Do you think Adderall or its variants give an unfair advantage?

[Israel]

Hm..this is interesting. If i was playing my opponent and he told me he took this before the match for better performance, i would be interested in seeing how he plays. I wouldnt care really. If the medication would help the players focus? yes..., would it help the player become great? ..idk, i wouldnt care really either. I would just find it sad if majority of players break their necks to get some..just for this one thing.

(which is funny because the so called TOP players in the games today MAY already be using these) Just dont do it people..its not worth it really.

 

[Israel]

You know how players say..
"i play better when im high"
"i play better when im drunk"
"i play better when im sober"

I think these are all mental... i mean, whatever makes your focus better.
I actually Play better when im sick... (Flu/fever) Makes no sense i know, but in Halo aint no one touching me and on fighters im punishing it all.

Dont resort to taking adderall plz dont. Not that serious. but to answer your question...Im not sure if it is an unfair advantage.

 

[Doombawkz]

I'm going to concede that I don't know enough to comment any further, but not without noting that neither do most of the other people in this thread. I think the most we can conclude is that any answer to the poll is really just speculation. There's no proof that it will have a positive effect but no proof that it will have a negative one? Is that correct

@Doombawkz what about someone who hypothetically does see significant benefits from taking the drug, would you feel that is an unfair advantage?

I'm a bit late to this, so my apologies. Driving to a class to teach so I don't have a lot of time, I'll shorthand.

If there were someone who was not ADHD but benefitted immensely from the drug, then that would likely be unique to that one person and unenforceable on the grand scale. I wouldn't consider it cheating per se any more than I would consider Usain Bolt cheating for being born with a body built for running better than some others. It would be something that can't be controlled or preordained, and so as a TO I would advise against its use but I wouldn't be able to make a case to actually ban it.

That's just looking at it objectively.

 

[Doombawkz]

So this is why doctors just advocate eating apples for people suffering from ADHD instead of taking strong prescription drugs?

DOC: "Listen bro -- just eat apples. It'll fix everything."

PATIENT: Wut?

DOC: "Trust me bro. It's just as good. If you don't have any apples, just give someone a hug and drink a glass of water and it'll mitigate the effects of ADHD and drastically improve your ability to focus"

PATIENT: Huh?!??

DOC: Trust me, I lurk on the TYM forums -- it's almost as good as medical school. Plus I eat apples and drink water; I'm focused bro! Gimme a hug!

..........

Except people with ADHD are chemically built a certain way that the medicine is designed to work with, which is how medicine as a whole works.

For people it's not made for whom are already taking steps to improve their focus within the environment, then that Doctor is right most of the time.

So don't make the mistake of confusing usage with necessity. Medicine isn't a one size fits all deal, and to assume so is creating a misleading argument.

If you went to a doctor and explained that you have trouble focusing, he would probably recommend eating more sugar and fiberous fruits (apples), drinking more water, and participating in social and emotional interactions with others around you as all of these provide the brain with the means to which is can focus naturally by engaging different parts or providing a body fuel.

 

[Israel]

..All you guys that are getting upset because you think he's referring to Banning players who use it, thats not what hes asking nor suggesting.

Dont get yourself worked up.

 

[scarsunseen]

A little off-topic, but GTA on shrooms is a hell of a good time.

 

[Invincible Salads]

the only thing adderall would do is make you more on point with things like punishes, instant airs, and tight frame windows. It doesnt turn you into the flash, it would just help you be less sloppy, lol.

 

[Qwark28]

I heard that if you take adderall you can fuzzy guard nightwings staff 2 and staff spark.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

If you went to a doctor and explained that you have trouble focusing, he would probably recommend eating more sugar and fiberous fruits (apples), drinking more water, and participating in social and emotional interactions with others around you as all of these provide the brain with the means to which is can focus naturally by engaging different parts or providing a body fuel.

There's a difference between having 'trouble focusing', and being able to focus decently but wanting to gain an extra edge.

Similarly, athletes on muscle-building PED's don't necessarily have trouble building muscle, but along with the usual practices (diet, exercise, training) they are trying to get every extra advantage they can on the others who are doing the same thing.

So the use of natural methods to help achieve your peak, doesn't make it ok for people to also supplement those methods with prescription drugs that have performance-enhancing side effects.

 

[XxTheGoblinX]

If its an performance enhancing drug, its unfair and should be banned. They are already regulating in fps. If it helps you focus of course its unfair because your not relying on your natural ability.

 

[Somea2V]

I feel like there is a fundamental problem with this discussion. There's a way to have informed discourse on the matter and a way to have uninformed discourse. Plain and simple, the fact that adderall provides a sharper level of focus is an advantage. Understanding what this advantage translates into and having a proper discussion on it is frequently where these types of threads fall apart.

