Exploiting plus frames

[Plays2_MX]

I usually think of D1 more of as a way to interrupt the opponent or poke out of pressure than an opportunity to try and hit confirm into a jailing string or frame trap or anything.

Agreed. Maybe I should practice pokes with this new point of view. I'm still stuck on my MKX ways lol. I'll see which strings I can jail with tonight.

 

[Zviko]

Noob's d1 is +11 on hit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my S1 is 7f startup. So, in theory, it should jail. D3 is +10 on hit and it jails with S1 (Timing is strict, tho). So I'm wondering why in the hell i'm getting d2'd to dead because of this.

S2 is 8f Startup, it should also jail with either d1 or d3. I'll lab all of this tonight.

If I use b1 it's no problem and they eat the KB, if I make the right read.

You eat a D2 because you do your S1 too late. +11 on hit means you have a 4f window to jail into 7f S1. You just miss it, even if it's by 1f, you eat a D2. It even jails into your F2 but that's only 2f window. 3f from D3.

Also, why don't you guys just duck if you see they like mashing D2 all the time?

 

[Plays2_MX]

You eat a D2 because you do your S1 too late. +11 on hit means you have a 4f window to jail into 7f S1. You just miss it, even if it's by 1f, you eat a D2. It even jails into your F2 but that's only 2f window. 3f from D3.

Also, why don't you guys just duck if you see they like mashing D2 all the time?

I'll lab tonight what jails and what doens't. And yeah, maybe I'm trying to jail too late.

About the d2... I play with a friend and his playstyle is random af. He uses characters with good D2s (Jade, Sindel, etc) and whenever I stagger or try to jail he just mashes d2 or d4.

 

[fr stack]

Noob's D3 is +12 on hit, which is likely why it works but with a strict timing.

I play Raiden, and I run into the same issue trying to jail a S1 off a D1. The math might technically work out, but I think the problem is the hit box for S1 is higher, or possibly the range is just a touch too short, which is why it's not jailing.

In general I don't think S1's were meant to jail off of D1's. S1 and S1 strings normally seem more like punish strings than strings that were meant to be jailed into.

I dunno about raiden but noobs stand one is a good anti air it hits them airborne at ranges much larger than grounded. I would rather it hit grounded opponents we have 3 very good other anti air buttons in f3 db4 and bf2 (after a backdash) . So it really should be jailing consistently , i wish theyd lower its hurtbox similar to what they did with his f221 string

 

[fr stack]

You eat a D2 because you do your S1 too late. +11 on hit means you have a 4f window to jail into 7f S1. You just miss it, even if it's by 1f, you eat a D2. It even jails into your F2 but that's only 2f window. 3f from D3.

Also, why don't you guys just duck if you see they like mashing D2 all the time?

Because jailing should work correctly d2s should not be the go to option to get out of pressure correctly blocking and punishing negative frames should be

 

[Zviko]

Because jailing should work correctly d2s should not be the go to option to get out of pressure correctly blocking and punishing negative frames should be

It does work. Time it correctly and it does. Stop blaming the game all the time. Blame yourself for once.

 

[fr stack]

It does work. Time it correctly and it does. Stop blaming the game all the time. Blame yourself for once.

Ive been blaming myself since day one dude i know how to jail ive been playing fighters a good 20 years at this stage the buffer windows are not consistent

 

[Marlow]

I dunno about raiden but noobs stand one is a good anti air it hits them airborne at ranges much larger than grounded. I would rather it hit grounded opponents we have 3 very good other anti air buttons in f3 db4 and bf2 (after a backdash) . So it really should be jailing consistently , i wish theyd lower its hurtbox similar to what they did with his f221 string

Yeah, Raiden's S1 works as an anti air.

I'm fine with S1 strings not really being able to be jailed off of a D1 or D3. Normally S1 string is a safe punish string, it doesn't need to also be a safe jailing string. Most characters have other strings for that.

 

[Marlow]

One thing to keep in mind regarding frame advantage, even 3 frames of advantage is just 1/20 of one second, so depending on reaction times, display lag, and possibly online lag it's still a pretty small window to hit consistently.

 

[Jowabunga]

This is accurate for sure, but the thing I keep coming back to is that this didn't happen in mkx or injustice 2 at all to my recollection.

 

[Zviko]

Ive been blaming myself since day one dude i know how to jail ive been playing fighters a good 20 years at this stage the buffer windows are not consistent

Cause there no buffer windows for basic attacks in this game. It's why you can't punish a -6 move with 6fD1. You could with 6f special though.

 

[Gaxkang]

I play on console and I can hit-confirm Scorpion's d3 into his s1 if I turn off the online delay. The thing is that most d1s jail into s1 and most d3s jail into s2, which makes me think they designed it that way. Also in one of the patches they corrected most pokes frame advantages so most can jail that way.

Thing is, if it's designed that way why I couldn't confirm d3 into s2 or d1 into s1 if my life depended on it neither offline nor online?

I dunno and I don't like it. You'd think they'd design this game with this great netcode in a way so that offline and online play don't differ too much from each other, but as it stands the whole poke system is trash as soon as you go online, and I don't like that.

Also can't really talk about how it works offline, since I don't have a local scene for this game.

I think in making something that would work design-wise offline and online is just making a D1 or D3 (whichever is fastest) just combo into S1 or S2 and getting away from the whole jailing concept. They want a D1/D3 centric game...so they should go all the way.

Would also either speed up fights, or I guess one can increase the lifebars too.

 

[fr stack]

Cause there no buffer windows for basic attacks in this game. It's why you can't punish a -6 move with 6fD1. You could with 6f special though.

Yeah i tried using noobs db4 for a while but it barely reaches in front of him so i got blown up a lot . It could also be that my old man brain is just dead set on using strings as its what ive done for so long

 

[Jowabunga]

I read this as "noobs d4" and thought, seriously, what are you on? Haha.