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General/Other - Kotal Kahn Discussing the Viability of Blood God and Sun God

Just picked up Kotal loving him better than Jax.I going switch my main to Kotal.The key with Kotal is you cant be in your face as much as Jax I have to play him more like NW from MK9.I play WG why more than any other variation because he seems have better rush down then other 2.I have not put in any time in lab yet with other 2 variation yet,but what im reading it about time I start Thanks TYM
 

LeeVanDam

Sun God Advocate
I read a lot of posts in here with crazy setups and reasons why BG and SG might be viable someday
So I want KK community to give up on them and just focus on War God for the sake of everyone, so that KK sees more crazy setups and more tournament play.

The two things that determine character sucess in FG are ability to force a reaction and ability to punish
1) Ability to force a reaction is a lot of things.
- You character has a good/safe mixup? This means your opponent just cannot allow you to get close and will be throwing things out.
- Does your character has that + on block normal that you can spam over and over again (see pre-patch Kano) until your opponent finally decides to try something
- Do you have a zoning move or far reaching normal that pushes your opponent back, so that he has to take some kind of risk to approach?
- Maybe you have nothing but a string that builds a lot of meter and leaves you safe to try again? Well your opponent definitely doesnt want to block it too often does he?
- Do you have a powerful armor move that keeps your opponent at check all the time, afraid to throw moves out?

Basically do you have ANY means of annoying your opponent?

2) Ability to punish is not just block punishment. Its an ablity to profit from a good read. You want to be able to extract damage from correct guesses and you want that damage to grow with the amount of effort it took to make that read (if you had to take a high risk, reward must be also high). If you block a mixup - you gotta punish. If you read a poke - you want to profit from it too. Did you just backdash to let that swing fly by? Get them before they can block. Do you see them jumping? Please teach them that ground is a far safer place to be. There should be a conditions which set your damage going. You will try to reach those and your opponent will try to work around them.

Combination of those is what also creates a comeback factor, that would allow you to take a couple of bad reads/mistakes and still come up on top in the end, making good reads later on.

How does Blood and Sun god fair in these aspects?

1) SG and BG doesnt have good mixup. In fact BG has NO mixup at all, while SG has mixup that has obnoxiously bad RR and completely unreliable and risky block pressure (as you can only throw-cancel from pokes and thus every poke becomes a gamble), his zoning is a joke (well you can buff your sundisks into 30% projectiles but it will still be a god damn shitty 30% projectile) his pokes are decent but do not convert to anything, b/c KK totally fails at...

2) punishment. SG and BG just DO NOT profit from reads. Where WG can take a hard read and counterpoke with b14 (and hitconfirm it into and overhead starter) and take that 35%+ your best bet is 2-3% or throw into non-existant pressure and wakeups. Where WG has a strong armor that is also a deterrent against hard to AA jumps and crossups SG and BG has ... mace parry? the worst parry in the game probably?
Their only hope is an extremely setup-heavy situations which must be achieved first to work, but no tools to achieve them are provided, eliminating any means for comeback to these variations.
I can understand where you're coming from partly, but I don't agree with your statement at all, at least with Sun God. I don't have any experience with Blood God yet, but I will talk about things that Blood God can get through the moves Sun and Blood God share.

1. A strike/command grab mix-up is always a good mix-up because the command grab has to be evaded. With a character who has an anti-air juggle starter (EX Anti-Air), a way to make the command throw eat counter pokes by giving it armor, and many ways to catch backdashing Sun God has plenty of other options besides the tick throw itself. Besides, cancelling the throw on block can still be jumped out of so you're better not using that too often and just doing a traditional tick set up.

2. Block pressure is better from normals for Kotal Kahn to begin with. Take the string 2,1,2. If you hit someone with d+1, they can't neutral duck the string and have to stand to block the overhead at the end. It's only -1 on block, so EVERY variation of Kotal Kahn gets to d+1 again with their only option being to try and armor out or d+1 you back. Trying anything else risks them being 1 frame off and eating 1,1,4, air throw which is safe on hit or block. That's a lot of block pressure (and a lot of meter!). War God can armor through their d+1 for a launcher, Sun and Blood God can normal parry and punish with 1,1,4 juggles. Sun God can also armor through with SGC. Blood God with the right totem deals 10% block damage from that sequence alone (and if you parry the d+1, which is reasonable with the totem out... they have to break the combo or they're probably dead). This kind of block pressure is what makes people sit and take the command grab after blocking or getting hit with d+1 without having to cancel.