Let's introduce a thought experiment, shall we? Say I flash-cloned a perfect copy of Sonic Fox. We could then run Sonic-Prime vs. Sonic-One match-ups that would theoretically be perfectly 5-5. Both players would literally have the same level of knowledge and proficiency. Now, say we allowed Sonic-One to use adderall to sharpen his focus for the matches. Given an incredibly high and equal starting level of understanding, execution and reaction, any sort of improvement in focus would most likely yield a significant change in how the matches play out. Adderall, as a drug provided to sharpen the mind's focus, would provide an increase in performance but it wouldn't be some sort of miracle drug. Someone who is attending a major for the first time couldn't pop two pills and suddenly make top eight. But likewise, the benefits of the drug would not be completely benign as it would shape and enhance performance relative to where it was in the first place.

Steroids have been mentioned already as an analog to adderall. I think most of you have been shooting down this comparison, but it's actually 100% accurate. Steroids aren't some miracle drug that guarantees an incredible increase in muscle mass in and of itself. The way steroids function is to provide a more efficient growth in muscles as they are exercised. Basically if an individual with no substantial muscle mass or training regimen were to ingest steroids, nothing would really happen just because of that action. And if the individual didn't subscribe to an already efficient method of muscle training, the steroids wouldn't guarantee some insane bulking up akin to body builders just because they were ingested. Steroids have the most substantial role at high levels of muscle training and competition. No amount of steroids are going to turn a high school baseball player into an MLB slugger without a substantial amount of work on the underlying ability and muscle foundation of that individual.

TLDR: There is no way to deny the advantage adderall provides over your normal functionality. It hones your focus just like steroids hone your muscles' natural growth. However, it isn't going to miraculously induce tournament wins in noobs. These types of supplements do affect outcomes at the highest levels, which is still an unfair and bought advantage.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I've been playing too much Fallout lately 'cause I see this thread in another way lol.

I play better with my glasses on. (Glasses buff)

PER +1

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Not as much as picking Shinnok.

 

[FL Rushdown]

At the absolute highest level it's a definite edge. In pools, meh.

 

[God Confirm]

I feel like there is a fundamental problem with this discussion. There's a way to have informed discourse on the matter and a way to have uninformed discourse. Plain and simple, the fact that adderall provides a sharper level of focus is an advantage. Understanding what this advantage translates into and having a proper discussion on it is frequently where these types of threads fall apart.

Let's introduce a thought experiment, shall we? Say I flash-cloned a perfect copy of Sonic Fox. We could then run Sonic-Prime vs. Sonic-One match-ups that would theoretically be perfectly 5-5. Both players would literally have the same level of knowledge and proficiency. Now, say we allowed Sonic-One to use adderall to sharpen his focus for the matches. Given an incredibly high and equal starting level of understanding, execution and reaction, any sort of improvement in focus would most likely yield a significant change in how the matches play out. Adderall, as a drug provided to sharpen the mind's focus, would provide an increase in performance but it wouldn't be some sort of miracle drug. Someone who is attending a major for the first time couldn't pop two pills and suddenly make top eight. But likewise, the benefits of the drug would not be completely benign as it would shape and enhance performance relative to where it was in the first place.

Steroids have been mentioned already as an analog to adderall. I think most of you have been shooting down this comparison, but it's actually 100% accurate. Steroids aren't some miracle drug that guarantees an incredible increase in muscle mass in and of itself. The way steroids function is to provide a more efficient growth in muscles as they are exercised. Basically if an individual with no substantial muscle mass or training regimen were to ingest steroids, nothing would really happen just because of that action. And if the individual didn't subscribe to an already efficient method of muscle training, the steroids wouldn't guarantee some insane bulking up akin to body builders just because they were ingested. Steroids have the most substantial role at high levels of muscle training and competition. No amount of steroids are going to turn a high school baseball player into an MLB slugger without a substantial amount of work on the underlying ability and muscle foundation of that individual.

TLDR: There is no way to deny the advantage adderall provides over your normal functionality. It hones your focus just like steroids hone your muscles' natural growth. However, it isn't going to miraculously induce tournament wins in noobs. These types of supplements do affect outcomes at the highest levels, which is still an unfair and bought advantage.

This is exactly what I don't have the energy to type out (or the grace of wording). Exactly this, let's put this debate to rest.

 

[Somea2V]

This is exactly what I don't have the energy to type out (or the grace of wording). Exactly this, let's put this debate to rest.

It's what I do. Notice my title.

 

[Zoidberg747]

There's a difference between having 'trouble focusing', and being able to focus decently but wanting to gain an extra edge.

Similarly, athletes on muscle-building PED's don't necessarily have trouble building muscle, but along with the usual practices (diet, exercise, training) they are trying to get every extra advantage they can on the others who are doing the same thing.

So the use of natural methods to help achieve your peak, doesn't make it ok for people to also supplement those methods with prescription drugs that have performance-enhancing side effects.

His point is that people that take it when it isn't prescribed to them won't get as much of an effect.

