Match-up Discussion DS Matchup Chart after a year into IGAU

[Slips]

This is what I think as the game has progressed so far.

Aquaman: 5-5
Ares: 6-4
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 4-6
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 6-4
Cyborg: 5-5
Doomsday: 5-5
Flash: 4-6
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 6-4
Harley Quinn: 6-4
Hawkgirl: 6-4
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 5-5
Lex Luthor: 6-4
Lobo: 5-5
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 6-4
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 6-4
Sinestro: 5-5
Grundy: 5-5
Superman: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Zatanna: 5-5
Zod: 5-5

Advantageous MUs: 12
Even MUs: 13
Disadvantageous MUs: 4

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Cool.. now about this NW matchup lol

Lol I have it 5 5, but it isnt a common matchup so could be wrong.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Because he's sick getting d2ed when he tries to dash in or jump or being outfootsied at max f3 range. When flash players get impatient they usually LC or EXLC. both are blown up by ducking. That running man stance shit isn't going to work either.

he does get outfootsied at that range but i think at literally every other range he wins and its so easy for him to get in those ranges. even if he backs up just a little out of it

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

@GGA Slips, pretty close to mine, just a few more advantage matchups. Could u explain the GL matchup from ur perspective, that matchup is definitely an interesting one and some have it even or one/ the other winning it.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

I was thinking the same thing
But NW can
•Counter Zone
•Can punish anything
•Blows up his wakeups (If you want I'll tell you how)
•Staff j2 beats DS j3 if im correct and I think escrima j3 beats DS J3
I hardly lose this matchup.. or maybe im just not playing a good enough Ds lol

 

[Vagrant]

Wonder Woman: 4-6

I KNEW I WASN'T CRAZY!

 

[Argenrost]

I do honestly believe DS 5-5's with MMH, Jupiter himself seemed to agree. It may be very slightly in MMH's favor just because of how brutal the corner lockdown can be, but if DS plays solid it's very winnable.

And since people seem to be really curious about the DS vs. NW match-up, I have played it regularly in the past and it's horrible, lol. It was actually one of the reasons why I considered a secondary character early on in the game's lifetime. @FOREVER EL1TE's on point with this one; NW's zoning can shut down all of DS's zoning if executed well and deal more damage overall, plus his footsies are generally better, especially in Staff. NW has become my official secondary character and every DS player I've played with him wants to cry when they realize how bad it really is, lol. 6-4 NW easily.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I was thinking the same thing
But NW can
•Counter Zone
•Can punish anything
•Blows up his wakeups (If you want I'll tell you how)
•Staff j2 beats DS j3 if im correct and I think escrima j3 beats DS J3
I hardly lose this matchup.. or maybe im just not playing a good enough Ds lol

Ds actually can do those same things to him lol which is why 5 5 works for this MU

 

[Slips]

@GGA Slips, pretty close to mine, just a few more advantage matchups. Could u explain the GL matchup from ur perspective, that matchup is definitely an interesting one and some have it even or one/ the other winning it.

DS obviously wins the zoning war. DS d2 is pretty decent at AA'ing GL at a lot of angles. GL's b1 game is greatly in DS's favor. Backdashing a GL b13 gives DS a free b1u3 (or even DS has 2 bars or backround bounce nearby, it's even more damage). If GL tries to punish backdash after b1 is blocked he opens himself up to being full combo punished. So GL has to use other means besides b1 to get in sometimes.

So ultimately getting outzoned and b1 game being so risky seems to me that GL is pretty far outside of his normal comfort zone to call it a 5-5. That's how I view it anyway.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I KNEW I WASN'T CRAZY!

Haha , that matchup could be 6 4 ww for sure, I need to see that mu more/ play it more for sure.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

@Argenrost, hmm interesting take on NW, but I am not too convinced since DS can go toe to toe with nightwing and can deal with his zoning. But like I said, it isnt a common matchup by any means, needs to be fleshed out more.

 

[Laos_boy]

I say Harley is 5-5 but can be 4-6. b2 can out footsie him unless he reads and f3s. Harley can't really zone unless its in cupcake range. Deathroke can win in the neutral game do to fast options. He gets a punish off of every air gun shot with quick fire but we have mb air gunshot. we cant really oki you so end in max damage play doctor But that leads you back to the neutral game. I just think the better player will win in this my but the Harley player has to work harder. So I can agree with 4-6 or 5-5

 

[Vagrant]

Haha , that matchup could be 6 4 ww for sure, I need to see that mu more/ play it more for sure.

I've been quietly thinking it was a slight disadvantage for a while now. Didn't want to say anything though cause I didn't want to argue it with people.

It's winnable but she's just so solid in so many aspects.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

DS obviously wins the zoning war. DS d2 is pretty decent at AA'ing GL at a lot of angles. GL's b1 game is greatly in DS's favor. Backdashing a GL b13 gives DS a free b1u3 (or even DS has 2 bars or backround bounce nearby, it's even more damage). If GL tries to punish backdash after b1 is blocked he opens himself up to being full combo punished. So GL has to use other means besides b1 to get in sometimes.