Also, b+3,2 is still only -3 on block so much of the cast can't do anything about your pressure besides d+1. You can armor/parry through it, armor/EX parry through their follow up after d+1 (including command grabs for the EX parry since it's only 2 frame start up). Sun God can armor through counter attacks after a blocked f+1,2 with EX SGC, which makes people scared... and makes them respect you so you have an easier time moving in. Blood God could EX parry, which is riskier but even more damaging with the follow up.

Also, from 2,1,2 on block not only is d+4 amazing because it barely hits them and gives you time to run back in... in the corner you can 2,1,2 again and they HAVE to block! For War God, it makes d+4 scary because you can lame out with this... and then overhead once you're bored for the corner combo. Sun God still has the command grab because they can't move out of the corner, can't tech the grab, and level 3 puts them back into the corner!! You can still 1,1,4 them if they are button happy and for every version of Kotal Kahn that's going to be almost 50%.

If you're having fun with ranges, just standing 4 into Anti Air Throw for meter on block. It's still safe and the boot covers a lot of distance.

3. Hard read from the same b+1,4 gets Blood and Sun God at least 22% with EX Sun Stone, so we're not handicapped badly there either. The the corner, you can b+1,2,2 and hit confirm SGC... or EX Sun Stone on block to get advantage. Again, they have to standing block the over head.

b+1,4, EX Sun Stone, d+1, 1,1,4, EX Anti Air grab, whatever you want to finish with. Sun God gets 50% from this with the level 3 grab, and you don't even have to try to hit confirm it because on block it's one of the hardest things to interrupt. If you trade and Sun Stone hits them, you still get the juggle. You can also do this from b+1,2,2 on hit confirm in case they're not completely in the corner yet.


4. Every version of Kotal Kahn profits from reads with high damage combos. War God may have more opportunities to armor through stuff, but Kotal Kahn is not lacking with normal starters like f+2... 1,1,4... f+3,4... any stuff into EX Sun Stone in corner... blah blah blah. Kotal Kahn fares extremely well with whiff punishing due to his very fast walk speed. With the block pressure I listed above, you can walk backwards out of their opponent's d+1 attempt and f+2 them for huge damage. Block punishment with 1,1,4 or f+2, or b+1,1,2 is great since it gives us access to almost every reasonable pushback range on block. Blood and Sun God are going to have to commit to the parry just like War God commits to the armored attacks, it's not like either are safe if the opponent isn't attacking. Parry > 1,1,4, air throw hurts for no meter. Even if we have to backdash after a hard to punish AA we blocked, we still have an option. EX Anti Air grab does great versus cross up attacks though, I normally have more issues with it trading on far jump kicks than anything else. You can always comeback with Kotal Kahn, because his damage can make him extremely momentum based. One combo along with good poking can make anyone fall apart if they aren't careful.


I think War God is an AMAZING variation. However we don't even emphasis fundamentals to know whether it's leaps or bounds above every other variation. The difference between a free launcher due to armor and a free combo from parry is small. NRS made the armor version unsafe, so you're at risk just like we are. There are some matchups where the reach and mid/low mix up makes everything much easier, but other matchups can be even or worse because range doesn't matter. I love Sun God, and I know that Sun God takes more work than War God to succeed sometimes, but I refuse for you to tell me to give it up just because you haven't sat down with him to truly figure things out.

Blood Offering and Sun Ray have their place, and we've already determined that you can safely use them after certain juggles and the normal throw. That alone makes them not useless, but you need to work with them properly.

I agree with you that we all need to work hard and improve Kotal Kahn's technology, and I really believe we need to start with good use of normals. It's only going to make every variation better if we all have solid fundamentals. It'll make War God scarier because you'll need less use of the great mid/low mix up you have.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Thanks for letting me know. Which armor moves beat it consistently? It sounds like 2,1, air throw wouldn't be good either if that's the case.
Any of them IIRC. As long as the armor has two hits of armor.

Plus it is easiest to just backdash it most of the time.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
I can understand where you're coming from partly, but I don't agree with your statement at all, at least with Sun God. I don't have any experience with Blood God yet, but I will talk about things that Blood God can get through the moves Sun and Blood God share.