For example, most of the time nonprescribed Adderall and other drugs like it are used in order to study or pass an exam. There have been studies about this and basically, the drugs tend to have side effects like jitteriness or severe headaches, which actually reduces the academic performance for the most part.(Source: https://rucore.libraries.rutgers.edu/rutgers-lib/38417/)

The thing is that these drugs were created specifically for people whose brain is "hyperactive" so to speak (ADHD). If your brain chemistry isnt the same as that of someone with ADHD, the drug will have less of an effect on you(hence diminishing returns).

Not to mention all the research done to show that the drug can be psychologically addictive and have negative side effects when taken by someone who doesn't have ADHD or a similar brain chemistry. Taking non-prescribed Adderall to do better at a fighting game tournament would be incredibly stupid and dangerous, with a good chance of it having very little effect on your actual performance.

And all this is a moot point because even if it does provide an advantage, there is no way grassroots FGC tournaments would start regulating it. That being said, if you are out there thinking that you might try some adderall to improve your Fighting Game performance, please don't be an idiot and take that risk.

Edited to cut out some "fluff"

 

[God Confirm]

We definitely can't regulate it and you definitely can't stop your opponent from using it, but if the question is "is it fair for me to be on it for the advantages it brings in a tournament however small they are" then the answer is most definitely no. I don't even see how it's debatable. I don't see how this poll isn't an absolute landslide.

 

[Eldriken]

We definitely can't regulate it and you definitely can't stop your opponent from using it, but if the question is "is it fair for me to be on it for the advantages it brings in a tournament however small they are" then the answer is most definitely no. I don't even see how it's debatable. I don't see how this poll isn't an absolute landslide.

Differences of opinion is why it's not an absolute landslide. That's exactly the purpose of the poll and the topic; to get peoples' opinions on the matter.

Those who have voted may or may not have personal experience with Adderall or any other type of AD(H)D medicine and will base their opinion on it as such.

 

[BlackJackSnack]

Even if it was made illegal in tournament, there would literally be no way to stop ppl

 

[Zoidberg747]

We definitely can't regulate it and you definitely can't stop your opponent from using it, but if the question is "is it fair for me to be on it for the advantages it brings in a tournament however small they are" then the answer is most definitely no. I don't even see how it's debatable. I don't see how this poll isn't an absolute landslide.

Thing is it wouldn't be an unfair advantage to everyone, only to the few who A. Have ADHD B. Are a top player anyway and C. Are lucky enough to avoid the negative side effects that would hinder your performance.

So I voted no because it would only be an unfair advantage in a really specific situation and would just as likely be a disadvantage.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I'm gonna say no, take with this with a grain of salt as I've never used it or been in a high level tournament and seen others use it. What I'm basing that opinion off of is a quote for Sun Tzu's The Art of War (highly recommended reading for you guys, its pretty short, and there are plenty of versions that have annotations and explanations for the more cryptic passages)

To secure ourselves from defeat is in our own hands, but the opportunity for defeating the enemy is presented by the enemy themselves.

Sure they may have better reactions, or can focus better on what they should be doing, but at the end of the day them taking a victory over you is more likely because of a mistake or opening you gave them, than some form of enhancement they've given themselves.

 

[God Confirm]

Thing is it wouldn't be an unfair advantage to everyone, only to the few who A. Have ADHD B. Are a top player anyway and C. Are lucky enough to avoid the negative side effects that would hinder your performance.

So I voted no because it would only be an unfair advantage in a really specific situation and would just as likely be a disadvantage.

Does it really matter? The people who it doesn't help arent forced to take it, the people that it does give an advantage can use it to have an unfair one. In fact this makes it even more unfair because its an advantage that a lot of people can't even match just by taking the drug themselves (not that they should want to anyway).

Differences of opinion is why it's not an absolute landslide. That's exactly the purpose of the poll and the topic; to get peoples' opinions on the matter.

Those who have voted may or may not have personal experience with Adderall or any other type of AD(H)D medicine and will base their opinion on it as such.

Yes, let me make it clear that I'm not confused as to HOW the poll results work, I understand people click a button and it shows up there. I'm just shocked that the masses "opinions" towards stuff that is basically just factual science is so conflicted. Reminds me of all the anti-vaccine mum's out there.

 

[OG Mannimal]

does molly give you an advantage

 

[Zoidberg747]

Does it really matter? The people who it doesn't help arent forced to take it, the people that it does give an advantage can use it to have an unfair one. In fact this makes it even more unfair because its an advantage that a lot of people can't even match just by taking the drug themselves (not that they should want to anyway).



Yes, let me make it clear that I'm not confused as to HOW the poll results work, I understand people click a button and it shows up there. I'm just shocked that the masses "opinions" towards stuff that is basically just factual science is so conflicted. Reminds me of all the anti-vaccine mum's out there.

But people with ADHD are at a disadvantage and the drug is just giving them a chance to be on a even level.