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Match-up Discussion DS Matchup Chart after a year into IGAU

Maasik

Maasik

Mortal
I also think Flash has 7-3 advantage. Can't zone him, his up close game is much better, and he can punish us from almost anywhere on the screen. This MU is a nightmare.
 
FOREVER EL1TE

FOREVER EL1TE

Warrior
MITDJT said:
Which ds? I was just listing what gives ds the advantage, will wait for those who I tagged to give me some input as well.
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•Even though Deathstroke may win zoning, I can make reads and do air gunshots
•Harley Quinn punishes way better
with bigger damage
•She wins footsie game with b22
•Her jump2 beats his j3
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Champion
Maasik said:
I also think Flash has 7-3 advantage. Can't zone him, his up close game is much better, and he can punish us from almost anywhere on the screen. This MU is a nightmare.
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Nah. D2 is good against him, jump back 3 works very well to punish his whiffs, yeah he can punish guns but you can bait his lightning charge and punish it, you can punish his wakeups that are invincible, and you can still mix him up.

He out damages DS heavily. Thats why I think it's a slight DS disadvantage.
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Vagrant said:
Nah. D2 is good against him, jump back 3 works very well to punish his whiffs, yeah he can punish guns but you can bait his lightning charge and punish it, you can punish his wakeups that are invincible, and you can still mix him up.

He out damages DS heavily. Thats why I think it's a slight DS disadvantage.
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how would you bait out lightning charge? i dont see any reason why he would realliy use it unless hes punishing guns
 
KingHippo

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
I think he beats Green Lantern, goes even with Batgirl, beats Black Adam, destroys Hawkgirl and Ares 7-3, and goes even with Aquaman. That's all I'd change for the most part.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
FOREVER EL1TE said:
•Even though Deathstroke may win zoning, I can make reads and do air gunshots
•Harley Quinn punishes way better
with bigger damage
•She wins footsie game with b22
•Her jump2 beats his j3
Click to expand...
Hmm, DS does have pretty good dmg as well
J3 has more reach, so she has to watch that and I can use jump 1 to beat jump 2 as well
Ds can air gun u out of your air gun shot
B2 is solid, but that can get beat by f3 mb if I am correct
What are her AA options? I know DS has d2 which is very good nd safe
Ds can hold the life lead better since he wins the zoning game
Up close Ds is fine as well, there isnt a distance where ds isnt fine against her, but I am of course open to hearing what she can do, I would have no issue calling this Mu 5 5
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
Maasik said:
I also think Flash has 7-3 advantage. Can't zone him, his up close game is much better, and he can punish us from almost anywhere on the screen. This MU is a nightmare.
Click to expand...
6 4 flash ok, DS doesnt have 7 3s IMO bcuz he is an all around character with a diverse set of tools.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
KingHippo said:
I think he beats Green Lantern, goes even with Batgirl, beats Black Adam, destroys Hawkgirl and Ares 7-3, and goes even with Aquaman. That's all I'd change for the most part.
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Interesting, u should play DJT at anaheim and see how it goes. BG for sure could be even and BA is up in the air for many, time will tell I guess.
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Champion
AVN PTH jonnitti said:
how would you bait out lightning charge? i dont see any reason why he would realliy use it unless hes punishing guns
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Because he's sick getting d2ed when he tries to dash in or jump or being outfootsied at max f3 range. When flash players get impatient they usually LC or EXLC. both are blown up by ducking. That running man stance shit isn't going to work either.
 
SaltFace NS

SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
MITDJT said:
He wins the zoning game
Has good footsie tools to use in the sweep distance game
Better wakeup options
Better AA options
Can hold a life lead better
Now I could be wrong, so I will tag @Kitana Prime @AK SaltFace and @deg222
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I have it as a 5-5 (in a neutral stage) but a 4-6 on a stage like Ferris or Watchtower where DS can abuse Interactables. B2 is better than all your poke options, Harley can win in the air to air game once within a certain distance, with enough patience I WILL GET IN eventually due to cupcakes & the block dash foward method, & Harley has options to destroy DS for waking up off of her 112 combo ender. Honestly without interactables it is pure 5-5.
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
I go back and forth thinking DS/Grundy is 5-5, it's one of those match ups where the first hit is of the utmost importance. If Grundy lands that first hit, gets chip trait and one bar I feel it tips the matchup heavily in his favour from there on in. Likewise if DS lands the first hit, it really sucks for Grundy, I would really like to get sets in with a DS that uses his up close game and footsies. Every random DS I play just sits there doing gun shots when I have chip trait on and a 50% life lead.

Would appreciate any DS players on XBL that would add me for some games, playing a character like DS and not using his footsie game is limiting my knowledge on the matchup. I've even started playing DS a little to try and get in the mindset.
 
Maasik

Maasik

Mortal
MITDJT said:
6 4 flash ok, DS doesnt have 7 3s IMO bcuz he is an all around character with a diverse set of tools.
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I'm not saying he 7-3's Flash, I'm saying Flash 7-3's him IMO. Unless you meant DS doesn't have any 3-7's.. In which case I disagree but that's cool lol.
 
SaltFace NS

SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
Plus when it comes to the "Jump 3" problem the only way to win an air to air against Harley is to pull immediately & if you make a wrong read, pull early, & I don't jump I get a free B22 punish to a full combo.
 