1. A strike/command grab mix-up is always a good mix-up because the command grab has to be evaded. With a character who has an anti-air juggle starter (EX Anti-Air), a way to make the command throw eat counter pokes by giving it armor, and many ways to catch backdashing Sun God has plenty of other options besides the tick throw itself. Besides, cancelling the throw on block can still be jumped out of so you're better not using that too often and just doing a traditional tick set up.

2. Block pressure is better from normals for Kotal Kahn to begin with. Take the string 2,1,2. If you hit someone with d+1, they can't neutral duck the string and have to stand to block the overhead at the end. It's only -1 on block, so EVERY variation of Kotal Kahn gets to d+1 again with their only option being to try and armor out or d+1 you back. Trying anything else risks them being 1 frame off and eating 1,1,4, air throw which is safe on hit or block. That's a lot of block pressure (and a lot of meter!). War God can armor through their d+1 for a launcher, Sun and Blood God can normal parry and punish with 1,1,4 juggles. Sun God can also armor through with SGC. Blood God with the right totem deals 10% block damage from that sequence alone (and if you parry the d+1, which is reasonable with the totem out... they have to break the combo or they're probably dead). This kind of block pressure is what makes people sit and take the command grab after blocking or getting hit with d+1 without having to cancel.

Also, b+3,2 is still only -3 on block so much of the cast can't do anything about your pressure besides d+1. You can armor/parry through it, armor/EX parry through their follow up after d+1 (including command grabs for the EX parry since it's only 2 frame start up). Sun God can armor through counter attacks after a blocked f+1,2 with EX SGC, which makes people scared... and makes them respect you so you have an easier time moving in. Blood God could EX parry, which is riskier but even more damaging with the follow up.

Also, from 2,1,2 on block not only is d+4 amazing because it barely hits them and gives you time to run back in... in the corner you can 2,1,2 again and they HAVE to block! For War God, it makes d+4 scary because you can lame out with this... and then overhead once you're bored for the corner combo. Sun God still has the command grab because they can't move out of the corner, can't tech the grab, and level 3 puts them back into the corner!! You can still 1,1,4 them if they are button happy and for every version of Kotal Kahn that's going to be almost 50%.

If you're having fun with ranges, just standing 4 into Anti Air Throw for meter on block. It's still safe and the boot covers a lot of distance.

3. Hard read from the same b+1,4 gets Blood and Sun God at least 22% with EX Sun Stone, so we're not handicapped badly there either. The the corner, you can b+1,2,2 and hit confirm SGC... or EX Sun Stone on block to get advantage. Again, they have to standing block the over head.

b+1,4, EX Sun Stone, d+1, 1,1,4, EX Anti Air grab, whatever you want to finish with. Sun God gets 50% from this with the level 3 grab, and you don't even have to try to hit confirm it because on block it's one of the hardest things to interrupt. If you trade and Sun Stone hits them, you still get the juggle. You can also do this from b+1,2,2 on hit confirm in case they're not completely in the corner yet.


4. Every version of Kotal Kahn profits from reads with high damage combos. War God may have more opportunities to armor through stuff, but Kotal Kahn is not lacking with normal starters like f+2... 1,1,4... f+3,4... any stuff into EX Sun Stone in corner... blah blah blah. Kotal Kahn fares extremely well with whiff punishing due to his very fast walk speed. With the block pressure I listed above, you can walk backwards out of their opponent's d+1 attempt and f+2 them for huge damage. Block punishment with 1,1,4 or f+2, or b+1,1,2 is great since it gives us access to almost every reasonable pushback range on block. Blood and Sun God are going to have to commit to the parry just like War God commits to the armored attacks, it's not like either are safe if the opponent isn't attacking. Parry > 1,1,4, air throw hurts for no meter. Even if we have to backdash after a hard to punish AA we blocked, we still have an option. EX Anti Air grab does great versus cross up attacks though, I normally have more issues with it trading on far jump kicks than anything else. You can always comeback with Kotal Kahn, because his damage can make him extremely momentum based. One combo along with good poking can make anyone fall apart if they aren't careful.


