Question - Cyber Sub-Zero Ever Get That Feeling of Deja Vu? TYM hasn't learned

[the.hamburglar]

Whaaaaat. How so?

Also, aside from making dive more neg and giving ice ball more recovery. All they need to do is make it that a low/overhead within 4-5 frames of each other come out as low/mid oh/mid etc

how negative is his dive kick already? ive been punished by it on block or do you mean on whiff

 

[Wigy]

how negative is his dive kick already? ive been punished by it on block or do you mean on whiff

Spaced properly, only very fast advancing fast startup moves can punish. (Sub/reptiles slide etc)

Laos ex spin on buzzsaw doesnt punish it if done properly

 

[Tom Brady]

Even after nerfs Sub-Zero is still high tier and now he's better than ever. He just passed up a lot of characters that used to be better. In MKXL he is better than Kung Lao, Tanya, Cassie Cage, maybe more. I understand the points you're making, but it doesn't hold water because the character is still really good and they even buffed grandmaster. I get that you're salted about unbreakable sucking ass but threads like this just make Sub-Zero players seem ungrateful when we are using a potential top tier character who is better off than almost everyone and still produces more complaints by his users. And if CSZ does get nerfed he will still probably be pretty dang good.

In MKX sz was mid tier, he was high but not after clone disappeared on block. SZ became a crazy character.. dominated a few characters but got death matched by several characters. SZ's core just didnt work, he became a one trick pony which is why the best place he has ever got at big USA majors was 9th on 3 occasions. The rest of the time the character placed in the top 16/32 and on 2 players ever did that in the USA at big majors. I could see you're point if the SZ army was all up in top 16 but usually there is just one.

In MKXL he got a MAJOR buff in the close Clone Toss and the timer change REALLY helps him in those death matches, 2 of which also received buffs of their own (D'Vorah and F/T) so he really needed the help. SZ is made to chase you if you are a character who runs away from him but he also needs to be able to lame you out if you are a character that abuses him in close. He did not have the ability to lame out anyone when rounds last 4 minutes. He was also just a raw 50/50 character of which several characters punished him clone or no clone. He just had no answer for guessing wrong. He didnt have traps, he just had a 50/50 and it wasnt even like it was in open space, it was only in the corner. Oh yea.. lets not forget that it was REALLY hard for him to do combos on female characters in MKX.

I really like him in MKXL now that he is a more complete character.

Anyway.. point was that people ABSOLUTELY overreacted to SZ, going as far as asking for nerfs one week before the game even officially launched. With CSZ i'm not sure how broke he is or even if he is broke at all. While it is true that most people cry over lab, sometimes its obvious if a character is broke and sometimes looks can be deceiving.

 

[KingKhrystopher]

All I know is, Cyrax needs nerfs way more than Cyber Sub. Predator and Cyrax can throw unblockable setups all day, yet CSZ needs nerfs?

I think that's enough TYM for a while.

 

[TheKingsAutopsy]

What did I just read

You took a small piece of the big puzzle, he asked if I had played Cyrax and my comment was saying I don't have to know specifically how to do the resets because there is a whole thread of people detailing the resets and how they are practically inescapable.

 

[CompleteMadness]

say whatever you want about the characters viability, but saying his setups aren't hard to block just makes you look like an idiot.

Calling me an idiot makes you look like an idiot. Saying something is "hard" is matter of opinion. I armoured/blocked a great csv setup with no problem. So yeah no I do not think it's hard to block, is that a problem to you???

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It isn't like Quan where you can know to guess low then high and STILL get hit. CSZ if you guess right your inputs allow you to block. But most of you saw some video and made up your minds while other certain DLC will run this game with their easy as hell to apply meta that leads to simplistic life bar killing pressure.

Last post in this thread. Don't wanna hear shit bout any other character in the future from people in these threads, I'll be the first to remind them "what about CSZ?" You all deserve to get bodied by other chars in the future and "complain" about it when it's too late.

Says someone who hasn't been in the lab. If you had, you'd know that he can throw you into the bomb trap, so merely guessing low->high/high->low won't save you or "allow you to block".

Thus everyone saying "just block" has no idea how this works.

 

[Sultani]

yeah, so that means that this time around anything less than 100% damage resets are ok?

His resets aren't guaranteed. like at all. He does like 40% Bo Rai Cho is better than that. Plus Bo Rai Cho actually sets up restands where he's +478547895274875892745897284375923452. Cyrax "resets" are countered by jumping away, armor, or backdashing.

The only problem with Cyrax is the ability to build ridiculous meter and chew up like a third of a round in one combo.