K

kaseyk

Apprentice
KingHippo said:
I think he beats Green Lantern, goes even with Batgirl, beats Black Adam, destroys Hawkgirl and Ares 7-3, and goes even with Aquaman. That's all I'd change for the most part.
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why do you think he wins 7-3 hg ? she can full combo punish sword spin rego and both mbs and sword flip , she can get grounded (heavenly stomp)and punish air guns from near full screen . can air mt punish grounded guns . f3 against a good hg is a free we2 combo . i'll always see it 5-5 .
 
FOREVER EL1TE

FOREVER EL1TE

Warrior
MITDJT said:
Hmm, DS does have pretty good dmg as well
J3 has more reach, so she has to watch that and I can use jump 1 to beat jump 2 as well
Ds can air gun u out of your air gun shot
B2 is solid, but that can get beat by f3 mb if I am correct
What are her AA options? I know DS has d2 which is very good nd safe
Ds can hold the life lead better since he wins the zoning game
Up close Ds is fine as well, there isnt a distance where ds isnt fine against her, but I am of course open to hearing what she can do, I would have no issue calling this Mu 5 5
Click to expand...
She has air gunshots for ranged AA
and a d2 but I hardly use it because I'd rather just go air to air
Any blocked sword flip is b22
She has a setup to bait sword spin and DS will get punished
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
AK SaltFace said:
Plus when it comes to the "Jump 3" problem the only way to win an air to air against Harley is to pull immediately & if you make a wrong read, pull early, & I don't jump I get a free B22 punish to a full combo.
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Interesting, fair enough explantion for me and I was kind of thinking 5 5 initially. One thing tho, both can blow up each others wakeups pretty bad lol :p. Yeah I agree on certain stages, DS will have the upper hand and b2 does do her well vs DS.
 
A

Argenrost

Noob
That's right, I actually made an account here to talk to people about stuff, lol. But I'll try to chip in since I guess people value my input. My opinion probably isn't as well-informed as that of others, but...

Aquaman's a straight 5-5. Aquaman has the advantage in overall combo damage output but DS checks Aquaman's ability to play a mindless FTD zoning game, as reversal Quick Fire punishes FTD for free. MB Quick Fire is guaranteed if his trait is down. DS can also play solid footsies with Aquaman as long as you don't jump predictably.

Doomsday as a 5-5 is one of the biggest match-up misconceptions imo, it's at least 6-4 Doomsday and the primary reason I don't exclusively play DS. None of the Florida Doomsdays disagree with me on this. If you're 100% consistent on blowing up Doomsday's wakeup options (which is very possible) then it's not as bad, but DS has very little means to control the pace of the match, especially if Doomsday gets trait up. One blocked/whiffed set of gun shots and Doomsday gets within range to threaten you in one forward dash. It's not impossible to shut down Doomsday's momentum, but every option you have in any given situation carries such a high risk for the fact that d1 xx Earth Shaker does as much damage as 2-3 good reads on gun shots. Never mind the fact that DS doesn't have a spammable normal to lock Doomsday down during trait.

Green Lantern is... not a fun match-up at all. I used to believe it was a 5-5, possibly 6-4 in DS's favor, but the overall exchange of damage in zoning between the two characters when making good reads is often in GL's favor. And once he gets within mid-range you have to start making incredibly bold decisions just to gain an advantage. Gun shots at the wrong range are easily punishable by reversal lift, and b13 ensures you basically can't play footsies with GL at all. You have to give him reason to pause so you can hopefully dash in and start some f23 frame trap pressure. But if the GL player is both competent and confident you won't get many opportunities like this at all; you have to boldly guess right and just hope for the best. DS is also one of the few characters who gets almost entirely screwed by b13 xx db2. The only way to get out of the string without taking a bad trade is to a) get really good at backdashing the second hit of b13, which is an obscenely small window, or b) MB f3 in the small gap between b13 and db2. This is actually a pretty great punish for the series, but the window for both options is very tight and the easier option costs meter, which in turn means you can't spend meter recklessly. Ultimately, the point is that GL's job is infinitely easier than yours in the match-up, and that doesn't seem like a 5-5 to me.

MMH is actually a solid 5-5, which is probably one of DS's more desirable features. I played a bunch of matches with Jupiter at Civil War this past weekend, and after getting acquainted with all that character's BS it became evident to me that DS can keep MMH honest at long range easily. This means he has to gamble with overhead teleports to counter gun shots and get an easy in, but if he does it at a bad time you can blow it up with MB b3 and force him into the same situation. You can still get wrecked if he gets too close/puts you in the corner, but a well-placed Sword Flip can give you the breathing room you need to apply your zoning game.

Zod is definitely not a 5-5. Similar to Doomsday, this is at least 6-4 in Zod's favor and one of DS's worst match-ups imo. DS has ways of checking Zod's trait activations with good reads but you can't play footsies with Zod at all and once trait is out you're forced to exercise godlike blocking or taking high-risk gambles to keep him from hurting you badly. It's entirely possible I just don't have enough experience with the match-up but it's never been pleasant in my experience.

I have some more input to give for other match-ups, but I'll settle in on it later. And again, I operate mostly on Theory Fighter and some degree of match-up experience, but I feel like I've played enough really strong players to make fair judgments here and there. Some of DS's match-ups are harder than I think a lot of people imagine, but he also has a lot more control in other ones.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
@Argenrost, nice analysis of each matchup and I tagged u for a reason :p, respect the input for sure. Those Mus u mentioned r very hot topics as far as matchups go for DS, in this 2nd yr for Igau we will find many things out about these and if DS does to 5 5 vs mmh that would be awesome :)
 
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