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Do you all feel jump back teleport is too strong of a tool?

Should jump back teleport be removed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 52.9%

  • No

    Votes: 37 35.6%

  • I'm a scorpion player and this involves me to think in neutral, so no

    Votes: 12 11.5%
  • Total voters
    104
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Juggs said:
At least Scorpion has to either use meter to TP cancel, or has to take a huge risk to TP/amp TP. And he’s also not a zoner. While other characters can TP for literally free like Cetrion, Scarlet, Raiden, etc. It makes no sense giving a good zoner a teleport. The entire gameplan vs a zoner is walk them down to the corner, limiting their range of movement and slowly limiting their options. It’s absolutely dumb as fuck to work so hard to get in a winning position spacing wise vs a great zoner like Cetrion, only for her to TP out of it like it never happened.

People complain more about Scorpion because way more people use him than Cetrion. But Cetrion even HAVING a TP is rahtard and it shouldn’t be in a tournament variation.
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“Her TP doesn’t do 300 damage tho” - kasual player
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
NeonGroovyGator said:
THIS.
I don't know why anyone would object to this.
Games shift characters' power around all the time to be less frustrating or healthier in general and there's nothing wrong with that.
If current Scorpion is something you guys are comfortable to have as the franchise's poster boy, OK. I just don't think that's good to the game. That's the first character most people go to when they first turn on the game, and he's ugly to watch and his design is disconnected from the way they sold how the game should be played.
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Bro what are you even talking about? They’ll pick him regardless.

The first thing someone who knows nothing about MK knows is Scorpion and Sub-Zero lol
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
It's funny people are trying to downplay how strong defensive teleports are just to make scorpion look stronger.

Teleports like cetrions dont need be attack teleports to be strong. Her game revolves around range and keeping characters out. She also has very good strings/staggers. Being able to use 1 defensive bar to reset the distance between her and her opponent is very strong.

Again it's good because of how well she can play from long range. When playing a character like baraka I'd much rather fight against a scorpion player than a cetrion player.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Juggs said:
At least Scorpion has to either use meter to TP cancel, or has to take a huge risk to TP/amp TP. And he’s also not a zoner. While other characters can TP for literally free like Cetrion, Scarlet, Raiden, etc. It makes no sense giving a good zoner a teleport. The entire gameplan vs a zoner is walk them down to the corner, limiting their range of movement and slowly limiting their options. It’s absolutely dumb as fuck to work so hard to get in a winning position spacing wise vs a great zoner like Cetrion, only for her to TP out of it like it never happened.

People complain more about Scorpion because way more people use him than Cetrion. But Cetrion even HAVING a TP is rahtard and it shouldn’t be in a tournament variation.
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Skarlet TP recovery is 42 frames meter or not, Scorpion recovers at 22 frames its an offense teleport so instintively players will always block first before doing anything which puts scorpion's opponents in flawless block lock out, basically Scorpion gets in for free straight into a 50-50 where if he is right there is always an option you won't be able to block, either is cancel into throw, cancel into poke, cancel into walkback into mid, cancel into walk in to fake a throw and mid because no player here is reacting to a freaking 10f throw, or just let it rock and amplify which might still hit other players even after they block the first TP because they were trying to react to it.

All other characters can't just teleport into someone's back, their teleport its for escape purpose, Skarlet can only appear close to someone if she anticipates a long recovery projectile enough to put her into a punishing position, if she wants to appear on a different position than default she has to use meter and she still recovers at 42 frames, much different from Scorpion who can do it as late as possible and still punish, cancel and do whatever even without nothing on screen he always poses a risk.
 
Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
OutworldKeith said:
That’s definitely not a guess. Not in the slightest.
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It's 100% a guess. You can check his meter, sure, but why would Scorpion throw out a random teleport without meter? That's what they use meter for. And even if they have meter they can fake out and go for a grab and not amp it especially if they know you're gonna block.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Eddy Wang said:
Skarlet TP recovery is 42 frames meter or not, Scorpion recovers at 22 frames its an offense teleport so instintively players will always block first before doing anything which puts scorpion's opponents in flawless block lock out, basically Scorpion gets in for free straight into a 50-50 where if he is right there is always an option you won't be able to block, either is cancel into throw, cancel into poke, cancel into walkback into mid, cancel into walk in to fake a throw and mid because no player here is reacting to a freaking 10f throw, or just let it rock and amplify which might still hit other players even after they block the first TP because they were trying to react to it.

All other characters can't just teleport into someone's back, their teleport its for escape purpose, Skarlet can only appear close to someone if she anticipates a long recovery projectile enough to put her into a punishing position, if she wants to appear on a different position than default she has to use meter and she still recovers at 42 frames, much different from Scorpion who can do it as late as possible and still punish, cancel and do whatever even without nothing on screen he always poses a risk.
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10 frames plus however big the tech window is.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Vslayer said:
It's 100% a guess. You can check his meter, sure, but why would Scorpion throw out a random teleport without meter? That's what they use meter for. And even if they have meter they can fake out and go for a grab and not amp it especially if they know you're gonna block.
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Let me help you out.

Block low.

React to a blocked TP or cancel.

If he throws you can let go of block and immediately block again.

This will neutral crouch the throw and allow you to block if he does something different.

You have to train to get your reactions up, but I promise you it ain’t a guess.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
L3MMYsaves said:
When people choose scorpion i use it as a chance to practice characters i dont have down yet, because i know i can defend him. i abuse the move, but when i play scorpion my gameplan becomes simpler and more reliable, i just lose the chance to enjoy my flashy offense and showy beatdowns, is playing safe not a legitimate strategy? because its a style that wrecks ol skorp.... fundamentally, his weaknesses as a character glare through his obvious offensive strategies, i think you guys just dont want to practice...
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Its not a practicing problem, Telecancel recover is way too safe, too safe that he can use it to get in at any point in game, cannot be punished, and trying to jab him out of it puts you always at risk.
Whenever Scorpion has 4 full bars he is probably the scariest character in the game, you have to guess either will he cancel, and if he doesn't will he amplify it? and in between he can cancel try different options under a timing you HAVE to take a risk and react without your brain cells recodnize the cancel, so reacting to a 10f throw after its a guess no one here is doing it on reaction.

Want to go by a test record these exactly the same
TP Amp
TP cancel Walk forward slightly and throw
Do everything you did on paragraph above exactly the same but instead of throwing, use B143
TP Cancel, d1, walk back.

Get a score of 10/10 correct reads on hidden random playback if you do, i will accept any counter argument you guys present and will shut up about this.
If you get hit by TP i win
if you get hit by B143 i win
If you get poked out i win.
If you get thrown i win.

And sadly we can only record 4 options, because there is a third one which is walkback into b143 which beats ppl trying to react by poking with D1
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Eddy Wang said:
Skarlet TP recovery is 42 frames meter or not, Scorpion recovers at 22 frames its an offense teleport so instintively players will always block first before doing anything which puts scorpion's opponents in flawless block lock out, basically Scorpion gets in for free straight into a 50-50 where if he is right there is always an option you won't be able to block, either is cancel into throw, cancel into poke, cancel into walkback into mid, cancel into walk in to fake a throw and mid because no player here is reacting to a freaking 10f throw, or just let it rock and amplify which might still hit other players even after they block the first TP because they were trying to react to it.

All other characters can't just teleport into someone's back, their teleport its for escape purpose, Skarlet can only appear close to someone if she anticipates a long recovery projectile enough to put her into a punishing position, if she wants to appear on a different position than default she has to use meter and she still recovers at 42 frames, much different from Scorpion who can do it as late as possible and still punish, cancel and do whatever even without nothing on screen he always poses a risk.
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You know the options, so you make reads.

You can definitely react to 10f throw with 1 active frame.

Skarlet TP goes against the design of a zoner. The same argument people try to make against Scorpion’s TP.
 
