General/Other - Kotal Kahn Discussing the Viability of Blood God and Sun God

[KeyserSoze]

Any if those would be OP

I completely disagree that (3) is OP. In fact, I don't believe blood totem should even disappear on hit in the first place. The first two are debatable. I think (1) might be OP, but (2) might just compensate for Blood God having extremely limited defensive options.

The other alternative for improving Blood God's defense is to buff parry somehow.

 

[Crayraven]

True, but it's still hella useful. I get the impression that Blood God was designed with the idea that parry is more effective than it actually is.

Blood god's design is more so similar to how a character is designed in a mmorpg than a fighting game.

 

[KeyserSoze]

i dont think his damage totem should give him armor; that'd be way too jarring considering he can already chip you really hard if he's got meter too. putting it on, say, blood totem or just making a fourth totem exclusively for armor would make more sense; for the former, because it would allow you to tank one hit and then lose your stored-up meter/health if you get hit again before the armor refresh.

the latter would probably be easier to handle outside of making a new model for a totem and adding some kind of graphic to Kotal himself just because one totem isn't being overloaded with benefits (though i think they ought to be outside of crystal, which should only offer increased damage. obsidian totem could provide chip immunity if they add an EX version, though then he might be far too similar to Unbreakable Sub-Zero but with more damage)

i still maintain that blood god needs armor if he wants to be able to have any measure of oki outside of blocking an unsafe wake-up/hoping they did something he can parry

I completely agree that some sort of armor would help Blood God, immeasurably. And I agree, giving crystal totem armor with meter would be OP. I'd be perfectly fine with either giving him armor with a fourth totem or giving him armor for a bar with one of the other two. (I think I would prefer the latter).

As for chip immunity, I actually meant to include that in my original post.

 

[Crayraven]

Any if those would be OP

I don't think so, in fact I don't think any of his suggestions would change anything with blood god at all. Blood god's problems are about the same as issues you see in mmorpgs. Characters with a lot of control and ability not to take direct hits are always more powerful than characters who get passive damage reduction buffs with no control. Characters who are have high damage but no control and mobility are again always worse than characters who are technically weaker but can hit often while minimizing the amount of times that you can hit them back thru spacing.

 

[GLoRToR]

"Sonya will never be viable."
- TYM Community 2011, MK9

 

[kabelfritz]

I don't agree. Anyone who knows the MU, should rush kotal kahn down immediately. Blood god can do nothing about it. In that scenario, its unlikely you will be able to summon obsidian totem. Even if you did it doesn't stop blood gods inability to deal with rush downs.

i dont know that much about rushdown vs bg, but he still has pretty good pokes so it shouldnt be free.

btw is there somewhere a list where is shown which negative strings are actually punishable? some push away so far on block that a -10 might as well be safe...

 

[Superi0rMagik]

It's a shame this is what the kotal forums have become

If only they knew how to use the character.

 

[GAV]

Sun God's Sun Choke Command Grab coupled with his speedy low jab makes it good.

Just learn the timing to chip into it. Start with two low jabs into the grab. Then, go one jab into it. Then, go three or four jabs and be ready to go into the grab, but if they jump away - just switch gears and punish.

Agreed that Sun God isn't as good for dealing with zoning, but this game makes it hard to zone. Just be patient enough to get ONE knockdown, then use the run and they'll have to guess correctly or make you a mistake to get back to zoning again.

If they get a step away from you, just use back one to close to jab/choke range again. If they get far, patiently approach them until they're back in your zone.

His anti-air punishment options aren't as good as Kung Lao's, but his moves all have very specific ranges and huge hitboxes - so anti-airing and punishing retreating opponents should come very easy once you play him a bit.

 

[KeyserSoze]

I don't think it would help. The best way to look at blood gods problems is to just look at his baseline moveset. The following problem become apparent:

* Lack of wake up, lack of armored attack, lack of mixups, special moves are slow, very hard to build meter.