So ultimately getting outzoned and b1 game being so risky seems to me that GL is pretty far outside of his normal comfort zone to call it a 5-5. That's how I view it anyway.

Good take on it, I need to work on backdashing b1 bcuz that is huge for ds in that matchup. Also how do u feel about the wonder woman matchup?

 

[Argenrost]

DS obviously wins the zoning war. DS d2 is pretty decent at AA'ing GL at a lot of angles. GL's b1 game is greatly in DS's favor. Backdashing a GL b13 gives DS a free b1u3 (or even DS has 2 bars or backround bounce nearby, it's even more damage). If GL tries to punish backdash after b1 is blocked he opens himself up to being full combo punished. So GL has to use other means besides b1 to get in sometimes.

So ultimately getting outzoned and b1 game being so risky seems to me that GL is pretty far outside of his normal comfort zone to call it a 5-5. That's how I view it anyway.

Reading stuff like this is why I feel iffy about my own analysis of match-ups, lol. I don't have a lot to work with in my area outside of the South Florida crowd, and unfortunately I can only discover so much information by myself. I didn't realize it was possible to backdash b13 until this past weekend.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Ds actually can do those same things to him lol which is why 5 5 works for this MU

Its different
If im in staff and block one of your gunshots then you'll either eat the damage from ground pound
or block it. If you block it im pretty sure we trade the next time.
Plus upclose you cant jump because Flying graysons anti airs and gold help you if you in the corner while im in staff stance.
Plus if I MB STAFF SPARK after a blocked gunshot then your eating a lot of chip or I can use the frame advantage and dash or flying grayson in. While your blocking thinking that ima do another Ground spark

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I've been quietly thinking it was a slight disadvantage for a while now. Didn't want to say anything though cause I didn't want to argue it with people.

It's winnable but she's just so solid in so many aspects.

Agreed, wowo is like the sonya of igau, I am so serious, her time will come.

 

[ryublaze]

I KNEW I WASN'T CRAZY!

me too

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Its different
If im in staff and block one of your gunshots then you'll either eat the damage from ground pound
or block it. If you block it im pretty sure we trade the next time.
Plus upclose you cant jump because Flying graysons anti airs and gold help you if you in the corner while im in staff stance.
Plus if I MB STAFF SPARK after a blocked gunshot then your eating a lot of chip or I can use the frame advantage and dash or flying grayson in. While your blocking thinking that ima do another Ground spark

U cant disregard DS's oki game tho, he has a solid one. Also in footsies, d2 will be an issue for Nw as it is fast, safe, and blows up dashes. In the zoning game, vs escrima I can air gun wing dings and gun down the spark since guns are faster/ jump over them on reaction. For staff, high guns faster than ground pound so u have to respect them and ground pound tracking can be dashed on at times. Up close, staff doesnt have a solid AA meaning I can jump on him, and DS can blow up flying graysons as well.

 

[ryublaze]

i think imma start plugging in numbers in the match-up thread v3 if DS players want to help.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

U cant disregard DS's oki game tho, he has a solid one. Also in footsies, d2 will be an issue for Nw as it is fast, safe, and blows up dashes. In the zoning game, vs escrima I can air gun wing dings and gun down the spark since guns are faster/ jump over them on reaction. For staff, high guns faster than ground pound so u have to respect them and ground pound tracking can be dashed on at times. Up close, staff doesnt have a solid AA meaning I can jump on him, and DS can blow up flying graysons as well.

Nightwing standing 1 AA in staff

 

[Rampage254]

I wish I could plug in numbers but half the time I don't even know what I'm doing with DS.

 

[Argenrost]

@GGA Slips, the only other issue I have with the GL match-up is that I'm not so sure anymore that DS out-zones GL as hard as I once thought. Once he gets within lift range (a little past half-screen) you can't touch gun shots at all; past that range, air rockets will generally beat all of your ground-based gun shot options, and the damage exchange between air rockets and connected gun shots is in GL's favor unless you spend meter, something GL doesn't have to do. So you have to guess he's gonna jump and do air Quick Fire. This is a great situation for DS if you make a correct read, but... guessing wrong means he gets within lift range, and that's bad news for DS in the neutral game.

Being able to consistently backdash b13 obviously changes the dynamic of the match-up drastically compared to what I knew before, but I still feel like DS has to work a lot harder for high damage opportunities than GL, and that causes me to question the favorable nature of the match-up for DS.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Nightwing standing 1 AA in staff

Back nd forth, blow for blow. I guess we will have to agree to disagree, it shall be fleshed out for sure as time goes on

 

[Argenrost]

@Argenrost, hmm interesting take on NW, but I am not too convinced since DS can go toe to toe with nightwing and can deal with his zoning. But like I said, it isnt a common matchup by any means, needs to be fleshed out more.

I agree that the match-up needs to be fleshed out a bit more. To be fair, adopting NW as a secondary has made me realize that while NW has some crazy good stuff going for him, his greatest asset is lack of match-up knowledge. His weaknesses are very apparent when his opponent actually understands what they're dealing with.