NaughtySenpai

NaughtySenpai

Kombatant
Eddy Wang said:
Skarlet TP recovery is 42 frames meter or not, Scorpion recovers at 22 frames its an offense teleport so instintively players will always block first before doing anything which puts scorpion's opponents in flawless block lock out, basically Scorpion gets in for free straight into a 50-50 where if he is right there is always an option you won't be able to block, either is cancel into throw, cancel into poke, cancel into walkback into mid, cancel into walk in to fake a throw and mid because no player here is reacting to a freaking 10f throw, or just let it rock and amplify which might still hit other players even after they block the first TP because they were trying to react to it.

All other characters can't just teleport into someone's back, their teleport its for escape purpose, Skarlet can only appear close to someone if she anticipates a long recovery projectile enough to put her into a punishing position, if she wants to appear on a different position than default she has to use meter and she still recovers at 42 frames, much different from Scorpion who can do it as late as possible and still punish, cancel and do whatever even without nothing on screen he always poses a risk.
Click to expand...
Skarlet also has a variety of long range pokes, a 10f mid, a low projectile, a projectile that isn't a projectile, meterless 300 damage combos and self heal.

What does Scorpion have to open you up? A 13f stagger that's -2 on block.
You can't compare apples to oranges here. She has a completely different toolset and fucks Scorpion up in the mid and close range.

His stagger game in Reborn isn't even that good. You just keep mashing d1 after f3 until you get kbed, roll out and from now on the worst that can happen is that you get put full screen from the second hit of f34 an eat like 80 damage or whatever the value on that move is.
His stagger game is much more potent in Searing Rage, but that also comes at a much higher risk.

Go play a competent Geras, Erron or Sonya, then tell me the Scorpion "guessing game" is terrible.

Scorpion is just minding his business and making fun of your inability to play patient and smart, while those characters straight up put you in a blender.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Scoot Magee said:
10 frames plus however big the tech window is.
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The problem was never about guessing mixups if he gets in, he ALWAYS gets in either some like it or not, and my gripe with Scorpion is, he shouldn't be able to put ppl in that situation this easy.
I like his MKX teleport better because of this, if he does it while one was trying something and he cancels he gets a free punish or a free throw mix, he is basically rewarded by having good reactions, if he however just rolls with it, he is seen he is the one put under a mixup.

In MK11 he just gets behind anyone without this risk at all, he can just fucking decide "nah bitch time to 50-50 ya" and the opponent always have to make hard reads on him not only with TP hitting and getting canceled, but all other options that appear once he cancels.
 
K

kcd117

Kombatant
Every single teleport in this game is dumb, besides those like Noob's grounded one or Jade's imo.

Instead of discussing which one is more fucked up I think NRS should adjust them all so we don't have these fuck the neutral moves for free.

In Scorpion's case, imo his tp should be high so you don't need to keep randomly blocking in neutral, only amplifiable on startup to get rid of the 50/50 between regular and amplified after you block it, and stay on the same side 5 frames longer than it currently does so he can't just TP out of your + frames.
 
BlondeWolf411

BlondeWolf411

Cowboy Pioneer
Like I’m not even here to defend scorpion at this point but just to point out how ridiculous some of this sounds lol, scorpions teleport is full combo punishable both amp and not.

Go in practice mode and set him to switch back and forth between this so called mixup and tell me how it goes for you because I can guarantee if you character has a jab scorpion just got punished
 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
Why to people act like teleport being punishable is the issue with teleport at all hahahahaha

Spoiler its because he literally can sit back all day and punish anything and everything without committing to anything anywhere on the screen at any time, you can't even whiff string against the guy without dying.

Nobody cares about the block punish.
 
BlondeWolf411

BlondeWolf411

Cowboy Pioneer
Evil Canadian said:
"especially online", meaning it is also bad offline as well, just worse online(where its truly awful)

The things right there and you already took the quote out of context, shameful.
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I didn’t take it out of context he said especially online lol, if Burger King can’t beat random scorpions offline because of solely teleport maybe he might be washed considering he hasn’t won anything in a long time ?
 
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