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Match-up Discussion DS Matchup Chart after a year into IGAU

I definitely need to play it more, but from playing m2dave in some matches, I definitely know some things about it.
*DS's zoning obviously will be an issue since he can low gunshot zod's quickshot, he can low gunshot under instant air zod balls, and his standing gun shot too fast for zod's projectiles in general.
*Up close, DS can abuse the fact that zod's wakeups are meh, so u can work the oki game and utilize DS's 50/50 mixups.
*DS has better wakeups just in case he needs to use them, zod will have to respect DS's wakeups more
*Now trait is definitely an issue for sure, great thing about DS is you can shoot him before he gets trait out since guns possess that kind of speed
*DS's footsies will do him wonders from sweep distance as you have f3, b1, and d2 at your disposal.
I will however tag @AK Pig Of The Hut and get his input on the matchup as well.
@C88_Real_Harris
 
I actually think that got better for Hawkgirl over time so I can agree. I'm interested in playing it offline and online with you, but I dunno if you'll be at UFGT or not, but either way PSN would be cool too :).
definitely, dnt know why I haven't added you yet lol, just send me your GT and i'll add you today.
 
I like it , most of it seems good.

There are some matchups like DD , Batgirl , Zod , MMH that aren't fleshed out and not played at the best level right now so i'm on the fence about those , DD is most likely even , we had some discussions on Batgirl in the past it's either 4-6 or 5-5 , Zod i feel like it's an even matchup ( no one knows about Zods holes in his "pressure" and how to punish them ) but stage selection can make it 4-6 Zods favour and most stages are good for him im not sure about this , MMH is similar to Zod , could be an even matchup but MMH really can abuse interactables to make his damage hella good , stage is a big deal vs him.

As for Aqua i really feel it's a 5-5 , Aquaman footsie tools are slightly better but he can't chip DS out when he has a lifelead , DS has better mixups to open him up and he can go ham off knockdowns.

Seems i was right about the Raven MU afterall ;)
interesting, I was just playing theo yesterday and I actually didn't know AM could punish low guns lol :p. But of course if you meter burn them, he'll get exposed. Up close, Yeap DS abuses AM's lack of wakeups without a doubt and that is a spot where DS would like to be. I will have to play it more, and other matchups definitely aren't fleshed out yet, we'll see where things go in the 2nd year for IGAU.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I definitely need to play it more, but from playing m2dave in some matches, I definitely know some things about it.
*DS's zoning obviously will be an issue since he can low gunshot zod's quickshot, he can low gunshot under instant air zod balls, and his standing gun shot too fast for zod's projectiles in general.
*Up close, DS can abuse the fact that zod's wakeups are meh, so u can work the oki game and utilize DS's 50/50 mixups.
*DS has better wakeups just in case he needs to use them, zod will have to respect DS's wakeups more
*Now trait is definitely an issue for sure, great thing about DS is you can shoot him before he gets trait out since guns possess that kind of speed
*DS's footsies will do him wonders from sweep distance as you have f3, b1, and d2 at your disposal.
I will however tag @AK Pig Of The Hut and get his input on the matchups as well.
@C88_Real_Harris
I need to play it more as well but some negatives in the mu for zod

ds blows up wakeups pretty well in this MU
ds can punish trait summon w MB quick fire if not done after bgb, side arm mb, slow ball blocked, or typical HKD and zod loses trait
Ds can shoot under side arm and IAZB in the meta is not very good, only on setups imo
ds d2 works well vs ji1 from zod

In this MU imo zod needs to play Mid screen where ds also has options but zod d2 can beat out j1/2/3 and even if he trades still confirm to combo ending in trait summon

Trait mix ups works well

Also to be fair zod has setups as well where DS CAN NOT wake up every even w sword spin. Zod can end any combo and do immediate ji3 or ji1 and stuff every wake up or at worst trade 2% for 11% ji3

Id like to play this MU many more times w slips, mit, crathen and others before really feeling strong about a MU # but for now i feel it can go either way 5-5
leaning towards a slight 5.5-4.5 zod favor but again idk yet enough to feel confident putting a # on it
 