I think War God is an AMAZING variation. However we don't even emphasis fundamentals to know whether it's leaps or bounds above every other variation. The difference between a free launcher due to armor and a free combo from parry is small. NRS made the armor version unsafe, so you're at risk just like we are. There are some matchups where the reach and mid/low mix up makes everything much easier, but other matchups can be even or worse because range doesn't matter. I love Sun God, and I know that Sun God takes more work than War God to succeed sometimes, but I refuse for you to tell me to give it up just because you haven't sat down with him to truly figure things out.

Blood Offering and Sun Ray have their place, and we've already determined that you can safely use them after certain juggles and the normal throw. That alone makes them not useless, but you need to work with them properly.

I agree with you that we all need to work hard and improve Kotal Kahn's technology, and I really believe we need to start with good use of normals. It's only going to make every variation better if we all have solid fundamentals. It'll make War God scarier because you'll need less use of the great mid/low mix up you have.
Im guilty of downplaying sungod and bloodgod, i know,...but damn this was a great post you made. Good stuff man.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
@LeeVanDam, I respect and understand your passion for your character/variation (ditto to the other BG and SG advocates). And if you just want to play for fun, or perhaps place well at a local, or even maybe get into the top 25% of a major with the right draws, then more power to you: use what you love. However, if we're talking about winning a major, or at least getting paid out, which I believe is the point of this thread, then BG and SG are not viable choices. WG, which I main, can hopefully make it, but even he might cap out at top 8.

When money is on the line, a good number of people, especially those that are skilled and hoping to make a living at this game, will gravitate toward characters that give them the greatest chance of winning. It's not so much a question of how Kotal's variations stack up to each other, but how Kotal stacks up to the rest of the cast, and right now, Kotal is lacking. If he wasn't, if he provided easy wins, then we would see people picking him in droves, like Kung Jin and Sub, or we would see top players using him at tournaments, like Quan. These aren't the only good characters of course, we've seen Raiden, D'Vorah, Sonya, Kano, Erron, and Ermac perform well (though I doubt the last). What has Kotal accomplished in comparison? Very little so far. Don't get me wrong, HUGE props to Mr. Aquaman and Pnut, and others, who have shown that there is potential with this character, but obviously, it's not as easy as other character choices, otherwise we'd be seeing more people play him or more top level players, who are more concerned with a paycheck than character loyalty, experimenting with him.

Are these trends and results the only things that determine Kotal's, or other's, viability? Of course not, but they do provide information regarding the situation. Could there be undiscovered tech? Of course, the game is just over a month old. However, if we take as a given that Kotal is not currently an "easy win" character, then that means we need to pick a variation that gives us the greatest chance of catching up to characters with more obvious/better tools. With that in mind, as others have said, Kotal is an up close character, no matter which variation, so the one that provides the most options, on both offense and defense is best.

Blood God:
Offense- Overheads and lows are limited to combo strings/unique attacks, and while Kotal has both, the only time he could 50/50 the opponent would be on the first hit (B2 or F3). Since both are relatively slow attacks, especially B2, which gets stuffed by lows that look like they shouldn't connect, this 50/50 will often be avoided. Even if it hits, B2 doesn't lead to a combo, and while F3 does, this combo string is very limited for BG and SG, unless they give up a bar, which isn't ideal, due to the lost resource and because it moves the opponent away, when Kotal usually wants to be close. He also has a throw, which, as people have said, when buffed with the damage totem does more than SG's choke, but the totems aren't the best because, one, you have to find a time to set them, and, two, you can't refresh them whenever you want. This second is a BIG hindrance, as it means you're beholden to a set cool down, instead of the actual pace of the match. He of course has good punishes against back dashes and moves with long recoveries, but that's the same across variations, and if we're factoring in the totem, the same problem with it exists as said above. All in all, BG's offense is very poor, with few options.
Defense- BG's only unique defense, compared to WG, is the parry, which, unfortunately, isn't very good. If the parry worked differently, perhaps it could be as consistently useful as WG's enhanced overhead sword or SG's enhanced choke, but as it is, the damage boost lasts too short a time to capitalize with much and often the attack can be avoided, blocked, or it will get stuffed by the next hit of the opponent's move/string. This means BG's defense is just as lacking as his offense, with his only options being things that both other variations have.
Overview- We all agree that BG can shell out massive damage (the combo videos exist to prove it!), but that's not going to matter if you can't get a hit or can't get the opponent off of you.