You need to understand that letting your opponent fall out of an air net is NOWHERE close to as good as it was in MK9.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Why would they make bombs a mid? That would make them practically useless unless meterburned. Actually, typing that out it came to me that if they make bombs low on meterburn and mid on block it wouldn't be half bad, but it still doesn't make sense. Why not just make his divekick punishable, you can already armor out of his hard to blockable setup (more how I saiid setup, as in singular).

Why is Smoke's ball a mid and not low?
Why does a freezing projectile hit low if a combo starter/extender that is situational isnt? I mean, taste the double standard.

And the bomb being mid isn't about making it hit, it's about giving the opponent something to respect or setting up offense...not everything has to be 50/50-able.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

think you may have your terminology mixed up

"In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that makes something less effective or desirable. The word can be used as a verb to describe that change. The opposite of nerf is buff or revamp."

he needs a nerf to his pseudos, thats what it is and thats what we gotta call it


if anything, normalizing suggest a complete overhaul

I feel like they normalize certain moves because once they fix it, it makes the character more normal.

I think nerf is turning the character more squishy (like a nerf football vs a real one).

I may have the terms mixed up in the layman's form but to me, it makes more sense the way I say it whether it be wrong or not lol

 

[RYX]

Why is Smoke's ball a mid and not low?
Why does a freezing projectile hit low if a combo starter/extender that is situational isnt? I mean, taste the double standard.

And the bomb being mid isn't about making it hit, it's about giving the opponent something to respect or setting up offense...not everything has to be 50/50-able.

because bombs are delayed and smoke isn't..

not to mention you can't freeze and then set up an ice bomb, but smoke isn't inhibited from using smoke ball after throwing out spears or vice versa

 

[the.hamburglar]

Why is Smoke's ball a mid and not low?
Why does a freezing projectile hit low if a combo starter/extender that is situational isnt? I mean, taste the double standard.

And the bomb being mid isn't about making it hit, it's about giving the opponent something to respect or setting up offense...not everything has to be 50/50-able.

imo theyshould be low because of the huge gap he has when he throws them out

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

lol ever try using training mode? It usually helps out

Leave it out. Did you even read my post?

 

[lilyunggrabbagjr]

I have a question for all the people crying for Cyber Sub nerfs. Have you personally come across a player who used this tech and consistently beat you? I'm curious, because I've been playing the game for a couple of days now, and I havent seen a single player destroy the competition with this, nor have I found Cyber Sub to be particularly unfair in neutral. I've been playing him non stop and can't say that his overhead divekick is much of a problem. This character struggles quite a bit in neutral/midscreen and once you're in the corner, there are still ways out of the setups.

As far as I can tell, these discussions are all based on a 15 minute video by Reo and some major assumptions. Hardly seems like a fair way to judge a character this early on.

Cyber dub was unfair to me but thats because I played unstoppable jason and got zoned out lol

 

[the.hamburglar]

Cyber dub was unfair to me but thats because I played unstoppable jason and got zoned out lol

how do you get zoned out to a character whos only projectiles are delayed ice bombs and ice balls lol

 

[the.hamburglar]

Leave it out. Did you even read my post?

all im saying is your overreacting, he isnt the next quan chi. Those corner "unblockables" only work in the corner and you cant really set it up in the neutral. I agree that it should be a little bit easier to block but your playing a game that takes skill.

 

[SaltShaker]

Says someone who hasn't been in the lab. If you had, you'd know that he can throw you into the bomb trap, so merely guessing low/high won't save you.

Thus everyone saying "just block" has no idea how this works.

I know exactly how his setups work. I've labbed this character over 20 hours, played matches, shared tech in the CSZ forum, and doubt I should share any more because of the outrageous over the top upplay.

If he goes for a throw you have a counter option. No? Or is it free at all times? That's my point. Every single "omg I can't do anything" option has a counter. Mostly of full combo punishable counters. But no one cares because a hero guy made a video. This isn't a Quan "hey I'm +14 so even if he blocks me I get a free 2nd 50/50" or Takeda "hey you're gonna block this 2/10 while I full combo you, and I still didn't get nerfed" or Sonya "now I get free faster safe reloads while you guess multiple times for your life bar" or GM Sub "I place this clone in the corner and I dare you to get out while I 50/50 you and break your armor" or etc.

The game is loaded with dirty setups, but people are crying to Nerf something they know nothing about, and haven't even attempted to learn their counter options. When everyone else is "normalized" then yea, but until then this witch hunt is stupid as hell and is only happening because of one video.

 

[Sultani]

to summarize.