I definitely need to play it more, but from playing m2dave in some matches, I definitely know some things about it.
*DS's zoning obviously will be an issue since he can low gunshot zod's quickshot, he can low gunshot under instant air zod balls, and his standing gun shot too fast for zod's projectiles in general.
*Up close, DS can abuse the fact that zod's wakeups are meh, so u can work the oki game and utilize DS's 50/50 mixups.
*DS has better wakeups just in case he needs to use them, zod will have to respect DS's wakeups more
*Now trait is definitely an issue for sure, great thing about DS is you can shoot him before he gets trait out since guns possess that kind of speed
*DS's footsies will do him wonders from sweep distance as you have f3, b1, and d2 at your disposal.
I will however tag @AK Pig Of The Hut and get his input on the matchups as well.
@C88_Real_Harris
I think the stage is also a big factor. I ran this matchup a bunch with Peckpowa the other night and guns do stop him from randomly calling out trait. Knowing how to block his trait mixups and punish will also help a lot.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I think the stage is also a big factor. I ran this matchup a bunch with Peckpowa the other night and guns do stop him from randomly calling out trait. Knowing how to block his trait mixups and punish will also help a lot.
lets play soon as well

is that your xbl tag?
 

Crathen

Death is my business
interesting, I was just playing theo yesterday and I actually didn't know AM could punish low guns lol :p. But of course if you meter burn them, he'll get exposed. Up close, Yeap DS abuses AM's lack of wakeups without a doubt and that is a spot where DS would like to be. I will have to play it more, and other matchups definitely aren't fleshed out yet, we'll see where things go in the 2nd year for IGAU.
Yea FTD can punish LGS anywhere but fullscreen , i'd still LGS a little from 3/4 screen , doing reversal moves with a down input after blocking low is harder than it seems and if they screw up free quickfire punish , anywhere closer i'd mostly use MB LGS to make them safe.

You can play this matchup hella lame especially if you get an early lifelead , feels good holding back vs Aqua , his b12 / b2 become way easier to deal with when you're not the one chasing him down the whole match.
 
Yea FTD can punish LGS anywhere but fullscreen , i'd still LGS a little from 3/4 screen , doing reversal moves with a down input after blocking low is harder than it seems and if they screw up free quickfire punish , anywhere closer i'd mostly use MB LGS to make them safe.

You can play this matchup hella lame especially if you get an early lifelead , feels good holding back vs Aqua , his b12 / b2 become way easier to deal with when you're not the one chasing him down the whole match.
yes indeed, when I get the lead in that matchup, I force AM to hang himself and make mistakes.
 
I'm leaning towards 5-5 for Batgirl.
the only reason I have it slight for batgirl is the fact that she can take a lot a damage off of DS with one touch and DS has to respect her options a lot. However, DS does have better footsies, safer wakeups, and ways to blow up her cartwheel/jumping and etc. Also DS can shoot her out of tele as well.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
So here's my take:

Aquaman: 4-6 - definitely agree here
Ares: 6-4 - more or less yeah, not really sure what ares has going for him in this MU, i lost to Mr Aquaman at DTN but i did really well and it was my first time playing the matchup. i found out right away it was in my favor. haven't done a whole lot of labbing but it could be 7-3. if someone knows more let me know.
Bane: 5-5 - definitely agree even though Grr scares the fuck out of me
Batgirl: 4-6 - i think this could be 5-5. low guns are actually pretty good against batgirl. she can't punish low guns on block up until around 2 character spaces away. also, you can't really reliably react to low guns. you can react to DS crouching, but not so much the low guns themselves. i've baited people to do smoke bombs on reaction to me doing something like a d1, so you can definitely discourage her from doing it. you just have to use them sparingly. its also important that you practice stuffing out batwheel with d1, since if she wakes up with smoke bomb, you can block in time and punish. of course, you still have to watch out for dp but discouraging them from doing batwheel is really important. i also feel liek DS has better anti air options against her.
Batman: 5-5 - agree more or less. i personally have a hard time with batman but i think thats me, not the character.
Black Adam: 5-5 - more ore less yeah maybe 4-6 because black adam does more damage but you have the tools to win so the advantage is minuscule if any.
Catwoman: 6-4 - havent played this match once but from what i can tell i agree more or less
Cyborg: 6-4 - same story with catwoman
Doomsday: 5-5 - i personally struggle with this matchup. not sure if its just me though. i have a hard time dealing with characters like doomsday that are always in your face like that. from what i see on paper its probably 5-5 if not 4-6 but like black adam, advantage is miniscule if any.
Flash: 4-6 - i personally think this is 3-7. flash gets in way too fast for you to really get any sort of chip in, the fact that he can punish low guns isn't even that big of a deal because he can dash in so fast and put you in frame trap land. up close literally all of his buttons beat your buttons so he forces you to be on the defensive a lot. d2 buff in the latest patch has been a great asset in helping DS in this matchup since he has something fast, mid and plus that gives a combo to check him for dashing in and you get a lot of milage off of it but its still something that flash deals with very well. i felt before the patch he really didn't have anything very reliable for checking flash for dashing other than d1 which doesn't give you much unless you're in the corner, and why would he be dashing in when you have him cornered lol. i feel like you're forced to play right outside of b22 range and play footsies with him. you do outrange him and you have pretty decent anti air options against him, but he will win most air to air exchanges with j2 in that range, sometimes DS will win with j1. the problem with flash is whenever you give him any sort of frame advantage he can press on frame traps really hard, so the only moves you really have that you can press your offense on are f23 and f3. +1 isnt enough to really compete with flash's normals because you will trade d1s and flash gets jim combos after d12, but it gives you more breathing room on the defensive. i also feel that flash anti airs ds better than vice versa because i feel like his d2 can reliably beat out DS's jump ins a little bit more reliably than DS can d2 or sword flip his j2. also flash is one of the few characters that has good tools for dealing with armor because he has so many fast multi hitting strings so you wont get a lot of milage off of MB f3 im open for discussion because i might be doing something wrong. i play this MU a lot so i would love to reliably kick my training partner's ass.
Green Arrow: 6-4 - yeah more or less. i've played 7L a bunch of times and our matches are always really close and i feel like hes better than me
Green Lantern: 5-5 - i think this is 6-4. from full screen, lantern can't really compete with low guns so he has to approach DS until he gets into lift range. at lift range, you can't use guns but i dont think thats a big deal. lantern has a hard time getting okizeme off of DS. sword flip eliminates most of the mixup after a lift in trait. its limited to whether or not lantern will push a button rather than guessing left, right or down. it also eliminates the neutral jump setups after a lift in trait once you get lantern to respect your flip, you can start doing things like waking up with a grab or wake up and then go for overhead/low, or force him to go for guaranteed damage instead of reset damage which is significantly less. on the other hand, lantern's lack of wakeups leave him really susceptible to a lot of DS's setups. the only wakeup you really have to watch out for is lift and if you armor through it, you take jack shit damage so you can use MB f3 pretty liberally when you have low health. also its really important that you practice backdashing b1. even though he has options to check you for backdashing, its not worth letting him get safe pressure 24/7. also, all his options to check backdashing are unsafe. b1 minigun is slow as shit and ive interupted it with something as slow as i14 (stand 3) and ao's rocket is a high and even if he MB's it, the rocket will explode behind you on whiff at that range so you can d2 him, or maybe even more because hes still in recovery for a while. backdashing b13 gives you around 15 frame window to punish. stand 3 will work but if you backdash b13 while cornered, the invuln frames on the backdash will still be active when the elbow comes you and you are in range to punish with stand 1. if he does b1 lift, the lift will whiff if you backdash and you can get MB high guns for max dammy and unclashable or sword flip for hard knockdown. i personally like going for hard knockdown and create distance. of course, if you dont backdash the lift hes -8billion so you can blow him up for that. thoughts?
Harley Quinn: 6-4 - i agree more or less. i think DS might have a little bit more of an advantage. idk how she can compete in zoning and i feel like DS has better footsie tools. i play this matchup a good amount but ive only really played 2 harleys and one of them is a fairly new player so i kinda know what habbits to look out for right away. the other one i played is Ramon and since the patch i dont think hes beaten me in tournament. last time was losers finals one time at a 6 man turnout at the break a little bit before the patch.
Hawkgirl: 6-4 - i havent seen much of this match but from my own personal experience i have no idea how the hell hawkgirl is supposed to win. not much insight here
Joker: 6-4 - definitely agree.
Killer Frost: 5-5 - definitely agree also
Lex Luthor: 6-4 - not sure, ive played revolver once in an earlier version of the game at a yestercades tournament in casuals and i had no idea what was going on. i haven't played a lex player since. so no idea.
Lobo: 5-5 - no idea
Martian Manhunter: 4-6 - i agree more or less, could be 5-5 maybe. he has all the tools to deal with a good amount of manhunters bullshit but i have to play jupiter more. i actually barely played the kid.
Nightwing: 5-5 - i agree more or less from what i experienced. last 2 times i played nightwing in tournament i lost
Raven: 6-4 - not sure
Scorpion: 5-5 - definitely agree
Shazam: 6-4 - definitely agree. ive been playing Indecisive a lot and he knows this matchup very well and hes known it a lot longer than me. im starting to figure it out but i feel like a lot of shazams go about it the wrong way. shazam has to play patient to compete and most shazams are always reckless.
Sinestro: 5-5 - definitely agree. worst matchup in the game though. its the most "whoever gets the first hit wins" deal ever.
Grundy: 5-5 - more or less yeah
Superman: 5-5 - more or less yeah
Wonder Woman: 5-5 - maybe 4-6. ive been playing KDZ a lot lately and i have a hard time finding holes in her pressure. lot of times when i jump out he confrims for a full combo. if anybody can help me out you da bess.
Zatanna: 5-5 - dont know much but from what i can tell probably
Zod: 5-5 - ive played viking once in casuals and once in tournament. i got blown up for not knowing that if i wake up with sword flip and hit him ill still get trait grabbed lol. i felt like i was doing very well in the match. i can see this as a 5-5 but i dont know much.

