Question - Cyber Sub-Zero Ever Get That Feeling of Deja Vu? TYM hasn't learned

[rubmytaco]

I have a question for all the people crying for Cyber Sub nerfs. Have you personally come across a player who used this tech and consistently beat you? I'm curious, because I've been playing the game for a couple of days now, and I havent seen a single player destroy the competition with this, nor have I found Cyber Sub to be particularly unfair in neutral. I've been playing him non stop and can't say that his overhead divekick is much of a problem. This character struggles quite a bit in neutral/midscreen and once you're in the corner, there are still ways out of the setups.

As far as I can tell, these discussions are all based on a 15 minute video by Reo and some major assumptions. Hardly seems like a fair way to judge a character this early on.

 

[I AM MOSSBERG]

There is nothing to discuss. CSZ is a character that--once fully learned, is purely brain dead. The receipt to his success is to 50/50 your opponent to death

...not cool.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

While I love the character, I do think that the hard to block able setups are still stupid. Escapable or not, there should be no setups that lead in to an near unblockable into 40. As a general rule not one damn character should have it. Cyber sub needs nothing done to him except for the hard to blockable to be removed in some way, it doesn't take weeks to see that. This applies for every character too.

Also, I know its easily escapable by armour, but what about if you don't have meter, or you're a character without a viable armour attack. Basically you're getting a near guaranteed 40 percent done to you, which is straight up stupid. Just my two cents.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Exactly how was he fucked? The only thing I can remember them changing was the cooldown on ice clone (which still isn't much) and a visual correction of the clone hitbox not being active after Sub blocked.

I think he's referring to when the clone never disappeared on block - which I mean was pretty wrecked honestly.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Some characters have been overly nerfed, but there has never been a char that was wrongly deemed op- when there is a strategy that allows almost no option for the opponent, it should be adjusted. Everyone keeps saying its just about REOs video, but ive actually played a few good cszs who dont even use the unblockable set up and the character seems suffocating just in his basic form. Its gonna be okay, hes just gonna get a little nerf itll be over before you know it, shhhhh its okay

 

[Sultani]

Hiya fam, as the title suggests, I would like to ask you fellow forum goers if you ever get a feeling of deja vu when TYM attempts to talk about meaningful character balance so early in the launch cycle. For myself, this feeling struck me upon perusing the forums these past two days.

Apparently a well respected hotshot decided to post some tech on a brand new ice-based Lin-Kuei character. His main gimmick is that he has very strong trap based setplay in the corner that is very ambiguous for his opponent. For the most part, after a "hardknockdown" he can deploy an ice based trap for mixups or armor breaking purposes.

Naturally, such a strong and unique playstyle will frighten players, and likewise there was much screaming for nerfs. These nerfs are justified because of 12 total minutes of lab footage not based on any real matchup experience or tournament setting. As a matter of fact, 90% of the people asking for nerfs haven't actually fully labbed the setups.

What does this remind you of, TYM?

What can we do to stop it from happening again? How long until Sonic Fox complains about this character on Twitter and gets him nerfed for sure (while simultaneously maining other dumb characters for us to complain about later)? Was Tom Brady right about us all along?

Discuss.

What does it remind me of? Tanya.

Everyone could see that Tanya was obviously busted when she was released. When something is so ridiculously obvious, you don't need more time to see it. CSZ is ridiculous. The end.

 

[Phosferrax]

Exactly how was he fucked? The only thing I can remember them changing was the cooldown on ice clone (which still isn't much) and a visual correction of the clone hitbox not being active after Sub blocked.

Clone didn't go away on block, which was absolutely ridiculous.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Can we not use the word nerf when speaking on an aspect that needs to be normalized?

Nerf means an overhaul of a character, fixing plenty of OP aspects to make them on the level as other characters.

Normalized means fixing one or two over the top moves so it can better match that character's overall level - ie Cassie backflip

Lao needed a nerf, Quan needed a nerf, Tanya needed a nerf.

CSZ has a psuedo-unblockable, it needs to be fleshed out.

Surely they will make ice bombs mid...still allowing him to pressure and utilize it, but taking out the psuedo-unblockable.

Cyrax needs a nerf tho. He's dumb

 

[Jynks]

even if there is a kp2 dlc over representation in top 16 at FR19 it still will not mean anything really as in high level play match up knowledge counts for so much. KP2 being relitivly untested will mean there will vbe a innate advantage in using them, even with the fact that the offence will not be as great as the same toons will have a month from now.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Can we not use the word nerf when speaking on an aspect that needs to be normalized?

Nerf means an overhaul of a character, fixing plenty of OP aspects to make them on the level as other characters.

Normalized means fixing one or two over the top moves so it can better match that character's overall level - ie Cassie backflip

Lao needed a nerf, Quan needed a nerf, Tanya needed a nerf.

CSZ has a psuedo-unblockable, it needs to be fleshed out.

Surely they will make ice bombs mid...still allowing him to pressure and utilize it, but taking out the psuedo-unblockable.

Cyrax needs a nerf tho. He's dumb

think you may have your terminology mixed up

"In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that makes something less effective or desirable. The word can be used as a verb to describe that change. The opposite of nerf is buff or revamp."

he needs a nerf to his pseudos, thats what it is and thats what we gotta call it


if anything, normalizing suggest a complete overhaul

 

[rubmytaco]

Clone didn't go away on block, which was absolutely ridiculous.