1. Cyrax does NOT have unavoidable/unblockable resets. period. Air net doesn't have the same amount of recovery when the opponent falls. you can jump away, backdash, or armor out.
2. Cyrax eats up way too much time and builds way too much meter in combos
3. Cyrax needs to have the gravity increase when bombs explode. That's it.
4. Ice clone disappearing on block was NOT a nerf. It was a visual correction. The ice clone ALWAYS went away, it was just glitched and left a clone with an inactive hitbox on the screen that never did anything anyway. I am so sick of people still saying "omg Sub Zero got worse when they made clone go away on block." No he didn't. It always worked like that, and it actually made him better. When you put out an ice clone and blocked an attack before the update, the inactive ice clone stayed on the screen and you couldn't put out another one until it went away. When that was fixed, it reduced the amount of time you had to wait to put out another one. That was not a nerf.
5. CSZ is only really a problem in the corner.

 

[the.hamburglar]

to summarize.

1. Cyrax does NOT have unavoidable/unblockable resets. period. Air net doesn't have the same amount of recovery when the opponent falls. you can jump away, backdash, or armor out.
2. Cyrax eats up way too much time and builds way too much meter in combos
3. Cyrax needs to have the gravity increase when bombs explode. That's it.
4. Ice clone disappearing on block was NOT a nerf. It was a visual correction. The ice clone ALWAYS went away, it was just glitched and left a clone with an inactive hitbox on the screen that never did anything anyway.
5. CSZ is only really a problem in the corner.

he does have those unblockable resets lmao, he has a low bomb and an overhead and cybersub cant pull the bomb unless hes in the corner

 

[I GOT HANDS]

His resets aren't guaranteed. like at all. He does like 40% Bo Rai Cho is better than that. Plus Bo Rai Cho actually sets up restands where he's +478547895274875892745897284375923452. Cyrax "resets" are countered by jumping away, armor, or backdashing.

The only problem with Cyrax is the ability to build ridiculous meter and chew up like a third of a round in one combo.

You need to understand that letting your opponent fall out of an air net is NOWHERE close to as good as it was in MK9.

you, the other three guys who did the same, and anyone else from the future planning to quote me about Cyrax not being broken need to understand I didn't say a damn thing about Cyrax being broken

 

[villainous monk]

I haven't even installed Kp2 yet.
Even played any of these nostalgic characters.
All I've seen are vids and insane combo's and safe moves.

And..... I already know kano would probably have to fight for his dear life In most match ups so yeah.

Deja vu.

But hey. Whata ya gonna do huh?

It's all good. NRS will eventually nurff them. After were all done crying and running around like the skies falling.

Meh.

 

[Tom Brady]

Says someone who hasn't been in the lab. If you had, you'd know that he can throw you into the bomb trap, so merely guessing low/high won't save you or "allow you to block".

Thus everyone saying "just block" has no idea how this works.

And thats the argument that I'll listen too. Not that things are hard to block so nerf it. Its that you HAVE to block it or you get combo'd, but if you block you eat a combo off of an unblockable grab. Its also not "Like Predator" as people say. Predator's trap goes away when he is hit. If you have a fast enough wake up attack to beat any armor break setups or you wake up him throw him when he baits the wake up and blocks, the trap disappears.

I agree with you in that I think some people missed the point of what REO was saying. He certainly wasnt acting as some high profile player posting nonsense. I think what REO was saying was if you dont time your block on the hard to blockable, you eat a combo. If you block right but get thrown, you eat a combo. In several instances even if you get up and hit CSZ, you still eat a combo. Again, im not sure what's broke or not broke at this point.

 

[TheKingsAutopsy]

you, the other three guys who did the same, and anyone else from the future planning to quote me about Cyrax not being broken need to understand I didn't say a damn thing about Cyrax being broken

Pretty sure these are directed at me man.

 

[the.hamburglar]

And thats the argument that I'll listen too. Not that things are hard to block so nerf it. Its that you HAVE to block it or you get combo'd, but if you block you eat a combo off of an unblockable grab. Its also not "Like Predator" as people say. Predator's trap goes away when he is hit. If you have a fast enough wake up attack to beat any armor break setups or you wake up him throw him when he baits the wake up and blocks, the trap disappears.

I think what REO was saying was if you dont time your block on he hard to blockable, you eat a combo. If you block right but get thrown, you eat a combo. In several instances even if you get up and hit CSZ, you still eat a combo. Again, im not sure what's broke or not broke at this point.

its still too early

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Pretty sure these are directed at me man.

well im the one they are all quoting so who fuckin knows lol