Sun God:
Offense- the only difference here is of course his sun choke and scorch. Having a command grab definitely gives Kotal another way to open the opponent. However, as MANY have said, the damage on it is abysmal. Plus, at level 3, it throws the opponent away, which is again where Kotal usually doesn't want to be. Perhaps it would be worth it if the meter/life return was useful, but it's so slow to come out and provides so little back, many SG players don't even use it.
Defense- again, the choke features, because it can be enhanced for armor. This does provide a much more reliable "get off me" than the parry, but, as always, does very little damage and, at level 3, where many players keep it, doesn't lead to oki.
Overview- having a command grab is nice, but due to NRS not being sure how to balance it, it's one of the worst ones out there (i.e. speed, damage, recovery). Even with it, SG still faces many of the same challenges BG does.

War God:
Offense- the sword gives him range (which Mr. Aquaman put to good use against Tom Brady), overheads/lows, and safe enders for his strings (though, of course, the opponent can armor through before the special, but then you can armor back with a two hitting move that starts a 30%+ combo).
Defense- he has armor on most of his moves, but the two important ones are enhanced overhead sword and enhanced sword shake (sword sweep can also help when they become conditioned to the overhead, but I prefer the shake). The overhead catches down-backers, which is ingrained in so many of us, and as stated above deals a big chunk of damage. It is punishable (it would be nearly broken if not), but the threat of it checks many players. Sword shake is unblockable, but it's true strength is that it can be canceled, leaving you with a nearly safe, armored wakeup, much like Kabal used to have in MK9. Not as good mind you, but similar.
Overview- the sword gives Kotal the ability to open people up and defend himself, as well as make his strings much safer, in a way that the other two variations don't come close to, which is why, if you want to win, and you want to play Kotal, this is the variation to pick.

Please know, the point of this post is not to inflame, though it might have that result with some, but hopefully to save people time. Looking back, at previous FGs I've played competitively (SF4, MK9, SFxT, and UMVC 3), in most of them, I wish I hadn't been as stubborn about my character choice, and instead picked someone that would have given me an easier chance of winning, since I don't have the time to be a Pro Gamer, but still want to compete. Hopefully, this thread will help some of you avoid the same mistake, though, at the end of the day, it's all about doing what makes you happy, so ask yourself what it is you want to get out of your time with MKX and that will help you decide what character/variation to play. Honestly, I hope I'm wrong about BG and SG, as I'd love some variety, and BG is hella fun to play.

Sorry for the crazy long post. I'm delayed on a train to Chicago for Combo Breaker and don't have much else to do, lol. Speaking of, good luck to all my fellow Kotals, regardless of which variation you choose to use! =)
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I don't understand why someone using sun god wouldn't use the command grab. Why did you pick this variation then?
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
One thing I can write with unwavering certainty is that I absolutely love playing Blood God and will never drop him.. The totems are just too swaggy and fun to ever let go. And to be honest, same with Sun God. The Sun Choke brutality is arguably the most hype finishing move in the entire game. And second place? Probably the sun ray brutality, lol. I am committed to making both variations work - no matter what.

I go back and forth in my head on the ultimate competitive viability of both variations, but I never sway in my passion for them. They are so much fun. I'm very excited to see what we can do as a community with them, in the long run. And maybe, just maybe, they get some buffs along the way.
 

Belial

Noob
Very well, I shall answer

1. His air grab does not work reliably as AA, it is worse than uppercut in that regard, if try to AA with EX version you will take hit and lose meter. (while war god can reliably aa crossups and jump kicks with his db1)
Command grab is bad way to "eat counterpokes". it is just as punishable on wiff or read as any other armor in the game, but it deals twice less damage than war gods db1 (16 to 32) and to even reach this number you will require to first land this throw twice.

2. 212 string not only does very poor damage, but also is punishable via amored specials between 2nd and 3d hits, many character punish regardless if you stop or end the sting, only variation that can somehow make it safe is War God.
You cannot punish most pokes, including d+1 by parry into 114. The parry is just really useless right now so no point defending it. One example of how bad it is compared to armored db1 of War God would be Kung Jin b14 string - War God will armor through it for full combo, where parry will wiff 50% of the time instead of actually parrying the sting and leave you open to punishment.

f12 is not safe. As well as f2 and f1b2 , the only variation that can make some moves "safer" is War God

d+4 doesnt lead to any pressure for Sun or Blood God and deals 3%, most other chars can get more damage off blockstrings

b+2 the overhead is not a mixup with d+4 or anything, due to being very slow. It is a gimick at best, which only deals 9% by the way. Having to take a couple of consecutive guesses just to deal something between 12 and 20% damage doesnt sound right.