Because of all that, blood god is at a severe disadvantage vs the rest of the cast. Some people tend to say that his big damage is the balancing factor, but i'll disagree. Since only one totem does that, the other two do not give damage. In other words, his big damage is just a possibility. That statement can also be turned around to say that blood god is balanced because of his ability to take -34% damage. But no one will say that. Because the damage reduction is ultimately unimportant. Part of taking less damage is making the opponent respect you another part of it is minimizing the amount of times you actually take damage. Blood god lacks both.

If totems were apart of sun god or war god, they would be extraordinary. However on their own, with a character that has a barebone moveset, they become below average.

I agree with a lot of your individual points, but I think your overall assessment is too pessimistic. Blood God is a few tweaks away from being an absolute monster.

Also, something as simple as giving him armor for a bar would make a big difference.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Btw, I still see a lot of people downplaying obsidian totem. I can't reiterate enough how underrated I believe it is.

 

[KeyserSoze]

If only they knew how to use the character.

 

[RYX]

"Sonya will never be viable."
- TYM Community 2011, MK9

sonya had armor doe

 

[Qwark28]

Start with two low jabs into the grab. Then, go one jab into it. Then, go three or four jabs and be ready to go into the grab, but if they jump away - just switch gears and punish.
.

This isn't a comedy forum FYI.

 

[GAV]

This isn't a comedy forum FYI.

Too many jokes flying around for the forum not to be comedy.

 

[GAV]

 

[Khaoz77]

If Sun God Choke did 20%-22% on level 3 it would be as good as War God...

 

[Belial]

I think if parry worked against air atacks and acutally did some damage they already would be playable at least in some MU's

 

[Qwark28]

awaiting droney sheep who dont know why people were getting hit by those mixups in
1
2
3

 

[Belial]

After playing ALOT with Blood God, which Mr.Aqua has inspired me to, I now believe that he only needs a couple of actually universal changes to be viable

- Parry should work against aerial moves or changed/improved somehow
Or/and EX air grab should actually work as AA (have armor?)
- f2 disadvantage reduced by 1

Some characters have too much control b/c of impossible to Anti Air aerial atacks (see Kung Jin) which makes that MU's dead on top of some other MU

That changes wont make BG anywhere better than mid-tier but I would at least pick him for some MUs which was probably what variations were intended for,

 

[Shufflez]

Would making F1B2, B14 and F2 slightly safer really be that bad though? I feel like a few frame changes to these strings and maybe a few other universal moves might benefit blood god and sun god alot more than it would war god as that variation already relies for the most part on the sword enders so it would just bring the other 2 variations more in line

I also just don't really get the design choice behind not giving Blood God and Sun God unique strings or atleast making what you gained in return strong enough to be equal in value to what you lose by putting down the sword seeing as your trading off the more options from war god for the less of blood god and sun god talking purely in number of moves here, not taking usefulness into account. Just a few thoughts, I'm fine playing Kotal as is but giving him a few options that don't get blown up by full combos will make him more viable down the line when this matchup unfamiliarity fades and we realise how limited our options really are.

 

[Belial]

b1 strings are already hitconfirmable on 1st hit pokes as the game evolve they will see more play and definitely will benefit WG much more than other variations
Variations gameplay is already dramatically different, there is no need to give them any unique strings

 

[Qwark28]

And our thread is now unlocked.

Lets hope discussion threads arent ever locked again for reasons such as people winning locals.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

And our thread is now unlocked.

Lets hope discussion threads arent ever locked again for reasons such as people winning locals.

Lets hope people don't title threads "X character will never be good." a month into a game's life.

 

[Qwark28]

As for pokes, I would make B14 safe and have it knock down. There is nearly no need to make any of his whiff punishing tools less - but what could be done is having a tool to check people with after 114 air throw, tired of having to D1.

B14 alone is -17, ex sunstone leaves a gap and b14 alone doesnt do enough damage. With a popup, it could at least be hitconfirmed into ex sunstone.

 

[Qwark28]

Lets hope people don't title threads "X character will never be good." a month into a game's life.

If in the future you need further help to fulfill your duties, the "change thread title" option is up-left in the "thread options" menu.