that on their income taxes, and again only the amount of their income that falls into the higher bracket would be taxed at the higher amount.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I never implied that Western Europeans are "worse off." I stated that the standard of living is higher for the American middle class, which is statistically accurate.
It looks like that article simply used median income as a definition of standard of living, but I think that leaves out things like services that governments provide. I think it's fair to say that the American Middle Class generally has more after tax available income, but I'm not sure that income alone is the best measure of standard of living. A lot of that is probably simply due to the fact that taxes in America are lower for the middle class, as you've stated before.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
In this article by the Pew Research Center, which Wikipedia describes as a "nonpartisan think tank", Rakesh Kochhar, a senior researcher, writes that "the disposable (after-tax) incomes of middle-class households... in 10 Western European countries in the study trailed well behind the American middle class." The only exception is Luxembourg, which the author describes as "a virtual city-state where the median income was $71,799" in 2010. The income was $60,844 in America in the same year. The author acknowledges that the middle class in America "may be smaller", though. I lived in Europe half my live and I visited Germany last summer. I can anecdotally confirm the numbers based on my middle-class relatives and friends who reside in Cologne and Stuttgart. I would concede the argument that the reason they make less money is because they pay more in income taxes for social and educational services such as universal healthcare and free college, but I believe that Americans have more freedom to spend their money however they wish because of less taxation. You can view tax rates for most European countries here. As you can see, the tax rate is almost as high as 60% in some countries. I am not sure that you can convince the majority of Americans of any race to pay such amount in taxes.
Disposable income is not the measure of how well off you are. Disposable income is simply income after taxes. European taxes pay not just for 'other people' -- they pay for the the payee's education, health care, social services etc.

When you're forced to spend most of your disposable income buying an overly expensive health plan and taking care of basic needs like child care, housing, etc. and going tens of thousands of dollars up to over $100K into debt for college, then it doesn't matter that it's untaxed. Which is why this myth about "lower taxes = more financial freedom" is entirely false.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
To say taxes are a flat 60% in some countries is disingenuous. In the UK for example (in which you can never be taxed 60%), you will only get taxed a higher amount on money that is earned over a certain amount. Say if you earn 70,000. 50,000 of that gets taxed 20%, the remaining 20,000 gets taxed 40%. I assume Germany is similar - but correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t looked it up.

The way it’s being worded ITT makes it seem like people can get taxed 60% on all of their income, which I know is false in some European countries.

Might seem obvious that this is how tax works (at least for these countries), but I see a LOT of people on the internet falsely understand taxes. It’s insane.
A lot of conservatives take advantage of people not really understanding how progressive income tax systems work to try and scare people.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I had my bio from before MK11 came out, before Shang was confirmed to be in the game.

Case in point that you people will throw a fit over literally anything.

And before you REEEE at me, by "you people" I mean you staunch social justice warriors
The timing of you changing your tag line doesn’t really matter. It’s the fact that it mocks BLM. Honestly, you’re really outing yourself with saying “REEEEE” and SJW at anyone who thinks what Fchamp did was totally classless and stupid as hell and deserving of punishment.

I’m sure there’s a new compilation of “sjw’s get pwned” on YouTube for you to watch though.

The tendency to make EVERYTHING about race or gender or sexual identity/preference can be tiresome when it’s shoe horned, but in this case Fchamp acted like an insensitive idiot at one of the most sensitive moments in our country’s existence and deserved to be banned and “canceled”.
 

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
Disposable income is not the measure of how well off you are. Disposable income is simply income after taxes. European taxes pay not just for 'other people' -- they pay for the the payee's education, health care, social services etc.

When you're forced to spend most of your disposable income buying an overly expensive health plan and taking care of basic needs like child care, housing, etc. and going tens of thousands of dollars up to over $100K into debt for college, then it doesn't matter that it's untaxed. Which is why this myth about "lower taxes = more financial freedom" is entirely false.
(1) Yes, but the problem is the payee has no choice in the matter with regards to the quality of education, healthcare and social services --> They are locked in to whatever the government comes up with. That's why I would rather not have other people pay for my government-issued education, healthcare and social services --> lower taxes, on the other hand, let me keep more of the money I have earned, which then allows me to decide for myself what kind of education, healthcare and social services I want to get for me/my family.

(2) I disagree. More financial freedom doesn't mean that you don't have needs and responsibilities to take care of. More financial freedom means you get to decide when and how to financially address those needs and responsibilities, rather than the government deciding for you. Also, going to college is not 100% necessary, it depends on who you are and what your goals are.