3. 1 bar for 22% combos where war god has 35%? Like 21 series many characters get a guaranteed armored punishment here. This is the only string that can be helped with parry in some MU. Sadly , War God options are just much, much better here.

4. f+2 is not safe, f3,4 is another 24% combo for 1 bar. Grats we're just step behind shinnok damage. You cannot walk back and punish 99% pokes with f+2 b/c its slow and b/c many d+4 has enough range to contain you. All these "advantages" are available to War God as well, but he doesnt suffer the downsides.

To sum it up, please stop defending the mess Sun and Blood God are. They are not even close to being viable even now, when people are not punishing most of your moves. Once they get to it the gap between War God and other variations will keep growing. Some MUs will become really bad for Kotal, besides punishment exposure all variations suffer from zoners, and by lucky coincidence War God is also best suited to deal with zoners.
 
Blood God:
Offense- Overheads and lows are limited to combo strings/unique attacks, and while Kotal has both, the only time he could 50/50 the opponent would be on the first hit (B2 or F3). Since both are relatively slow attacks, especially B2, which gets stuffed by lows that look like they shouldn't connect, this 50/50 will often be avoided. Even if it hits, B2 doesn't lead to a combo, and while F3 does, this combo string is very limited for BG and SG, unless they give up a bar, which isn't ideal, due to the lost resource and because it moves the opponent away, when Kotal usually wants to be close. He also has a throw, which, as people have said, when buffed with the damage totem does more than SG's choke, but the totems aren't the best because, one, you have to find a time to set them, and, two, you can't refresh them whenever you want. This second is a BIG hindrance, as it means you're beholden to a set cool down, instead of the actual pace of the match. He of course has good punishes against back dashes and moves with long recoveries, but that's the same across variations, and if we're factoring in the totem, the same problem with it exists as said above. All in all, BG's offense is very poor, with few options.
Defense- BG's only unique defense, compared to WG, is the parry, which, unfortunately, isn't very good. If the parry worked differently, perhaps it could be as consistently useful as WG's enhanced overhead sword or SG's enhanced choke, but as it is, the damage boost lasts too short a time to capitalize with much and often the attack can be avoided, blocked, or it will get stuffed by the next hit of the opponent's move/string. This means BG's defense is just as lacking as his offense, with his only options being things that both other variations have.
Overview- We all agree that BG can shell out massive damage (the combo videos exist to prove it!), but that's not going to matter if you can't get a hit or can't get the opponent off of you.
i like how you dont even mention damage reduction totem in the defense section. it should always be your default choice in the neutral.
 
i like how you dont even mention damage reduction totem in the defense section. it should always be your default choice in the neutral.
Obsidian totem is good, but it doesn't do anything but delay the inevitable. Blood god's offensive and defensive capability is barebone, making it so totems really don't provide the amount of depth they deserve. I'd take armor over the damage reduction, its more practical, more useful.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
i like how you dont even mention damage reduction totem in the defense section. it should always be your default choice in the neutral.
this, his obsidian totem is actually really useful in case you get punished, especially when there are a lot of characters who can match your damage or exceed it (D'vorah, Scorpion, etc)

Obsidian totem is good, but it doesn't do anything but delay the inevitable. Blood god's offensive and defensive capability is barebone, making it so totems really don't provide the amount of depth they deserve. I'd take armor over the damage reduction, its more practical, more useful.
i wouldn't, i'd prefer having them both in his kit but not simultaneously, as much of a wet dream that would be

maybe NRS ought to make a fourth totem for armor
 
Obsidian totem is good, but it doesn't do anything but delay the inevitable. Blood god's offensive and defensive capability is barebone, making it so totems really don't provide the amount of depth they deserve. I'd take armor over the damage reduction, its more practical, more useful.
Obsidian opens up a new layer of mindgames, especially in combination with sunbeam and chest cut. the opponent will have to open you up multiple times but better not get touched once himself. how is he gonna behave? this is where bg kotals game starts imo and you can make use of stuff like his unsafe normals and the parry. its pure mindfuckery.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
I didn't mention obsidian totem for the reason others have said: it's not going to get anyone off of you, unlike armored moves. True, you will survive longer, but that's only if you can get it out when you want, which, again, due to refresh rate, as well as recovery, is limited. BG is great in theory, if you could have the right totems at the right times, but that's just not how actual matches play.
 