@MITDJT
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can u explain black adam?
#the zoning game will be in DS favor since guns are faster than lightning and can punish black magic as well
#DS has solid air to air options to deal with divekick and BAs solid air normals
#Up close DS will have to respect BAs trait and wakeups, but DS can blow up his wakeups with meter burn f3/b3 or by making it whiff with a neutral jump and etc. The footsie game is fairly even and both have good up close options and pressure.
From any distance, DS can fight BA, which helps alot.
 

Vagrant

Champion
I think aquaman is even but I'm in the minority apparently on that

Batman I think is 4-6
Bane I think is a 4-6 but I have to fight the best Bane all the time.

Martian I think might be even eventually.

The rest I agree with mostly.
 
I think aquaman is even but I'm in the minority apparently on that

Batman I think is 4-6
Bane I think is a 4-6 but I have to fight the best Bane all the time.

Martian I think might be even eventually.

The rest I agree with mostly.
Interesting, the batman matchup is a life lead matchup, whoever can hold a lead, will do well. As far as bane goes, I need to play that some more, at least ds not hopeless like some are vs bane haha.
 

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
Yo definitely add me. I feel that I play the MU pretty well with both Cyborg and Zod.

I feel that Zod is slight advantage, only because he can turtle super hard when he has the life, literally waiting for trait to comeback. It is very competitive because DS has good footsies and an ever better oki game (particularly in the corner). Where as Zod has awful wakeups.

Cyborg is most likely slight dis-advantage in the MU. It is very lifelead dependent, and a slow battle where someone will ultimately get chipped to death. (On trade hit Cyborg does 8% while DS does 6%). However, DS has a much better comeback potential as his damage is far superior to Cyborg, and he can outspace cyborg pretty well. Cyborg also has to have PERFECT execution, because his iafb makes him airborne so any trade, will casue a knockdown that allows DS to either dash in, or resume zoning advantage