Yes it did, just not visually.

 

[rubmytaco]

I think he's referring to when the clone never disappeared on block - which I mean was pretty wrecked honestly.

It actuallly did. The clone could no longer freeze, but was still visually on screen.

 

[SeasonedGeisha]

It's also really funny to complain about Cyrax when his Mk9 self Had UNBLOCKABLE RESETS!! They weren't even "hard-to-blockables" the bombs were UNBLOCKABLE.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

It's also really funny to complain about Cyrax when his Mk9 self Had UNBLOCKABLE RESETS!! They weren't even "hard-to-blockables" the bombs were UNBLOCKABLE.

yeah, so that means that this time around anything less than 100% damage resets are ok?

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Sheeple when will they learn. It's as if you guys don't play the game and only watch youtube videos of some tournament player with around 3k subscribers to form opinion on character.

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

It's also really funny to complain about Cyrax when his Mk9 self Had UNBLOCKABLE RESETS!! They weren't even "hard-to-blockables" the bombs were UNBLOCKABLE.

I don't get your point? Everyone to this day complains about how broken Cyrax was/is in MK9

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

mk9 was also a dirty game, the issue here is mkx is a very clean game and anything overpowered really sticks out. everyones so hungry to have a dirty character though its crazy how reliant people are on cheap tactics

 

[TheKingsAutopsy]

There is nothing to discuss. CSZ is a character that--once fully learned, is purely brain dead. The receipt to his success is to 50/50 your opponent to death

...not cool.

50/50 your opponent to death? I was gonna say it sounds a lot like Sonya, but it sounds a lot like half the cast honestly.

 

[Eddy Wang]

TYM hasn't learned at all, they strongly state that a broke character "is fine" and one with that doesn't work as intended "tournament viable"

 

[TheKingsAutopsy]

Can we not use the word nerf when speaking on an aspect that needs to be normalized?

Nerf means an overhaul of a character, fixing plenty of OP aspects to make them on the level as other characters.

Normalized means fixing one or two over the top moves so it can better match that character's overall level - ie Cassie backflip

Lao needed a nerf, Quan needed a nerf, Tanya needed a nerf.

CSZ has a psuedo-unblockable, it needs to be fleshed out.

Surely they will make ice bombs mid...still allowing him to pressure and utilize it, but taking out the psuedo-unblockable.

Cyrax needs a nerf tho. He's dumb

Why would they make bombs a mid? That would make them practically useless unless meterburned. Actually, typing that out it came to me that if they make bombs low on meterburn and mid on block it wouldn't be half bad, but it still doesn't make sense. Why not just make his divekick punishable, you can already armor out of his hard to blockable setup (more how I saiid setup, as in singular).

 

[epicpumpkin]

yeah, so that means that this time around anything less than 100% damage resets are ok?

Bro get the fuck off it Cyrax doesn't need needed his resets for one have to be frame perfect two you can back dash or armor out or fuzzy three he has literally dick all the punish most the cast his combos require great screen spacing and awareness as well as some tight timing to link anything past 35 percent. He has no safe reversal his pressure game is garbage out side of 212 which has trex limb syndrome. Gtfo

 

[RYX]

just to let everyone know making bombs a mid would kill CSZ

he has no formidable pressure out of scoring a knockdown and then forcing a reaction with bomb mixups. giving him such a substantial nerf would require a complete rebalancing of most of his toolset in order to make him worth playing at all

 

[TheKingsAutopsy]

Bro get the fuck off it Cyrax doesn't need needed his resets for one have to be frame perfect two you can back dash or armor out or fuzzy three he has literally dick all the punish most the cast his combos require great screen spacing and awareness as well as some tight timing to link anything past 35 percent. He has no safe reversal his pressure game is garbage out side of 212 which has trex limb syndrome. Gtfo

Literally if anyone checks the Cyrax combo thread the people posting the resets will tell you themselves that backwash gets caught and only 1 frame armor moves can come out. Who gives a single fuck of the timing is difficult? It shouldn't be in the game period. No character needs a 200% nearly inescapable reset, forget CSZ, need the fuck out of Cyrax.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Even after nerfs Sub-Zero is still high tier and now he's better than ever. He just passed up a lot of characters that used to be better. In MKXL he is better than Kung Lao, Tanya, Cassie Cage, maybe more. I understand the points you're making, but it doesn't hold water because the character is still really good and they even buffed grandmaster. I get that you're salted about unbreakable sucking ass but threads like this just make Sub-Zero players seem ungrateful when we are using a potential top tier character who is better off than almost everyone and still produces more complaints by his users. And if CSZ does get nerfed he will still probably be pretty dang good.

 

[epicpumpkin]

Literally if anyone checks the Cyrax combo thread the people posting the resets will tell you themselves that backwash gets caught and only 1 frame armor moves can come out. Who gives a single fuck of the timing is difficult? It shouldn't be in the game period. No character needs a 200% nearly inescapable reset, forget CSZ, need the fuck out of Cyrax.

Actually you can back dash it unless it's really high net. Period you have no idea what your talking abut have you even played him uet