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Obsidian opens up a new layer of mindgames, especially in combination with sunbeam and chest cut. the opponent will have to open you up multiple times but better not get touched once himself. how is he gonna behave? this is where bg kotals game starts imo and you can make use of stuff like his unsafe normals and the parry. its pure mindfuckery.
I don't agree. Anyone who knows the MU, should rush kotal kahn down immediately. Blood god can do nothing about it. In that scenario, its unlikely you will be able to summon obsidian totem. Even if you did it doesn't stop blood gods inability to deal with rush downs.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
I doubt NRS would introduce an armor totem on top of what he already has, but what if:

1) Crystal totem gave you armor for a bar.

2) Obsidian totem allowed you to take 45% less damage, instead of the standard 34%, for a bar.

3) Blood totem didn't disappear when you were hit, when enhanced with a bar.

IMO, just the first one would help him dramatically. Would all three be OP?
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
I doubt NRS would introduce an armor totem on top of what he already has, but what if:

1) Crystal totem gave you armor for a bar.

2) Obsidian totem allowed you to take 45% less damage, instead of the standard 34%, for a bar.

3) Blood totem didn't disappear when you were hit, when enhanced with a bar.

IMO, just the first one would help him dramatically. Would all three be OP?
Any if those would be OP
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
I didn't mention obsidian totem for the reason others have said: it's not going to get anyone off of you, unlike armored moves..
True, but it's still hella useful. I get the impression that Blood God was designed with the idea that parry is more effective than it actually is.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
I doubt NRS would introduce an armor totem on top of what he already has, but what if:

1) Crystal totem gave you armor for a bar.

2) Obsidian totem allowed you to take 45% less damage, instead of the standard 34%, for a bar.

3) Blood totem didn't disappear when you were hit, when enhanced with a bar.

IMO, just the first one would help him dramatically. Would all three be OP?
i dont think his damage totem should give him armor; that'd be way too jarring considering he can already chip you really hard if he's got meter too. putting it on, say, blood totem or just making a fourth totem exclusively for armor would make more sense; for the former, because it would allow you to tank one hit and then lose your stored-up meter/health if you get hit again before the armor refresh.

the latter would probably be easier to handle outside of making a new model for a totem and adding some kind of graphic to Kotal himself just because one totem isn't being overloaded with benefits (though i think they ought to be outside of crystal, which should only offer increased damage. obsidian totem could provide chip immunity if they add an EX version, though then he might be far too similar to Unbreakable Sub-Zero but with more damage)

i still maintain that blood god needs armor if he wants to be able to have any measure of oki outside of blocking an unsafe wake-up/hoping they did something he can parry
 
I doubt NRS would introduce an armor totem on top of what he already has, but what if:

1) Crystal totem gave you armor for a bar.

2) Obsidian totem allowed you to take 45% less damage, instead of the standard 34%, for a bar.

3) Blood totem didn't disappear when you were hit, when enhanced with a bar.

IMO, just the first one would help him dramatically. Would all three be OP?
I don't think it would help. The best way to look at blood gods problems is to just look at his baseline moveset. The following problem become apparent:

* Lack of wake up, lack of armored attack, lack of mixups, special moves are slow, very hard to build meter.

Because of all that, blood god is at a severe disadvantage vs the rest of the cast. Some people tend to say that his big damage is the balancing factor, but i'll disagree. Since only one totem does that, the other two do not give damage. In other words, his big damage is just a possibility. That statement can also be turned around to say that blood god is balanced because of his ability to take -34% damage. But no one will say that. Because the damage reduction is ultimately unimportant. Part of taking less damage is making the opponent respect you another part of it is minimizing the amount of times you actually take damage. Blood god lacks both.

If totems were apart of sun god or war god, they would be extraordinary. However on their own, with a character that has a barebone moveset, they become below average.